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  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Severe Tracers and Afterimages from DXM Abuse Becoming Progressively Worse

tracers

tracers

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Joined
Apr 10, 2016
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Hello, Friends. My name is Alex. I decided to join Bluelight because I cant seem to find anybody to vent to about my symptoms. Maybe this isn't in the right section, and if it needs to be moved, I hope it can be moved somewhere where people can see this. I really have been obsessing over finding someone who has gone through a similar experience as me. I'm going to do my best to summarize this well, but i'm also going to keep it fairly detailed, as I think other people will find it as interesting as I do. This is my first time sharing my experience in full, so i'm happy to have this all out in writing for my both my own documentation and to hopefully have some new friends here give me some responses :)


When I was 16 in 2012, I was experimenting with pretty heavy doses of DXM. One night I made a mistake of taking a dose (600mgs, 10pm) when I had taken my prescription Vyvanse (70mgs, 9am) earlier that day. After I dosed, I noticed myself coming up quicker than I normally would and this trip was much more intense than it normally would be for my tolerance. I was having open eye hallucinations, mainly orbs and balls of light popping up in my vision. Definitely not something that would normally happen when taking DXM, especially with my high tolerance at the time.

Fast forward to the next day. I grabbed a container of orange juice out of the fridge. I put it back and grabbed it again. Something wasn't right. The typical trailing side effect I always experienced on the drug had not gone away. I had a little bit of hope that it would go away after the drug completely left my system, but I vividly remember having this thought: "I messed up. I don't think these things are going to go away..." It was a vivid thought, but it was in the back of my mind. Notice how I grabbed the juice multiple times...I had barely even noticed the trails were there. They were very mild compared to what they have progressed to today in 2016.

Over the years my trails have gotten progressively worse. I know people will tell me I should get clean and see how that helps, and I did. I did 7 months in an inpatient program in 2014 at age 18, completely detoxed from all substances (even caffeine) and my trails got worse even in the program. During my stay at the program, another symptom introduced its ass head into my life: Fucking afterimages. I remember when I first noticed them.

"fuck." That was definitely something that was not in my vision before. This helped me confirm that my symptoms indeed were getting progressively worse and it wasn't just my imagination.

Fast forward to today. Im 20 years old and my symptoms are now affecting my quality of life. After looking up the interaction between Amphetamine and DXM, I realized that this combination is not a joke. the question of how much worse these could possibly become...a terrifying thought for


My trails are long as fuck now. I can draw patterns with my fingers and hands. Depending on the lighting, there are ghosting figures trailing behind people who are walking. My afterimages are also more detailed. At first the afterimages only appeared when looking away from bright text or a shiny object... Im just now getting used to this.

Quitting drugs isn't going to happen at this point in my life. Its not going to help. Im taking Vyvanse again, and and its something that is very important that I continue to take to stay focused. Now, I haven't smoked pot or drank in about a week and there is no change in my symptoms. Basically everything makes them worse...weed, drinking, vyvanse, lack of sleep, sleep, living...Lol.

The biggest problem this has become for me is distraction. i'm subconsciously always trying to see if they are becoming better or worse. How useless...
They also are a constant reminder of a shitty drug that I just want to forget I ever touched.

They also can be a physical hinderance to my vision. The trails are detailed enough that its almost like I'm seeing everything a little bit slower than I should be. Like a processing error in my brain.

I'll start to wrap all of this up. I have spoken to doctors and they don't have a fucking clue about what it is, and they haven't really sympathized with me either. I saw an Ophthalmologist and got an extensive test on my eyes. Its not anything that can be picked up by those kinds of tests. I've done a whole lot of research on this medical issue and its pretty damn rare. Aside from people with HPPD, I cant find anyone who is experiencing something like I am.

What i'm really looking for here, guys, is closure. There are many, many questions and pretty much nothing in the way of answers. If I could interact with someone who has experienced anything like this, it would really lift my spirits a lot! If it continues to progress at the rate that it has been, i'm fucked.

