Selfishness vs Suicide

[Jamshyd]

If the very people you live for (including yourself) actually accuse you of selfishness - on a regular basis... does that not mean that you're allowed to selfishly take your own life, because you're selfish anyway?

 

[n3ophy7e]

Taking your own life should never be a decision based on the mere outcries of others.

To specifically answer your question: you're allowed to do whatever you want. Don't let your actions, especially such definite and concluding actions such as your own death, be dictated by other people. YOU make your own decisions.

But, I must say, if these hypothetical people in this hypothetical situation are making you feel like your easy way out is suicide, or that your calling is suicide, you need to realise the fallacies of their words and implications.

Don't give in to their passive-aggressive alteriors motives. You're stronger than that Jam.

 

[Unbreakable]

I do not have the balls to kill myself....
But i have no problem pulling the trigger taking some else out and eating a steak afterwords...
if someone try's to hurt me or someone close to me... fuck them center mass

 

[kbrad]

^couldn't have said it better myself. I don't got the balls either.. had em once when i was drunk but that failed hah.

Anyways, that's something you must choose for yourself and not anyone else. If you truly were as selfish as they say you wouldn't care so much about what they think you should do with (or to) your life anyways. That being said it looks like you care a little bit more then you (or they) seem to think dont you? Everyone hits bumps in the road, but you shouldn't crash and burn but rather keep drivin' til the road ends.

 

[Jabberwocky]

I've gotten serious about it a few times. I would plan it all out, get all the money I had go off and gamble it until its gone or if there was a big win I would live, then go to the brothel for one last bang. I then proceeded to try and strangle myself, that didn't work and then I tried drowning myself fully clothed in a lake but the thought of my loved ones is what stopped me and then I had to live with the fact that I lost a few thousand, not once but a few times.

Any how it was a good learning experience nonetheless, I have been depressed though most of my life so that could of added to it. It does really make you wonder though after some time has passed who the hell were you back then? Perhaps there's evil spirits inside all of us and their way to get out is through suicide?

 

[panic in paradise]

I struggle with this, often. I live in pain, and its designed to progressively destroy me; fuse my spine other joints, or develope tumors on my spine which are inoperable. + more fun stuff, in the darkest most painful moments I ask, is it i who am selfish wanting to not live through this?

but, then there are good days... which are mediocre as far as my physical state, & then I recall the pleas I've made to others, and know they are right because just because things aren't the best, I know for a fact th
at they do get better.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

If the very people you live for (including yourself) actually accuse you of selfishness - on a regular basis... does that not mean that you're allowed to selfishly take your own life, because you're selfish anyway?

Jamshyd; I don't know what you're actually asking here (beyond the theoretical conundrum you have presented to us), but I want to address something here that most people get "wrong" when I talk to them.

Selfishness is a virtue.

If you weren't selfish, you would likely give away all that is dear to you; your money, clothes, food, drugs, what have you.... to people who probably don't need it anyways.

By having what you have for yourself, you are able to maintain life for yourself, and whatever you have extra, can be used to sustain other people's lives.

If you are homeless, have no money, no food, and no drugs... what are you to do? Leech off of the possessions and efforts of other people. That's being selfish; expecting other people to sustain your life.

If your parents weren't able to maintain a house, money, food, and so on, for themselves, how would they have brought you into the world? How would you be here today, except for an orphanage or such welfare?

If someone tells you "you are selfish" you do not get to selfishly take your own life. If you are selfish you wouldn't want to take your own life, because that leaves no life for yourself. Let's pretend that's true, rather, because arguing that soul matter can accompany more than one body is going to go into a spectrum of debate I don't wish to bring up here.

If someone tells you "you are selfish", they are likely jealous of your personal possessions, you as a person. Jealousy is used to make heinous comments towards people like "you are selfish" because the person who is jealous, wishes you to not realize that they are actually projecting. They themselves are selfish in the sense they are not wanting to sustain their own lives, they want you to sustain their life by giving them what you have.

So, to summarize, there are two kinds of "selfish" people refer to...

1) "Selfish" meaning "can live for onesself" - I'll use it in a sentence - You are so selfish with your money, thank God your wife has you, she would just spend all the money and leave you all broke with no food in the house.

