Mental Health Societal causes of anxiety and depression. Was it always this way?

[caseface99]

(I'm sort of sleep deprived and I'm guessing I got sort of repetitive when I typed this up just now - I'll edit in the morning and consolidate if i did in fact repeat myself a bunch of times. I tend to do that a lot when sleep deprived. - Ironically, insomnia most likely being one of the illnesses that exists because of societal influences)

So I wanted to start this thread in order to discuss Anxiety, depression, and other related mental illness - specifically in the context that these illnesses could be societally created issues. I'm interested to see peoples opinions about whether or not they think we have always been prone to these mental illnesses on an epidemic scale. It is my belief that modern society and modern psychiatry, in a sense have created these conditions. I think that the whole way society has been structured, technology, ways of living, the workforce structure, the economic structure, the class structure, etc. have all lead to what could possibly be simple problems being exsasterbated into major issues. Along with modern psychiatry ever looking for more and more issues that they can label and diagnose. I am not saying that psychiatric labels represent something fake that nobody really suffers from, but rather that the system is counter productive and causes more harm than good. The entire system, not just medical but as I have said the entire structure of the modern world is what I believe to be the main cause of depression and anxiety and related illnesses.

I am very interested to see if anybody knows about any data concerning similar illnesses and how common it was for people to suffer from them, before modern psychiatry. So at least a few hundred years back and beyond. However I'm not sure if any such research/evidence even exists - and if it does it would probably be obscure and appear totally unrelated since, well, they didn't have the labels I mentioned. If any such data exists I would be willing to bet that the numbers of people who suffer from these illnesses back then were much, much lower than they are today.

aside from societal causes, biological causes definitely have a place in this discussion. I will admit that I have not researched the topic in a few years now, and that what I did read a while back could have possibly been out of date - however If I recall, there isn't actually much evidence concerning neurotransmitter imbalances being responsible. It's a complete normal thing to toss around as fact, but has anybody actually seen proof that it's caused by neurotransmitter deficiencies? If I recall, It's extremely difficult to measure levels of specific chemicals in the brain if not impossible - again things may have changed in the last few years. As far as I could tell last time I looked this up, the physiological causes of depression and anxiety was basically total guesswork. Educated guesses, not actually backed up by hard evidence and somehow it just stuck.

The same thing applies to many of the substances used to treat these illnesses. Gabapentin, for example, is used to treat neuropathic pain. However the exact mechanism of action by which it treats this pain is unknown scientifically. Why? Because it's extremely difficult to follow, trace, and measure chemicals in the brain, where they go and what they do. I'm quite certain that Gabapentin doesn't even have any effect on the GABA receptors, though a few years ago I saw sources that said it did. Now sources say it doesn't, but that they still don't know what it does...

My point is that I believe most of psychiatry to be guesswork, with little real evidence backing it up. Studies can be done to find correlations, but as far as biological proof there isn't much. I want to point out that I am NOT, but any means, trying to say people don't really have mental illnesses. I probably have legitimate anxiety and depression, and I'm quite certain many of you guys do too, maybe even some other mental disorders. I am, however, saying that I think the cause is less physiological and more psycho-social. The structure of todays society clashes with our natural programming. It has changed so quickly, so fast, that evolution hasn't been able to keep up and the instinctual, primal part of our brains and minds don't quite know how to react.

I realize that I have sourced no evidence for my conclusions, and have admittedly not done research on the topic in the last few years. I was randomly thinking about this last night and became very interested in other peoples opinions. I just got access to a ton of different peer reviewed journals at my school today, so I will do some research over the next couple days and edit this accordingly. Or if anybody else has relevant sources/research they want to share Id love to see it - regarding anything I have said or anything that may be related, along with, of course, what you think about the causes of these illnesses.

Again, I just want to stress that the intention of this thread has nothing to do with discounting peoples beliefs and peoples illnesses. It's about discussing potential causes other than biological, unless real, hard evidence of biological can be presented.

 

[RedLeader]

I do think that conditions like OCD/neurosis, bipolar, schizophrenia and so on are very real, at least in that certain people definitely have them, it's not self-fulfilling at all. And perhaps medication and treatment is appropriate in these cases.

Everything else, though, I think is caused by fear. Fear is perhaps the most efficient way to control human behaviour. The sales/marketing forces make people fear inadequacy. School, work, the law and so on make people fear consequences. And the pharmaceutical industry profits off of people's fears of being physically or medically unwell. Fear is the common-denominator, but the forces are all unique in their own ways and come together to make one emotional mess for society. And then this is topped of with a fear of showing emotion/fear, which just makes people even more upset behind closed doors.

To me, anxiety is this state of feeling like overwhelming fear is lurking just around the corner. To calm anxiety, you have to free your mind from the fears that permeate your day. I know that for me, it's freedom from feeling inferior, freedom from feeling like I am lacking this or that, freedom from the fear that I have conditions X, Y and Z going on in my brain. Medicine, therapy, rehab, etc...none of that ever did any good for my anxiety or depression. It just added fuel to the fire. I only am managing to make things slightly better for myself through a spiritual/holistic approach that I've designed for myself. And a lot of conspiracy theory literature as well!

