Sober and on Vivitrol shot for 2 months - tired, angry and irritable!

[dognasher]

Hey all!

I have been clean from an IV cocaine/heroin habit for close to two months. I got the vivitrol shot, am in weekly counseling, and I am very happy to be clean and not have to wake up sick, hunt down shady dealers, and be broke. Not to mention the lying to loved ones, etc.

I am off all medication except for some vistaril at night for sleep and the occasional nighttime weed puff for insomnia. I have noticed that I am tired, unmotivated, and really IRRITABLE! MAN! Anybody else struggling with this? I find myself just blowing up at the smallest stuff. The smallest tasks feel like climbing Everest. I know this is probably some kind of PAWS, could also be from the Vivitrol shot, but I plan on doing the shot for at least three months as a precaution.

I am engaged and have a little one at home, and I am starting to fee really bad about being such a curmudgeon all the time.

My partner is really supportive of me and knows everything, so that's something. I also recently started running again and that seems to help the angries...

any, totally rambling here but have any of you guys struggled with this? Anything I am missing that could be beneficial? I did a search and there is tons of stuff about PAWS but not much about the rage that comes with being newly sober! It's like I feel dead inside unless I am just wildly angry. I am a pretty cheerful person, normally, so this brooding, angry side of me is kind of scary.

Thanks!

 

[Crankinit]

Do you see a therapist? I was skeptical at first, but over the long haul, therapy has been a huge help to me in terms of understanding where my various emotional reactions stem from. The only problem is finding a decent therapist - I went through 4 or 5 before I landed on a situation which I found helpful.

 

[dognasher]

Crank, I do see a therapist once a week - she is an addiction therapist that I really like and it has been helping. At this juncture I am not sure if my depression/rage/anxiety is from detoxing, from the Vivitrol, or just the issue that I was medicating with opiates to begin with. Part of me wants to start Suboxone, as I hear this helps some with depression, but am super reticent to start it when I am already clean. Im not sure I have another withdrawal in me. In the past I have tried Celexa, Lexapro, Effexor, Trazodone and none really did jack.

 

[phactor]

I was tried, angry and irritable when I was getting clean myself. Its part of the process. Stay on the vivitrol would be my advice. I just had a friend get off of vivitrol and overdose and die within a week. He was clean for six months supposedly.

I wanted to get on Vivitrol but I didn't qualify for outpatient (because my recovery was stable, I wasn't relapsing but it was still early for me) so it would have costed me thousands of dollars per shot!

 

[pinpoint]

You have to channel that rage in to something positive. Start working out - hard. It's the last thing you want to hear but it's also the best advice you'll ever get. A body in motion stays in motion - the trick is finding the motivation to get the ball rolling.

 

[dognasher]

Pin it's funny you say this because I have been seriously rocking some RAGEY runs lately. I used to be a pretty avid runner until well...you know. So that has really been helping!

Phactor - I switched from the shot to the oral naltrexone. The shot was making me super depressed - to the point where I couldn't get a runner's high, enjoy sex, food, anything. Its like it plugged up ALL my happy receptors. I wish there was a happy medium.

 

[drscience]

Dognasher clear some space in ur inbox PM

 

[dognasher]

Hi! Just saw this - sorry for the late reply. Drscience I just cleared some room.

 

[dognasher]

This is funny re-reading this because I too have been RAGING HARD on my runs. Seriously. I have been slammin' on the metal and running along the Platte River here in Denver and it really helps. So...here's another update: I did not get another Vivitrol shot. I just felt NO JOY. And then when it started to wear off I had horrible cravings and STILL no joy. Which led me to relapse once. But I didn't really get very high and I felt like absolute shit about myself. But now that the Viv has mostly worn off I actually feel like I can deal better with cravings because I have some natural joy-juice in my dome.

I have seriously been wondering if I have an endorphin deficiency, what with my DOC and the fact that I have always been an endorphin junkie with sports like running and snowboarding.

One more thing - my doc is giving me a swab test tomorrow to see what kind of meds I respond to so I can figure this out. I am so sick of trying so many things! Im in the phase now where I am trying to be really in tune with my bod and my brain so I can figure out why I have spent the last six months slamming coke and dope like it's going out of style. It's not easy, but I feel like I am *maybe* turning a corner?

