Set and setting for my first trip on changa

[Flickering]

Looking for comments from psychonauts experienced with DMT. If anything I'm doing sounds like an incredibly bad idea, if there's any suggestion you'd like to put forward, I'd be very grateful to hear it. In the interests of harm reduction, I feel it would be stupid not to check my plan with people who likely know better.

I'll be doing this with two friends. We intend to use a simple bong for maximum effect. None of us have ever tried DMT before, but we all have experience with a wide range of other hallucinogens, and I have recently partaken in an ayahuasca ceremony.

My plan is to do it on some sand dunes not far from our lodging, at 3:30a.m. The three of us will smoke it at the same time rather than in turns, going in together. Immediately prior, we will drop acid, perhaps about three hits (~100 mics each). The intention is that when we return from hyperspace, we will have the next twelve hours to process the experience as the gentler, more familiar LSD trip unfolds. We ought to be at the peak around about sunrise. I hope for a heartwrenchingly beautiful and profound experience.

I fully expect that my meeting with the entheogenic spirits will be a dark one, because I am going in with deeply troubled thoughts. I believe the difference between catastrophe and catharsis will be whether I am able to surrender to the experience. I anticipate that this will be a full death experience, with my awareness leaving my body and expanding to the much wider scope of my environment, including the realms imperceptible to my baseline human senses. I believe I will come back ultimately unharmed, but also that I will not necessarily remember this at the time. To this end, I have prepared the following prayer before I take the first toke:

I offer my body and mind to this experience; I surrender my life and sanity to your discretion; keep them or don't. In return for this offering, please guide me with wisdom and compassion.

I'm told the nature of the trip is unimaginable until you've been there. The best I way I can picture it is to compress the full strength of a six-hour ayahuasca voyage into twenty minutes. My experience with ayahuasca was so devastating that I spent the week after seriously contemplating suicide. Yet I'm glad I did it, because in the end it taught me so much, and allowed me to free blockages in my life that I would still otherwise be stuck with. If I have a similarly crushing ride here, I will accept it with grace. This will be my thirty-fourth psychedelic experience, and I have always found value in intentionally exploring the regions of the mind most people prefer to ignore. For me, there are no bad trips, only dark trips, and I am no longer afraid to die.

On a final note, we intend to smoke cannabis throughout the acid trip that follows, partly in the hope that it will trigger useful flashbacks to the DMT experience.

 

[ricardo08]

Not feeling afraid to die is a good start, approaching it from this angle will limit the potential for a rough ride. From my experience with DMT and changa the hardest part to keep it together through was the feeling of loss of self or ego "death". If you can relax through that (assuming you reach that point - it's not guaranteed) then you will retain enjoyment and the feelings will be pleasant.

It sounds like a good plan and a nice setting. Just relax and let the experience wash over you and accept whatever comes. Resistance is pointless, but you seem to have gathered that already. All I really feel to add is to only decide to take the acid once you've fully reintegrated from the DMT and maybe not at all if you had a particularly difficult experience, unless you feel ready to tackle that difficult experience with another difficult experience. In that case I wouldn't, but that's just me. That said, DMT is surprisingly friendly. I've never come across anyone have a truly devastating ride with it, though they are reported, but rare. Even the ones that shake you up aren't anything to cry about, you're just so blown away that it rattles your cage a bit.

What's your planned DMT dose?

 

[Flickering]

I suppose if I have a truly awful time of it, I'm going to regret that I dosed on the acid once I come down and remember I did it. Perhaps it would be worth it to leave that decision until after I'm back.

Having said that, I'm usually pretty resilient with this stuff, and I find LSD for the most part to be an extremely friendly substance for me.

Okay, I might take one hit before the changa and the next two after if I'm still feeling up to it.

Not sure about the dose, if it was plain DMT I would do 45 - 50mg, but since it's changa I think you need to take more for it to work. Will need to look into it.

Thanks for your reply.

 

[ricardo08]

It's often 50% DMT / 50% caapi leaf/plant matter, so 100mg of changa would be a 50mg dose of DMT, but it depends on the changa. You would want to find this out if you can as not to accidentally take a double dose.

 

[bunnyhentman]

I don't have a lot of experience with changa, but quite a bit with dmt extractions and combining dmt with other psychedelics. My advice:

If this is your first time with smoked dmt, do it from base level sobriety (not on any other substance). You will learn about the particulars of the substance and understand smoked dmt's specific personality better. It's a unique experience/roa and best to learn the territory before complicating it. If you have enough material to "waste", start off with a small toke (~25mgs) to get a feel for the taste and technique, and to get used to holding the smoke in your lungs. Then wait 15 minutes and try again with larger dose. A lot of people can't hold the smoke in their first try and it's pointless to waste a big lungful of dmt smoke.