"The only real prison is fear, and the only real freedom is freedom from fear." - Aung San Suu Kyi

 

[beekr]

Okay this is going to blow your mind, and you're going to think I'm some right-wing Christian nut but I assure you, I am neither of those things.

You know what can cause lack of confidence, anxiety, and depression? PORN.

I had been using porn since I was about 13 until I was in my early 20's. And all of those years I had really low confidence and high anxiety, morphing intro depression. I was on all kinds of psych meds. Then, I finally got a girlfriend and to my horror I found that I couldn't maintain my erection with real women. Anyway, had myself checked out, nothing wrong with me. Boner pills, ineffective. Testosterone levels normal.

Then I quit porn & wanking. Cold turkey. In just days I felt so much better and more confidence, and after 6 months I began to have morning wood again and I also began to have spontaneous erections when seeing attractive women out and about. I cannot recommend this course of action more emphatically. And guess what... SCIENCE! google "your brain on porn"

 

[deltakappamu]

Okay this is going to blow your mind, and you're going to think I'm some right-wing Christian nut but I assure you, I am neither of those things.

You know what can cause lack of confidence, anxiety, and depression? PORN.

I had been using porn since I was about 13 until I was in my early 20's. And all of those years I had really low confidence and high anxiety, morphing intro depression. I was on all kinds of psych meds. Then, I finally got a girlfriend and to my horror I found that I couldn't maintain my erection with real women. Anyway, had myself checked out, nothing wrong with me. Boner pills, ineffective. Testosterone levels normal.

Then I quit porn & wanking. Cold turkey. In just days I felt so much better and more confidence, and after 6 months I began to have morning wood again and I also began to have spontaneous erections when seeing attractive women out and about. I cannot recommend this course of action more emphatically. And guess what... SCIENCE! google "your brain on porn"

Ok... so.... I googled.


I am a woman, and I watch porn.

I honestly think watching porn and masturbating is healthy... as long as it is not interfering with your life/you are not doing it too much.


But yeah, I really am not sure that this post fits too well with the original thread...and I was kinda confused when you posted it. I wondered at first if you were trolling or being serious, honestly. I just found this an odd response to the two well thought out posts

 

[beekr]

Ok... so.... I googled.


I am a woman, and I watch porn.

I honestly think watching porn and masturbating is healthy... as long as it is not interfering with your life/you are not doing it too much.


But yeah, I really am not sure that this post fits too well with the original thread...and I was kinda confused when you posted it. I wondered at first if you were trolling or being serious, honestly. I just found this an odd response to the two well thought out posts

I'm sorry I wasn't clear, just that the OP asked about what in our contemporary lives could be provoking anxiety & depression and for young men who are waaaay too much into porn into can lead to ED which in turn causes the rest of that stuff.

 

[deltakappamu]

^ oh ok... sorry for the confusion.

Interesting bunch of articles when you google that topic anyway!

 

[caseface99]

^^ Yeah I mean that could be relevant, porn is an aspect of todays society that wasn't around a few hundred years ago. I doubt that it plays a big part in this though, if at all...

 

[flyhighk]

Okay this is going to blow your mind, and you're going to think I'm some right-wing Christian nut but I assure you, I am neither of those things.

You know what can cause lack of confidence, anxiety, and depression? PORN.

I had been using porn since I was about 13 until I was in my early 20's. And all of those years I had really low confidence and high anxiety, morphing intro depression. I was on all kinds of psych meds. Then, I finally got a girlfriend and to my horror I found that I couldn't maintain my erection with real women. Anyway, had myself checked out, nothing wrong with me. Boner pills, ineffective. Testosterone levels normal.

Then I quit porn & wanking. Cold turkey. In just days I felt so much better and more confidence, and after 6 months I began to have morning wood again and I also began to have spontaneous erections when seeing attractive women out and about. I cannot recommend this course of action more emphatically. And guess what... SCIENCE! google "your brain on porn"

You watch asapscience don't you?

And caseface, I agree with most of what you're saying. Pressure from society that forces us to behave in certain ways, to look good, etc... plays a role in the increase in psychiatric illnesses.
But these illnesses still need to be treated, they are REAL illnesses. Even if the cause is society and not "chemical imbalances".
And honestly I don't believe that chemical imbalances in the brain are the main cause of these illnesses.

 

[PsychedelicHaze]

I agree that anxiety and depression are caused by fear due to a mental trauma caused over a long peruod of time and or in a single event.

Subconsciously it starts to work its way into peoples minds until it is too late. Sometimes people may not even percieve things to have effect them in such a way that it would eventually cause serious anxiety around others. I.e. getting made fun of on a constant basis even by friends.