Sorry, ramblin'. The answer to my own question is that I think it is a 50/50 thing with the Vivitrol and my brain just hating me for abusing it for so long! I have been (more or less, Im not gonna beat myself up for relapsing) clean since June and now I wake up and feel a little bit of hope for the day, and I can manage cravings by taking a run and getting my METALHEAD RAGE out!

 

[phactor]

Pin it's funny you say this because I have been seriously rocking some RAGEY runs lately. I used to be a pretty avid runner until well...you know. So that has really been helping!

Phactor - I switched from the shot to the oral naltrexone. The shot was making me super depressed - to the point where I couldn't get a runner's high, enjoy sex, food, anything. Its like it plugged up ALL my happy receptors. I wish there was a happy medium.

You sure it wasn't just the anhedonia that comes with withdrawal? Did you talk to the doctor about this?

 

[dognasher]

I did, but since the shot has worn off I feel way better. Like I still have cravings and stuff but I'm not stuck in the prison of my own mind. I've had some clean time under my belt before and it was never quite like this. I think Vivtrol can be a great thing for some people. For me I like the oral naltrexone better. I felt like the Viv shot was killing a hamster with a shotgun. I don't doubt that it's a very good solution for some. Part of my problem could be because I took the shot with some opiates in me still (despite ten days clean) and I was thrown into precipitated withdrawal. Who knows?

 

[Phobicgadfly]

Hmmm fatigue irritability and anger are side effects of Vivitrol that I hadn't heard of before, (and I spent a month on it!) Good to know. For me, it did basically nothing but block the receptors. It could be because I just wasn't very sensitive to subtle changes in my body, after spending years either at the top of the world or sick as a dog, when I get sober it's difficult to identify whether I feel healthy or not, because I have no frame of context. Especially when it comes to psychological or intangible symptoms - in rehab last year, my counselor decided from my demeanor and the content of our discussions that I suffer from depression (not the first time I've heard that) and put me on lexapro. I was only able to see that the way I was feeling prior to taking it was indeed muted and just not right, until after 2 weeks and the effects of taking the lexapro started to kick in.

Am I making any sense?

How did you end up getting the shot while you still had opiates in your system, and getting PWDs, after 10 days??? What opiate besides methadone even has the capability to stay in your system that long? I know everyone is different, but... Didn't the prescribing doctor require a negative urine test? My rehab waited until the 28th day of treatment to administer it, partially so that we'd be armed for as long as possible when tossed back into the world at day 30, but also to avoid that nasty possibility of irreversible PWDs.

In retrospect I think I was being very hard-headed and stubborn, a bit petty even. But at the time, being on a medication that made it impossible to self-medicate with opiates (a tried and true method of mine) that was doing NOTHING for the symptoms/emotions/etc that I wanted too escape from, felt like a worse fate than being an active addict. I think I must have tried to get high through the viv shot every day for the last 10 days or so of being on it, despite feeling absolutely nothing. What I was thinking, and how I was unable to play the tape through to its logical conclusion, I do not know...

I'm so happy to hear that suboxone is working so well for you. Do you pick up a month's supply at a time? How often do you see your prescribing doctor? Does she have you on anything else? Have you experienced any cravings or felt overwhelmed and wanting to escape? How do you cope when something like that happens?

Through my experience and observations, I've concluded that it really takes a perfect storm of circumstances, support availability, and most importantly, that the addict is truly at their wit's end and at a turning point. Also, trial and error. If you have hit your bottom and are ready to stop and the treatment method you turn to is not something that jives with you, that determination to stay sober can quickly fade and be replaced with hopelessness. Can I ask you what factors were in play toward the end of your addiction that made you ready and willing to stop? Also, was this your first attempt getting clean?

Forgive the barrage of questions =) I'm happy to see you're back online

 

[dognasher]

Hey Phobic -

I had actually been taking Kratom when I got the Viv shot. "They" told me it wouldn't matter. Silly me for believing them.