Smoked dmt when you have consumed other substances can be qualitatively different and much stronger. In my experience, smoking dmt on other drugs such as cactus extractions, lsd or RCs amplifies the dmt exprience, makes the visuals more intense (and makes me more prone to immersive open eye visuals) , and most importantly makes the dmt last significantly longer (and feel infinitely longer).

In about 30 minutes the dmt will be all out of your system, you'll be basking in that lovely dmt afterglow, and that is the perfect time to dose a little a little and let the night go on from there.

Since this is all of your first time, I recommend smoking in turn with 2 sober helpers near by. That way someone is on hand *just in case* you drop the bong, get anxious (it's uncommon but not unknown to vomit from changa or even pure dmt) or suddenly jump up and run off blindly. At lowish doses none of those things are likely to happen, but the five minutes it takes for smoked dmt to run its course can feel like an eternity when someone has a bad experience. I've had to, for instance, stop someone from jumping in a lake at night when they were blinded from smoking dmt on top of a sizeable amount of lsd.

Oh also, this might just be me but I have found interesting relationship between smoked dmt and cannabis. If I'm stoned when I smoke dmt, the dmt seems to scrub the weed right out of my brain and I'm left feeling refreshed and crisply sober. If I smoke cannabis too soon after dmt, it just truncates my afterglow.

 

[Flickering]

This was an interesting take on it, thanks for your answers.

I don't have a lot of experience with changa, but quite a bit with dmt extractions and combining dmt with other psychedelics.

From what I've read they're pretty similar anyway. After all changa IS DMT plus something else (kind of). I've been told changa is the way to go because its longer duration gives you more time to process everything; it's less about total incomprehensibility, and has more of an aya vibe to it.

If this is your first time with smoked dmt, do it from base level sobriety (not on any other substance). You will learn about the particulars of the substance and understand smoked dmt's specific personality better. It's a unique experience/roa and best to learn the territory before complicating it. If you have enough material to "waste", start off with a small toke (~25mgs) to get a feel for the taste and technique, and to get used to holding the smoke in your lungs. Then wait 15 minutes and try again with larger dose. A lot of people can't hold the smoke in their first try and it's pointless to waste a big lungful of dmt smoke.

We'll be starting sober, and I agree I wouldn't want another psychedelic layer there already the first time I go into it. Perhaps later I can try it on the tail end of an acid trip, and MUCH later at the peak, if I get experienced with it.

I actually wanted to try a test dose first, I've heard the smoke is pretty harsh. Others however have told me not to, because sub-breakthrough doses can be very nerve-racking, and you don't want to break through with that kind of negative association on your mind. They say it's best to dive straight into the deep end so you don't even have time to think about what you've just done to your poor ego. What do you think of this? I'm not sure which way to go about it now.

Since this is all of your first time, I recommend smoking in turn with 2 sober helpers near by. That way someone is on hand *just in case* you drop the bong, get anxious (it's uncommon but not unknown to vomit from changa or even pure dmt) or suddenly jump up and run off blindly. At lowish doses none of those things are likely to happen, but the five minutes it takes for smoked dmt to run its course can feel like an eternity when someone has a bad experience. I've had to, for instance, stop someone from jumping in a lake at night when they were blinded from smoking dmt on top of a sizeable amount of lsd.

That seems like a smart idea, especially since we'll be doing it near the ocean (apparently DMT appreciates water, I've heard this from several sources now). The idea with going in together was we'd all be in that space at the same time, and if one of us has a nasty experience, he/she won't be able to contaminate the next person's trip with that anxiety. But then, I certainly don't want to have to stress about drowning while I'm in hyperspace. No real harm taking turns.

Oh also, this might just be me but I have found interesting relationship between smoked dmt and cannabis. If I'm stoned when I smoke dmt, the dmt seems to scrub the weed right out of my brain and I'm left feeling refreshed and crisply sober. If I smoke cannabis too soon after dmt, it just truncates my afterglow.

Right - we'll probably leave it to a few hours later anyway, but I'll keep that in mind. I guess the DMT is just so much more powerful than cannabis that it blots it out?

Ricardo: not sure about the ratio, I'll have to find out when I actually get the stuff. But I'll be sure to ask, I definitely don't want to overshoot this dose. As long as I break through this time, that's enough for me, sounds plenty heavy.

 

[jason7]

Flickering; do NOT, I repeat NOT take three hits of acid and then smoke a bunch of DMT. I just have a bad feeling about this. What if the DMT hit leaves you traumatized due to feeling yourself being eaten alive by a T-Rex and then you start getting messed up on acid right after that? Could turn out okay, or could go South.