Sure one could laugh it off but it bottles up and eventually makes one think of him or herself in a different way.

obviously other reasons could be such as events of parental abuse or by others. It causes fear of others or more likely sadness. Depression which is usually the root of all anxiety. Mental scarring is very real imo. The brain seems to never let go even though consciously you want to.

I also believe someone could have anxiety after depression is gone. Most likely due to the memories in the back of the mind causing a constant fight or flight in certain situations (most social settings).

I personally have experienced all of this. After I stopped the hard use of drugs and with a clear mind I tried to come to a conclusion as to why I changed so much during my teen to a young adult with crippling anxiety.


Consistent use of hard drugs would most likely make things even worse as well. One is just hiding the problems and feeling good. When one is out of drugs they're mad, only craving drugs, and using their brain thinking of how to get more. A vicious cycle.

I realized it was because of most of the reasons I stated above. After I found out the reasons why it became much better. It's still there but you just got to let go of the past. Think of the present and future. The past is the past.




I also agree that excessive porn is a big problem. If anyone has seen the recent movie Don Jon it shows how bad it can get. Obviously if it wasn't a movie the person wouldn't be getting with any real girl and he would most likely have ED problems. That's not too say releasing once in a while is definitely healthy though. However if you were one who watched porn for years with out lots of real life experience it can cause a lot of problems. Just like anything else it's a vicious cycle. Why get with a girl when you can get off on to a hot porn star everyday? Different ones per day at that.

 

[herbavore]

This is a discussion very near and dear to my heart. I would recommend the book Anatomy of an Epidemic by Robert Whitaker.

The discussion and exploration of this topic is sensitive and often breaks down into polemics and yet it is an urgent topic even if to achieve nothing more than reframing the questions we need to grapple with.

Some of the facts that make this so compelling for me:

People that suffer from extreme states of depression and anxiety are often shut down and driven deeper into these states by the attitude that it is all in their heads. In other words, "buck up and stop whinging". People try to talk them out of real feelings of despair by saying "others have it so much worse", "first world problems" or "look on the sunny side". Conversely people are led right into a sense of helplessness and robbed of their own power when they are told they have the (IMO) mythical "chemical imbalance".

Big pharmaceuticals (and small ones for that matter) see a gold mine and they have pounced on it with all their marketing guns blazing. They have more than influence, they have complete control. The world of pediatrics, psychology and psychiatry has been turned upside down from the marketing of drugs for the new plethora of diagnoses.The blind belief of the medical profession and the public in general in "magic bullets" while that same profession and public vilify those drugs deemed illegal is a whole subject in and of itself.

My sons and I have (had) very similar natures which is to say, very sensitive, shy and often anxious, rebellious, creative, spacey, undisciplined and sometimes manic. Growing up in the fifties before anything was called a disorder, I was expected to adapt to the world with the nature I had. I was not given a label of GAD, nor was I given the label ADD nor ODD nor SAD nor Selective Mute nor any of the other labels that were applied to my kids and could have been to me. It was my nature and my personality and I was supposed to figure it all out on my own no matter how difficult. You can see just by how I wrote this that there are both positives and negatives within both of our experiences, each determined by time and place. They went to schools that accommodated their learning differences. I did not. However by living with the label they were far less equipped than I to come up with their own unique and empowering strategies to create a life that fit their natures.

Capitalism as it is expressed in consumerism cannot be discounted as a powerful force that divides people from their true natures. The intentional marketing fear and uncertainty and discomfort and self-doubt is just a watered down form of proven psychological tortures used to break down prisoners when applied at a more intense level. The disappearance of nature from many people's experience in life only exacerbates this division from the self.

People that suffer from extreme depression, anxiety, bipolar and schizophrenia have a higher rate of suicide and risky behaviors that can be fatal than people who do not suffer these states. People are dying from the misery of their symptoms. When people ask me how my son died I rarely just say from a drug overdose. I say he died from despair and I believe that.

Mental illness is real, whatever we may decide to call it. What is essential is that we look outside of the narrow perceptions and polemics we are taught to think in and let all the wonderful brain research that is being done stay free of the funding from big pharma, stay free of the confines of western medical traditions only, stay free of our own need to pin things down simply as a way to deal with our own discomfort with uncertainty and contradiction and to ask more questions that we declare answers.

We are actually at an exciting time in history with brain research. If we can all participate in the dialogue we will all be better off for doing so.

P.S. (Last thought before work!) We have in California a terrifying (to me) new phenomenon called "Mental Health Court". Presented and embraced by mental health advocates as a way to keep people with diagnosed conditions out of the jails and prison system (all good, right?) one horrendous practice is making it illegal for a person to be off their "medications" as determined by a psychiatrist. WHAT??!! What constitutes medication is subjective. What constitutes a beneficial dosage or combination is subjective. No one should be ordered by a psychiatrist and judge without their consent to take any drug. the hypocrisy becomes even more surreal when you consider that these people are usually in court on drug charges.8(