The Vivtrol shot did NOTHING for me. It stopped cravings for like three weeks but I got no pleasure from ANYTHING and I was a real asshole. And then I started shooting coke again while waiting for my opiate receptors to be free again. Just to feel SOMETHING.

It was an awful experience. I find the suboxone not only keeps me from wanting dope, but coke too. I don't know if that's just because my brain is tricked into thinking it's high, and I rarely jonesed for blow when I had ample opiates at hand.

I have heard of very few instances where the Vivitrol shot worked for people. I am happy it exists in the event that it helps somebody, but it made me such a depressed asshole. I'd rather be high and pleasant than sober and evil.

 

[phactor]

I have heard of very few instances where the Vivitrol shot worked for people. I am happy it exists in the event that it helps somebody, but it made me such a depressed asshole. I'd rather be high and pleasant than sober and evil.

Stange, Vivitrol has lots of success with many people. Do not take this the wrong way, but no pill or shot will make your addiction go away. You started shooting coke and were still using, so of course you started craving. I know when I did Dope I'd want coke and vice versa. Vitriol will not make that "connection" go away. By using, you set yourself up for failure. Being in recovery takes lots of work. Medication can help, but it can only do so much.

 

[dognasher]

I understand and what you say makes sense. But I didn't start using coke until the vivitrol shot wore off - it actually did wonders for me regarding cravings for both, like I said before - even though it's not supposed to help cravings with coke. So as far as that, the shot did work. But what I meant in my other posts was that I was so miserable and angry that it didn't seem worth it. Also, I feel like it's good that there are more threads on Vivitrol side effects because a LOT of people actually have problems with it.

For me, a combo of counseling, group therapy, and Suboxone has worked wonders. So you are right, there is no one medicine that can cure addiction, but I don't think the Vivitrol shot is the wonder drug that everybody says it is. Believe me, if it was I would have gladly stayed on it.

 

[Jabberwocky]

While a lot of people have found success with viv, a lot of people have reported the kind of general anhedonia dognasher is describing. I mean, it kinda makes sense, given the effect of naltrexone on andrenaline.

I'm happy to see you're finding your way dognasher. It was a LOT easier to detox from buprenorphine, considering I did it right and knew what I was getting into, than any other habit I've had. The subtlety and length of dorm symptoms bugged me, but it was much more mmanagable than I imagine.

I also got on bupe after about a month of abstinence. I found it much more effective and easier to maintain on a low dose like 2-4mg than it would have been had I switched straight from using.

Keep up the good work. If you just keep moving forward and making good, healthy decisions you'll get where ever it is you wanna be.

 

[phactor]

While a lot of people have found success with viv, a lot of people have reported the kind of general anhedonia dognasher is describing. I mean, it kinda makes sense, given the effect of naltrexone on andrenaline.

I'm happy to see you're finding your way dognasher. It was a LOT easier to detox from buprenorphine, considering I did it right and knew what I was getting into, than any other habit I've had. The subtlety and length of dorm symptoms bugged me, but it was much more mmanagable than I imagine.

I am a big proponent of Medication Assisted Treatment of any type, bupe and viv both have good success. In fact, I'd suggest that Viv could follow a sub regime.

I have heard many people say that viv makes them uncomfortable but then it goes away. Also, some professions require viv shots in order to start working for them again after treatment.

Lots of times, the effects of quitting a drug and all the feelings and changes that accompanies gets applied as "side effects". You are going to suffer from things like anhedonia when quitting dope, viv shot or no viv.

Dognasher, if you keep using then your body will not have a chance to repair itself. I am glad Bupe is working for you. Have you used since you got on it?

 

[amber74]

Hello again dognasher! Funny just chimed in on your other post. So did you go to suboxone from vivitrol? I'm about to get myself off the subs and switch to vivitrol (all starting from pain pill abuse). I feel mentally ready to withdrawal from the buprenorphine. I know everyone is affected differently, but if I'm correct, subs have buprenorphine and naloxone in it. Vivitrol just the naloxone. That's why I want to switch because I want to start the PAWS process, all the mental healing (depression, rage, irritability, etc.), but still have the naloxone as a back-up so I know that I can't get high. Until I'm confident that I don't need that anymore either. Sounds like you didn't know exactly what was causing the rage issues. Vivitrol or something else. But I wasn't aware it's available in pill form too. Was that a daily dose or how did that work exactly?

