• BASIC DRUG
    DISCUSSION
    Welcome to Bluelight!
    Posting Rules Bluelight Rules
    Benzo Chart Opioids Chart
    Drug Terms Need Help??
    Drugs 101 Brain & Addiction
    Tired of your habit? Struggling to cope?
    Want to regain control or get sober?
    Visit our Recovery Support Forums
  • BDD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic

Seratonin Syndrome: Safe doses/combinations?

N

nomadi

Greenlighter
Joined
Feb 20, 2015
Messages
15
Hi, everyone- thanks for taking some time to check out my question. What I need to know is:

Is there an interaction between St John's Wort and tyramine (aged cheeses, cured meats, etc)? I saw on a couple sites that at normal doses (150mg a couple times a day) there shouldn't be an interaction (like there is with the pharmaceutical version of the plant- MAOIs)?

Also is it unsafe to take St. Johns Wort with tryptophan? I read that 3 - 4 grams of tryptophan can be as effective as SSRIs. I'm thinking I'd like to cut down to 1 or maybe 2 grams, then add the St John's Wort- all doses split up and taken at different times of the day. I know combining something that increases serotonin levels with something that stops it from breaking down or being reabsorbed can be dangerous and cause serotonin syndrome. So am wary.

I'd also like to supplement with Tyrosine- maybe start at 500 to 1000- a relatively low dose it seems like, again, because of studies that describe giving up to 30 grams of the drug a day. I've also read an article citing a study which used up to 1800mg of St Johns Wort.

Update: clarification: that's 1800mg of st johns wort alone, not with tyrosine.

All my sources were educational sites- I don't have the links though. If you want/need them, I can go through my search history and try to post them.

Thanks!
 
SJW isn't a strong MAOI so I don't see why you couldn't do that.

Even consuming large amounts of tryptophan should be fine; the rate limiting step for serotonin synthesis is conversion of tryptophan to 5HT. Not all of it will turn into 5ht, a lot is simply excreted again.
 
Any natural food, herb is usally never strong enough to have any drastic affect on your mind, and the only OTC med I can think you definitely want to keep out of your way if you're taking a serotonin releasing/balancing drug is dxm robitussuin cough syrup. But other than that I don't think you can buy anything otc that releases enough serotonin to cause a big interaction, excluding cough syrup. Just be careful and talk to your doc. He will most likely know haha
 
Any natural food, herb is usally never strong enough to have any drastic affect on your mind,
Click to expand...

There are plenty of herbs and other "natural" substances that can interact negatively with all sorts of drugs, that's why it's important to ask :)

Saint John's Wort can cause pretty serious issues if you take it alongside MAOI antidepressants or some SSRI/SNRI drugs, for instance.
 
Heart problems?

Great. Is it better to just take 5HTP? I read that it doesn't take much b6 in diet to metabolize it at such a rate that it becomes serotonin peripherally. I read that best case, most of that is just excreted; worst, too much can enter the blood stream and potentially be unhealthy for the heart (endomyocardial fibrosis). Cultures consuming/diets high in plantain are said to increase the risk of the condition.

sekio said:
SJW isn't a strong MAOI so I don't see why you couldn't do that.

Even consuming large amounts of tryptophan should be fine; the rate limiting step for serotonin synthesis is conversion of tryptophan to 5HT. Not all of it will turn into 5ht, a lot is simply excreted again.
Click to expand...
 
welll- just in case anyone was interested, i found this great post/article:

http://www.bluelight.org/vb/archive/index.php/t-287832.html

It seems like taking 5-htp for long period of time of if you have a heart condition is a bad idea.

i tried the tryptophan for awhile but without much affect. there are too many variables, i think, to use it as an effective therapy (for depression). for example, you need to take it with high carb meals, to increase insulin levels in the blood (which helps the molecule cross the blood brain barrier). so.. i am just trying st johns wort. there is a study that says it had been effective at around 1800mg a day- so i take 2 or 3 non-pharmaceutical (affordable) caps twice a day. will see. maybe i will start supplementing with the tryptophan again to up the availability (hopefully) by some degree of serotonin, for SJWs MAOI activity...

any input would be appreciated.
 
wezface said:
Have you tries Sam-E?
Click to expand...

not consistently. does it help? what kind of depression do you have- and what dose did you use (if i may ask)?

a problem with sam-e is it is very expensive. i tried tmg- trimethylglycine.. it is cheep and converts to sam-e (among other things- so not all of it). so you need a very high dose so like other precursors, it's a very variable treatment.
 
nomadi said:
not consistently. does it help? what kind of depression do you have- and what dose did you use (if i may ask)?

a problem with sam-e is it is very expensive. i tried tmg- trimethylglycine.. it is cheep and converts to sam-e (among other things- so not all of it). so you need a very high dose so like other precursors, it's a very variable treatment.
Click to expand...
I have not used it as I am on an SSRI and an SNRI so it's a bad idea for me to add more serotonin/dopamine agonists. I just have heard some people having luck with it so it might be worth looking into if you can get around the price issue.
 
Parabolan said:
Serotonin syndrome can be a very horrible experience... try to avoid combos that induce it... my experience was nearly fatal "SSRI + MDMA + Amphetamines"
Click to expand...

Wow- that seems like a dangerous combination even without the SSRI, mdma and amphetamines. I think these over the counter supplements can be very effective if taken at high enough (and safe, and appropriate) doses, and properly- taking into consideration how they act upon and are acted upon by the body. I wish there was more of a guide and research to using these affordable substances. It's unfortunate that the health field is lead by primarily for-profit companies. Anyway...

I mean- is serotonin syndrome all at once? I just want to jumpstart the right chemicals in my body until I feel relief. Then reduce the doses to maintenance. I want to find the minimum threshold for mood and healthy focus.. and stay there.
 
I believe I got Seratonin Syndrome from a supposedly natural supplement, which turned out to contain Sibrutramine, a seratonin enhancer. 15 days ago I stopped usage of the supplement after almost fainting. Since then my head feels lite like jet lag, sensitive to light, pupils occasionally dilated, increased pulse. In fact 9 days after stopping was in hospital with fast heart 135 bps. At this point my heart seems to have stabilized back to a normal rhythm. .pulse at rest 62 to 80..versus 90 to 100. However I keep getting new symptoms like left hand jittery, exaggerated reflexes, dilated pupils. How long will this keep up
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top