2) "Selfish" meaning "cannot live for onesself" - Can you spare a dollar? I need to buy food, meaning drugs, but if I tell you I'm going to buy drugs, you won't give me "food" money, so can I buy drugs, I mean food? I'm too selfish to want to have a job to work for my own "food" (drug) money, and I don't care if I eat every day, I would rather sit around getting high on someone else's pennies and nickles that I so selfishly collect when drivers of cars throw them at me because I'm a stinky bum who sits at the highway exit waiting for people like Captain Heroin to cuss at me and consequentially throw water bottles at me, because that gives me the will to take other people's hard earned money so I can continue smoking crack without having to physically accomplish any work to keep my crack high going!

As you can see, people are selfish for themselves so as to accumulate more than they need for their own life - in order to sustain other people's lives. For example, if I wasn't selfish, I wouldn't be able to sustain my fiancee's life, nor our two cat's lives. Our older cat recently experienced kidney failure, if we didn't have enough money, she would be dead.

It is a virtue that I am selfish in this example, our cat would be dead if I wasn't selfish.

People can also be selfish for themselves so as to be a leech upon other people's efforts - in order to gain money, food, shelter, or drugs (to subsidize or pay for drugs directly or indirectly at times) because they cannot support their own life, and would rather take away from other people's existences.

So, to summarize, no, you cannot "selfishly" kill yourself. Killing yourself is an act of selflessness because you would be less yourself and more dead, lol am I right?

You could selfishly attempt suicide because you want a free night in a hospital bed, or you just want to go to a psychiatric hospital and have a benzo binge without having to do anything but lie in bed benzo'd out... but that's just silly and I can't imagine anyone wanting to do that. However I have seen someone try to kill themselves purely for the attention - they were a rather weak willed individual who has serious psychological problems. So I can imagine it, because I have seen it happen, but I can't imagine too many people being that pathetic.

So, to summarize one last time, suicide is an act of selflessness and living is an act of selfishness. This adds up because selfishness is a virtue.

I hope this wasn't an offensive or horribly controversial subject to share with you dark siders, I just figured you all deserved to know you all have a right and responsibility to be selfish individuals. :D

 

[aparenz]

The whole idea of selfishness itself has its gray areas. What one considers selfish, another considers completely reasonable.

 

[burn out]

no because all other things aside, you can't use the fact that you've been selfish in the past (or accused of having been) or even that you will be selfish in the future, as a means to justify a selfish act.

 

[ranunky]

What do you mean 'allowed'? That would depend on whose permission you're asking i guess... Ask a priest and they will say no, ask a nihilist and they'll say yes. If you ask me I would say it's up to you.

 

[Thick_as_a_Planck]

But by this reckoning being accused of something gives you more freedom to do it. We can substitute another word into your question and see where it takes us...

If people accuse me of being evil, does it allow me to be evil because they have already said I am?

The answer is no. If people repeatedly accuse you of something it's either because you are at fault, or they are. So the effect an accusation should have is to make you look objectively at the situation and see if you have done something wrong, or if your accuser is wrong. If the former, you can apologise or try to make up for it. If the latter, you can tell the accuser to go f**k themsleves.

 

[captainballs]

Selfishness is whatever you want it to be. I disagree with Captain Heroin about selfishness being an absolute virtue, but that is because I only consider the ends. For instance, if I am selfish and the symptoms of my selfishness are irrational greed, then I may end up having a pretty terrible life. I don't believe that having a virtue for the sake of having a virtue is virtuous. In reality, I am selfish and I believe that the word virtue implies something that some silent majority approves of. Because I am selfish, I will only appear to have virtues when it benefits me to use people who I think appreciate virtues.

With regard to this life, I do not believe it has any meaning beyond the aesthetics we've collectively prescribed to ourselves. Suicide is a reaction to discontent, and the only reason its effects hurt so many people is the meaning we've assigned to it. I'm a big proponent of suicide as a solution to life, because it is a voluntary exit. I am disgusted with the pompous psychiatric profession when it comes to suicide, because their mission is to treat the symptoms of severe depression with medicine that turns would be suicide victims into confused cardboard pharmaceutical science experiments.

It is well within my rights as a human being who did not choose to be born to leave. One of the main reasons I find some comfort in daily life is the knowledge that at any time I can just buy an exit bag, a tube, some tape, and nitrogen gas. I won't feel any pain and then I'll suddenly be gone. It is selfish, because I know that no matter how many people it hurts it really won't matter. For all you or I know, family' friends, and even life is just one big imaginary dream.

