Societal norms/relationship norms.

[187coopa]

Hey everyone this is a bit self centered but idk this is gonna be hard to explain but please read this.

Im grasping for the words on how to explain this but im not reaching them so im just gonna let it roll.

Im 25 a lil underacheiving atm but meh w/e. Ne ways the concept of life steps, get job, get home, meet woman, marry woman, have kids. thats cool and it sounds ok but beneath the surface of this mantra is what i dont understand.

I just went from meeting the freest spirited person ive ever saw just in general. Carefree spontaneous unafraid to broach serious topics and deep feelings. it was amazing and an eye opener. To someone i feel that i cant broach that kinda free spirited/deep talking stuff to. maybe that will change but our interactions are just sorta bland in some ways i mean the attraction is there but back on point.

Thinking about this sorta got me thinking deeper about just normal human interaction. When were home alone were free no pressure no standards to hold. but in one way or another theres things we hold back or deem innapropriate to express when in company.

I wanna tear that shit down with every person i meet some i do very rarely but it isnt 100 percent theres still some things i dont express or share n what not.

Is there a so called bubble to break to just be free be 100 percent expressive and not the man behind the curtain deciding what should be announced and what should be saved.

I guess i get lost in my own head and the total bullshit that is modern society, how to act how not to. the fake ass bullshit that holds our society together. i see thru it. but with other people i put the goggles on and play along.

And it bothers me so much that even in an intimate relationship i keep those damn goggles on always gauging what to do and what not to do. ITS EXHAUSTING.

How do you break free of that it could be a self esteem issue but i really dont think it is. I love myself but at the same time i can be very jaded. and i think it comes from realizing how much bullshit the so called "1st world" is.. how main stream media brainwashes us to act a certain way.

I guess you could compare me to a younger more naive Micheal ruppert. In how i think act and respond to stuff. thats me on the inside but i project a less volatile and dumber version of me to people not so much close friends but acquaintances etc. More sheepish and intune with how society expects us to act.

back to the relationship thing tho, its like im afraid i'll push the girl away and that girl that i mentioned earlier Man ive never opened up to someone as much as i did. i'd say i was 95to100 percent that person you are when your alone around her and it was amazing but o so scarey all at the same time. In the end things didnt work out me being 100 percent myself might have had something to do with it but there were other factors to that also.

Its just so hard for me to relax let it all go and just be carefree even tho its the one thing that brings me most clarity and zen.

Theres 2 versions of me in a nutshell. The dude talking to you right now. Me when im around others in a social setting funny, charming, witty but very shallow in regards to social interaction.

I guess im trying to explain this as a philosophical side to things if that makes any sense. And i guess the one thing that im searching for in life is someone that those barriers arent present. just a lazy float on a warm sunny day down a river free of all stress thats the epitome of a relationship i want i mean it cant be like that everyday but to have that connection of pure love and knowing you got that at the end of the day after all the bills, commitments, and other stuff. To know that you give that to someone else in return. What a true joy. Ever since i had a taste of it with my ex, and man was it a thrill Its amazing to know that that connection is truly out there but its scarey to also think that maybe that was it, maybe it wont come back around, if it doesnt thats ok too and if im single for the rest of my life thats ok too. but i know i wont ever stop looking for that which was nirvana to me.

Whew i had to get that out of me Thanks bluelight!!!

 

[spacejunk]

How do you break free of that it could be a self esteem issue but i really dont think it is. I love myself but at the same time i can be very jaded. and i think it comes from realizing how much bullshit the so called "1st world" is.. how main stream media brainwashes us to act a certain way.

I think I understand your question...personally I like to think I live happily outside of society's more oppressive social norms.
Psychedelics helped me see through the sheen of bullshit cast on the world and its reflection as depicted in the mass media.
It's all a personal journey - especially if you find there is a significant - and troubling - difference between the 'public' and 'private' sides of your personality.

It seems to be of particular importance to be conscious of the thoughts and perspectives you allow into your conscious mind. Most social norms nowadays are created - or at least propagated - by corporate media and mainstream forms of entertainment - at least in the secular world.