 

[phactor]

Hello again dognasher! Funny just chimed in on your other post. So did you go to suboxone from vivitrol? I'm about to get myself off the subs and switch to vivitrol (all starting from pain pill abuse). I feel mentally ready to withdrawal from the buprenorphine. I know everyone is affected differently, but if I'm correct, subs have buprenorphine and naloxone in it. Vivitrol just the naloxone. That's why I want to switch because I want to start the PAWS process, all the mental healing (depression, rage, irritability, etc.), but still have the naloxone as a back-up so I know that I can't get high. Until I'm confident that I don't need that anymore either. Sounds like you didn't know exactly what was causing the rage issues. Vivitrol or something else. But I wasn't aware it's available in pill form too. Was that a daily dose or how did that work exactly?

You do go through the PAWS process on Suboxone, but yes, it is often blunted. However, your body is still repairing itself on Suboxone. It sounds like you are ready to taper off though! I would encourage you to switch to Vivitrol for at least a little while. Every little bit helps.

This is something that you should talk to your doctor about. Taper off the Sub slowly. It took me about 8 months of a slow taper to get off and it was difficult for maybe a few days. Nothing near full agonist (dope, oxy, hydro, fent etc) withdrawal.

Just to be clear, Vivitrol is an injection, there are pills of Naloxone though. Also, the Naloxone in the suboxone is so small that it likely has no effect orally, it is in there to try to deter people from shooting up their suboxone.

 

[dognasher]

Phactor, I have not used a single drug since starting Bupe. Yay! It's been two months. And for that I am eternally grateful - on Vivitrol I had pretty insane cravings when the shot started to wear off, and the general anhedonia was a bitch, but not on bupe. Bupe also gives my druggie brain a little lift and the most important thing for me was that I got super super depressed on the Vivitrol and the Subs seem to help me with my depression.

Could it have been that I was just going through PAWS and had I stuck it out I would have eventually felt better? Totally. Did I want to risk having my depression and irritability ruin my quality of life and drive me to suicidal thoughts? Not so much. So subs it was.

I don't plan on tapering off the bupe for a long time because I really need to learn how to live sober without fighting the cravings all the time. For me, Suboxone gives me that chance.

Amber, that's awesome you are ready to taper! No, I went from Heroin/Vivitrol/Subs. Now that I am on subs I don't think I will ever go on Vivitrol again. I really plan on staying on the subs for a while to give my addict brain time to calm down and stop thinking about scoring. My goal is to taper off when i feel that I have followed a sober path for a year or two and completely extricated myself from that world, and have the coping skills. God. That might take half a decade! WHATEVER IT TAKES, haha!

I would not be scared off by the Vivitrol horror stories - just stay aware of your mind and body and have realistic expectations. The thing I would make SURE of is that you take the Vivitrol shot at the right time because I got awful precipitated WD's and that was just from having fucking KRATOM in my system when I got the shot. Subs last a long time and you don't want to feel icky when you get the shot! That seems to be the trickiest thing, is that window. Viv won't do jack shit for your PAWS or your WD either. It just stops you from getting hight. And that goes for booze too, at least with me. But I do believe it's saved a lot of people's lives and hey, if you don't like it, it takes a month to wear off and that is doable!

It does come in pill form and if I could go back I would have started on the pills to see if I liked them before I committed to the shot.

This thread is a good example of why people should always try a number of things on their own before they give up - for some people, vivitrol works. I wish it would have for me. I don't look forward to the WDs from Suboxone but if it keeps me alive then I will gladly go through it for myself and for my family. Subs don't work for a lot of people either - it just gives them a crutch to use and stave off WDs. NA works for many - it didn't for me, rather a group therapy that focused on depression and specifically, women's issues, was a lifesaver. I also combine this with one on one weekly therapy with a drug counselor who I really like. So I am a huge supporter of a multi pronged approach to recovery, but as we all know, recovery is not one size fits all.