Thank you in advance to anyone who takes the time to respond to this post, and thank you to those of you who read my post.




https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palinopsia
 
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We don't know a whole lot about HPPD but it's probably not from any real form of damage - many non neurotoxic drugs can cause HPPD. It seems to from an inhibition of an enzyme called COMT that breaks down catecholamines like dopamine in the brain. Too much dopamine can lead to visuals.

If I were in your position I would do my best to remember that you are far better off than someone who abused ecstasy or bath salts or any of the actual hard drugs. I'd say getting away with HPPD is honestly pretty good all things considered. I've had HPPD from ecstasy since I was 14 and personally it's improved a lot for me over the past 6 years, especially as I've been catching up on sleep.

Mindfulness meditation can help you focus and sleep better - I would practice shutting off the thoughts and the voice in the head. Best of luck, any questions are welcome.
 
I appreciate your response, my friend.

My only question is why do you think it wouldn't be brain damage? Taking something like DXM when vyvanse is still in my brain seems to be a recipe for disaster. It doesnt seem far fetched to conclude this as being brain damage from overstimulation of brain cells or something like that? I just really don't know if this is HPPD or not.
 
I don't understand how you're so convinced that it isn't HPPD and that it's brain damage??
 
Also, the clinical name of this condition is palinopsia, which can be a result from lesions in the brain.

Its not far fetched to relate a combination of amphetamine and DXM in the brain to lead to damage, especially if you check out that Erowid link.
 
I'm not saying that the combo couldn't potentially cause brain damage, just that you seem to be jumping somewhat quickly to that conclusion without much, if any, evidence. The symptoms you describe seem pretty consistent with HPPD.
 
Like I said, I hope this is something we can open a discussion about and possibly come up with some answers based on input from multiple people.

I appreciate your response like I will everyone else's. This is something that has progressed PROFOUNDLY since the symptoms began.

There's a neurologist in my state who specializes in working with people like Gotcha Yankinov and myself. Perhaps I can see him and get some tests done before any of us make any real conclusions.

You're right though, what I've experienced is a chance in perception. I just have this strong feeling said change took some brain cells down with it. I had done a lot of drugs before this. A lot of stupid shit and combinations. A little too much of one of these drugs without much time in between them seems like it could cause damage to the extent I'm facing.

Just think about it. Its almost like I'm seeing things a little too slow and I have to wait for my eyes to catch up to what I'm viewing. Possibly some damage to brain resulting in perception processing issues?

Also keep in mind, A listed cause of Palinopsia is lesions in the brain. To me, it just makes more sense to relate this to some form of damage, rather than something like HPPD, which we know even less about.

Hope other people can bring some comments and experiences to the table here. Im not shutting down HPPD as a possibility. It just makes me sad that I might not ever know.
 
Sometimes the changes that occur with the brain while on drugs (essentially learning) can persist after the drug is gone, but that does not necessarily mean damage. There are other processes that could explain having long term changes without damage, like long term potentiation and long term depression.

You seem to have solely visual symptoms - is that correct? My pondering is if HPPD truly is damage than why aren't the other brain regions more noticeably affected? Maybe the visual region is just very sensitive to any change and you will notice the change in visual processing before other brain regions?

From what I remember about HPPD it seemed the issue was too much dopamine, not damage to brain cells.

Do you have any troubles other than the visuals? Insomnia?

Care to review your drug history?

By the way I think you'll find most doctors are very deficient when it comes to these topics. But if you really feel damaged it might be worth it to get an MRI to get this off your mind. I was really surprised when my MRI came up completely normal myself but it helped me move past the whole "damage" thing, now I think the changes that occur with the brain with addiction are the real culprit.
 
Yes HPPD could be from too much dopamine, but if what I have is Palinopsia as a result from lesions in the brain, it wouldn't be HPPD. Thats the problem were having trouble identifying here. I hope we can get to the bottom of it. Its hard to make any real conclusions.