Study - both personal and academic - also helped me critically analyse - and deliberately reject - some the contemporary norms that had no use or relevance to me.
Philosophy - phenomenology and existentialism, as well as some post-structuralist theory were of particular interest to me - but any sort of social science or cultural studies discipline will be deeply involved in investigating - and possibly tearing apart - social mores and norms.
I got a great deal of perspective on the subject of interpersonal relations from Gender Studies (topics from feminism [oops - look out, i said the 'f work' ! fuck!] to pornography, heteronormativity and sex).

Not that I subscribe or adhere to any one of these ways of thinking or analysis - but they can be useful tools for arriving at a perspective on life/society/culture that works for you. Or a range of perspectives - why limit yourself?

My personal feeling is that intellectual autonomy is far more interesting and desirable than faithfully embracing a particular theory, stereotype or label. This is just trading one norm for another, right?
This is all a bit broad and non-specific...but if being categorised (or constantly comparing yourself to externally defined ideals) is weighing heavily upon you, it can't hurt to throw yourself into whatever philosophical/theoretical/political (or other) reading or intellectual pursuits appeal to your curiosity.
There is a really wide range of modern and traditional thought out there - knowledge and deliberate thought or lifestyle experiments can be really freeing in the sense that they expose you to other ways of thinking and being.

I find that the reflections on life that come from radically different cultural perspectives or time periods - whether it is philosophy, poetry, prose or other forms of art and expression - can really free your mind from the weight of cultural expectations.

To this ends, travel may be an even more powerful vehicle for self-realisation and reflection, if that is possible in your current situation.

Finally, though, is the simplest way to disengage from vacuous western trash culture and the oppressive expectations that come with it - rid your life of television (if you haven't already)! It's the best thing I ever did.

I might be totally misunderstanding what you are trying to achieve or ask advice on - but to continue with this little monologue - it takes the right sort of companions to appreciate a human being that does not fit a neat category or classification.

Is it open, uninhibited interpersonal relationships you are looking to find - or opening up of existing relationships?

Or a change in yourself (or is it both - or one leading to the other?)

Do you have any older friends? I have always kept a variety of company - of all kinds of ages and from different walks of life - and find that conventionally judgemental people just aren't in my social sphere.
Perhaps these yardsticks of achievement and material success become less important as we get older? For some people they get more entrenched (and perpetuated) with age - but these folks are probably less outgoing and open to mixing with younger people, just as some younger people don't consider hanging out with people much older than them.

Non-conformity is not a very satisfying end in itself - but turning your back on specific social norms can be very liberating, especially if you find the complications of expectation are weighing heavily upon you - exhausting, as you describe it.
Love within this context of doing what you want to do at your own pace is likely to be less burdened with artificially pre-defined life trajectories weighing upon you.

I'm not sure if this little ramble is of any use to you - or even close to the topic you are referring to...but it's totally within everybody's reach to live according to your own thoughts, feelings and preferred timeframe.
Well, unless you have already made significant commitments to living a certain life, which it doesn't sound like you do. 'Putting down roots' has pretty clear pros and cons, depending on what you want from life.
If you're not ready for this - to 'settle down' - then fuck labels like "underachiever" right off!

It can take a bit of deliberate manoeuvring to free yourself from the social and material shackles placed upon us by various influences - and it may cause awkwardness or uncertainty amongst your friends and/or family to see you defying conventional expectations - but if they have your best interests at heart, they'll get over it and accept you for who you are.
They may well end up respecting you more - especially if you become a happier person - which seems to be some part of the objective here (or at least a pretty desirable outcome).

It takes a certain courage to live by your own terms - but frankly, it can be a very attractive quality to be free-spirited; so even if you confuse some people in the process, I would be willing to bet that you'll be open to meeting and connecting with a lot more people than you may be able to, if you're in a state of internal conflict.

I hope this has made some kind of sense?!
Living how you want to live your life is very healthy, from my (non-medical!) perspective.
Good luck - and have fun. It seems like that is what you want, and why shouldn't you?

 

[sexNcandy]

I would absolutely never recommend psychedelics to anyone, so don't take this the wrong way. But they've helped some people deal with stuff like that, specially the barriers that you mention you feel. So I think there might be some insight to be gained from trip reports and also reading peoples experiences with it and what they learned regarding social aspects. Also applies to mdma and other drugs.