 

[john bishop]

Hey, is you again! Lol

to answer your question no I have not partaken in ayahuasca but some stuff is in the works. I'm planning a ceremony for a friend currently working out the details. I'm trying to convince him we can do it much better / cheaper at home and there is no need to fly to South America. I'll be guiding / sitting with him. ANYway...

Based on what you said about your experience with LSD I would take 1 hit first then decide the rest after you return from hyperspace. I can't stress this next part enough: DO NOT SMOKE DMT IN A HOT / DRY AREA. If you are intent on smoking it in the dunes or whatever you need to bring enough water to at least put your feet in. This will guarantee a gentler ride

Please remember that you have passed through enough pain and that you can learn as much and maybe more by feeling content joyous and free. There is no need to suffer to gain knowledge and wisdom. Sometimes it is a necessity, but not always.

 

[john bishop]

Oh, I missed one of your very important questions. Smoke a shit ton of DMT and hold it in as long as you can. Go all the way man it is what it was designed for :D

 

[Ismene]

Let me know if you think "changa" is any different to simply smoking DMT flick. I'm having trouble with the idea that a few breathfuls of a leaf can act in any way as an MAOI. To put it in perspective to take oral DMT I need 300mg of a powerful MAOI like moclobemide and give it 30-45 minutes to work. The idea a leaf can do the same job in the time it takes to take a few breaths just doesn't sound logical.

 

[Flickering]

Ismene: Interesting. I've never smoked DMT or changa before, so I won't be able to compare. It sounds like the sort of thing that ought to be tested with a double blind experiment if possible.

to answer your question no I have not partaken in ayahuasca but some stuff is in the works. I'm planning a ceremony for a friend currently working out the details. I'm trying to convince him we can do it much better / cheaper at home and there is no need to fly to South America. I'll be guiding / sitting with him.

Good luck! I agree there's no need to fly to Peru for that. Of course your intent, setting, expectations etc. will themselves have a huge effect on the trip.

During my ayahuasca ceremony, on the second night right around the time things were getting very nasty, my mind went back to a warning someone had given me about taking the stuff. His warning had planted a fear deep in my psyche, and now that fear was coming to fruition. At the time, being in a rather magical frame of thinking, I interpreted this self-fulfilling prophesy as a curse. It's definitely something you want to approach with as many positive messages and intentions as possible; identify the bad and parse it.

Based on what you said about your experience with LSD I would take 1 hit first then decide the rest after you return from hyperspace. I can't stress this next part enough: DO NOT SMOKE DMT IN A HOT / DRY AREA. If you are intent on smoking it in the dunes or whatever you need to bring enough water to at least put your feet in. This will guarantee a gentler ride

Yep, this is what I'll do. Spreading the dose makes an acid comeup gentler anyway. We'll be near the ocean when we go up on the changa.

Please remember that you have passed through enough pain and that you can learn as much and maybe more by feeling content joyous and free. There is no need to suffer to gain knowledge and wisdom. Sometimes it is a necessity, but not always.

Thanks. I'll repeat that to myself too.

 

[jason7]

Hey, is you again! Lol

to answer your question no I have not partaken in ayahuasca but some stuff is in the works. I'm planning a ceremony for a friend currently working out the details. I'm trying to convince him we can do it much better / cheaper at home and there is no need to fly to South America. I'll be guiding / sitting with him. ANYway...

Know what's even better than ayahuasca? Ibogaine. That's right, ibogaine is much more interesting and ibogaine extract is available though I don't know about in the US. It totally resets your brain. If you're an opiate addict it can get you off it (I don't think you are personally but maybe others reading this). Some people are transported to the spirit realm, meaning it's almost exactly like near death experiences. That makes me wonder if NDEs are chemical in nature but it could just be coincidence.

 

[Flickering]

I passed up my one chance to do ibogaine once. I've deeply regretted it ever since.

 

[bunnyhentman]

I actually wanted to try a test dose first, I've heard the smoke is pretty harsh. Others however have told me not to, because sub-breakthrough doses can be very nerve-racking, and you don't want to break through with that kind of negative association on your mind. They say it's best to dive straight into the deep end so you don't even have time to think about what you've just done to your poor ego. What do you think of this? I'm not sure which way to go about it now.

I've heard people say that. From my own experience, the fear can get you on small or big doses. For me it's more about being prepared to let go than it is dosage. It's like swimming in an ocean and getting drawn into a big wave, if you push with the wave you are in for an uplifting experience, if you resist the wave you get rolled along the bottom of the ocean floor.

That seems like a smart idea, especially since we'll be doing it near the ocean (apparently DMT appreciates water, I've heard this from several sources now).

Without going too woowoo, yes I have noticed DMT appreciates water, and have witnessed some pretty archetypal spontaneous self-baptisms under the influence.