The only medical issue I have is ADHD and Social Anxiety Disorder (whatever)

Drug History: 3 day in a row trips of DXM. I would start with 300mgs one night, 600 the following night, and 900 the final night, taking a tolerance break for about a month after the 3 day binge. Very, very stupid of me. I also abused Amphetamines, Alcohol and Marijuana. Thats about it for my teenage years. Now I'm just an alcoholic.
 
Olney's lesions don't occur with dissassociative abuse in higher primates that we've seen thus far, there is no reason to think that you have lesions from drugs and that's what's been causing your symptoms - it's much more likely classic HPPD that is not mediated by lesions.

Might even have to do with DeltaFosB seeing as we're wondering about this HPPD being from NMDA antagonists and amphetamines which both work by increasing dopamine.

But anyways abuse severe enough to cause lesions like in seen on severe ketamine abusers MRIs usually have marked atrophy and lesions, and blatant deficits and trouble with motor control. It sounds like the rest of your brain is fine though, just the visual part? Classic HPPD in my opinion.
 
But what about the dosing of DXM while the Vyvanse is still actively in my brain? I understand that they both increase dopamine, but combining these drugs is what led me to what you think is HPPD. Months of high doses of DXM + Cannabis never left me any lasting side effects. What about the fact that my symptoms have steadily progressed and worsened, including the afterimages which never were present at the beginning of all of this? Is HPPD usually progressive like that? Sometimes it gets better, sometimes it gets worse, I guess, but, when I look at the timeline of all this, its been a steady increase of symptoms and severity.

Its affecting my life. Any suggestions for medication or anything? Unfortunately, I am abusing amphetamine again. I know I shouldn't be, but I am.



s4pgme.jpg
 
I think sobriety is very important for recovery - that being said sometimes people get HPPD like symptoms without ever having touched drugs.

I don't think you've suffered much real damage but part of your brain might have grown stronger or weaker just like a muscle that is used or not used. If it were from damage I would expect it to be getting better, but instead because it is getting worse you might look at it as an abberrant learning process, which is basically what addiction is.

I imagine your white matter will appear very intact on an MRI.

I suggest meditation most of all but if you ever feel like you're ready for a medication then I don't know if we would necessarily medicate specifically the HPPD or rather medicate underlying mental illness and hope that the HPPD gets better with time. Depakote would be one to try that might help change the genetic changes that occur with addiction and that might help your mood and HPPD.

Dopamine antagonists like Risperidone are always an option, Risperidone is okay at low doses. Personally it made my visuals lessen, and also since I slept better I think that helped too.
 
I appreciate your help, friend.

The most important thing for me to do is accept what I did to myself. Its not going anywhere. Its just so fucking distracting, not to mention, annoying as hell. I have to change the way I think about it completely. Maybe even try to appreciate it or something.


I used to go several days without even thinking about the trails, now that they've progressed further, its becoming harder to ignore them because it really bothers me. Probably a lot more than it should, considering i've had them for so long and I know they're (most likely) permanent.
 
Personally I think you should try meditation to see if you can't get your thoughts to calm down - some people have a very overactive voice in their head and this is a big source of grief for many people, and I think it's very common with us drug users. Learning to keep a mindfulness mindset may not decrease to intensity of your visuals but it will definitely help you live with them.

I would start by sitting down for 15 minutes every night, and just paying attention to the way your breathing and body feels, and every time a thought pops into your head or thre voice in your head starts talking, return your attention to the breath. It's okay if you're very unsuccessful at first - that's a sign that this is exactly what you need. Eventually the goal is to learn to keep a mindfulness mindset throughout the day, constantly noticing if you are lost in thought and then returning your attention to the present.

People who think about the past too much are usually depressed, people who think about the future too much are usually anxious, I think you'll feel a lot better if you learn to stay in the present.

Do your best to forgive yourself for using drugs, and remember that this experience probably hasn't been all bad - you've learned a very valuable lesson about the fragility of human health.
 
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