In the end, it's all in your head. And this is a battle only you can fight for yourself

 

[spacejunk]

In the end, it's all in your head. And this is a battle only you can fight for yourself

Good advice. The ol' "it's all in your head" cure. Good success rate.

I would absolutely never recommend psychedelics to anyone, so don't take this the wrong way. But they've helped some people deal with stuff like that, specially the barriers that you mention you feel.

OP is a big boy, he can make his own choices.
Also, someone that posts in PD on occasion - about their experiences with psychedelics - is probably pretty safe, y'know?
I would recommend psychedelics in such an instance. They can really work wonders. I don't use words like "miracle drug" very often. Actually, I never say "miracle". But psychedelics are pretty great when it comes to working through something like this.
I don't recommend MDMA, personally - but each to their own.

This cat is troubled by the bullshit associated with rigid social norms; a good candidate for psychedelic medicine, I would've thought.
But, y'know - I was tripping, so it seemed worth throwing out there. Hehe.

 

[sexNcandy]

Spacedunk, it's funny you answer me as if I had somehow made a comment on what you said, but the truth is I didn't even read your post. I wasn't aware you even mentioned psychedelics, I just thought of it but found fit to say I wouldn't recommend it, because well, I think it's a fucked up thing to do.

 

[Mitchi]

I've thought about this "being yourself" stuff too. Psychedelics have had much influence. My conclusions were that you can not be yourself, it will not be accepted in society. You need the social mask, you can't escape it. There is no salvation.

I think Foucault is pretty good at describing this stuff. Also Allan Watts if you just want some Youtubing. Watts drank himself to death, and Foucault tried suicide some times . But maybe this is not what you are asking for. I agree with spacejunk in reading something about feminism. Its most important to men.

 

[187coopa]

thanks forthe replies guys. this is just something ive always kept to myself but glad im not the only one lol.

mitchi you hit the nail on the head.

And yes psychadelics have a huge impact on this i feel.

I used to dabble in mushrooms, acid, and many other enthogens.

The last time i ever used a psychadelic was what i thought was acid it def wasnt i think it was an AMT analogue. Ne ways i experienced true ego death one of the most bizarre feelings ever. Ever since then my relationships have been very different,

and opened up this whole side of my existence that i describe above. Maybe finding a woman or another soul who has gone thru the same experience would help lol.

The social mask sucks... well unless im drunk then its game on Idk what it was but im the most charming smart person esp with ladies lol. Might be because it dulls that inner voice to near silence.

 

[JWills20]

Join the club pal. I'm hoping that one day I'll meet someone who understands some of the concepts you raise, and therefore understands me.

I certainly think it's a correlate of psychedelic drug use. We were probably all pretty open-minded in the first place, hence why we chose to try 'bad' drugs, of which these drugs perpetuate and open our minds even further, until we become very distant from the norm. My drug was MDMA, and while it's not a true psychedelic, it's caused a similar effect to what you talk about. In a sense I kind of regret it, because y'know 'ignorance is bliss' but at the same time I am a more psychologically healthy person because of it. Shock horror, drugs benefited my psychology, who would've thought it ey? Those killer drugs ruining society actually helped me.

I'm a little scared that if I tried 'harder' psychedelics, I'll drift even further away from society. One day perhaps.

 

[swampdragon]

This is one of the more interesting threads I've read on BL in a while (and I read a lot!) so respect for that, 187. Also spacejunk's reply is spot on.

It's something that I also spend time pondering and may be correlated with heavier psychedelic use, though even prior to psychedelic times I've been fascinated by 'hippy lifestyles' and alternative societies etc. I hate having to hold back from saying things because it's not the "done thing".. it is indeed exhausting. These days I find it helps to have friends that are part of hippy/psytrance scenes - it's really refreshing to have a cuddle and philosophical chats without having to worry about boundaries etc.

As for the OP, just be yourself around the girl (and everyone else). You sound like an interesting person, better to be that than exhaust yourself with boring interactions.

 

[187coopa]

Thanks, a bit of an update, after i made this thread. things have seemed to take a change for a better. Were really starting to connect even tho its not all the way there as of yet, really feel things are coming together and were getting more comfortable. atleast i am lol.