 

[ColtDan]

With regard to this life, I do not believe it has any meaning beyond the aesthetics we've collectively prescribed to ourselves. Suicide is a reaction to discontent, and the only reason its effects hurt so many people is the meaning we've assigned to it. I'm a big proponent of suicide as a solution to life, because it is a voluntary exit. I am disgusted with the pompous psychiatric profession when it comes to suicide, because their mission is to treat the symptoms of severe depression with medicine that turns would be suicide victims into confused cardboard pharmaceutical science experiments.

It is well within my rights as a human being who did not choose to be born to leave. One of the main reasons I find some comfort in daily life is the knowledge that at any time I can just buy an exit bag, a tube, some tape, and nitrogen gas. I won't feel any pain and then I'll suddenly be gone. It is selfish, because I know that no matter how many people it hurts it really won't matter. For all you or I know, family' friends, and even life is just one big imaginary dream.

very well said, awesome explanation

 

[captainballs]

I know people who have pulled the plug on themselves. One was a friend of mine who knew he was going to do it since he was 13. I was probably the only person who had to lie about how I felt when he put a rifle in his mouth at age 25. He was terribly depressed and life was uncomfortable for him. Every moment was filled with pain that no one really sympathized with fully. No one ever really understands another person's pain when the other person has such severe depression.

I was never guilty of pretending to understand how he felt, even though I suffer through depression that sometimes drives me to the edge of insanity. The people who did pretend were insulting him unintentionally. Their motivations were selfish in the sense that they willfully ignored the possibility that his emotional pain might not be worth living through. Such an insult, all based on this philosophy that Life holds a rainbow and a pot of gold for everyone if only they just keep trudging along through an ocean of shit.

 

[tdawe1]

I know people who have pulled the plug on themselves. One was a friend of mine who knew he was going to do it since he was 13. I was probably the only person who had to lie about how I felt when he put a rifle in his mouth at age 25. He was terribly depressed and life was uncomfortable for him. Every moment was filled with pain that no one really sympathized with fully. No one ever really understands another person's pain when the other person has such severe depression.

I was never guilty of pretending to understand how he felt, even though I suffer through depression that sometimes drives me to the edge of insanity. The people who did pretend were insulting him unintentionally. Their motivations were selfish in the sense that they willfully ignored the possibility that his emotional pain might not be worth living through. Such an insult, all based on this philosophy that Life holds a rainbow and a pot of gold for everyone if only they just keep trudging along through an ocean of shit.

Agreed, 100% to the letter. Great post.

 

[Jekyll and Hyde]

I tried twice, and neither time did I ever feel I was being selfish. Even looking back I don't feel that I did anything that serious. I have a feeling I'll have another attempt, its just like I feel its my fate.

 

[Help?!?!]

Forcing a severely depressed person to live simply so you can have them by your side forever is much more selfish than ending your own existence. The mere idea of forcing someone else to live for you when they obviously want to leave so badly is sickening to me. I'm sorry some people can't understand this or accept death by whatever means it happened to come by.

 

[DexysMidnightRuner]

i never used to think it was selfish. sometimes it still seems like a good idea. i would just go down in a spiral of drugs or one hearty o/d. i never thought it was selfish untill i heard the Dan Le Sac vs Scroobius Pip song - magicians assistant. enough said. if at any moment your in that place, first listen to this song.

 

[anterrabae]

I always was told that suicide is an act of selfishness. But having tried (in very deadly ways) since the age of 16, that's what mothers and psychs are supposed to tell you. Think of those you'll leave behind, blah blah. How about relieving them of the uncertainty and pain you give them constantly? The constant worry would be over.

Selfish or selfless, I guess I'm inbetween. When I was 17 I managed to yank some pentobarbitol from a vet and put my self in a coma for three days. Doctors said I probably wouldn't wake up and if I did I'd have severe brain damage. I'm 25 now, but I still often feel like that was my time 'cause I haven't done anything redeeming for a, gosh, what maybe 5 or 6th chance at life.

Nah, I choose not selfish. Everyone close to me knows I'm ill and still have ideations. It's bound to happen someday.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Selfishness is whatever you want it to be. I disagree with Captain Heroin about selfishness being an absolute virtue, but that is because I only consider the ends. For instance, if I am selfish and the symptoms of my selfishness are irrational greed, then I may end up having a pretty terrible life. I don't believe that having a virtue for the sake of having a virtue is virtuous. In reality, I am selfish and I believe that the word virtue implies something that some silent majority approves of. Because I am selfish, I will only appear to have virtues when it benefits me to use people who I think appreciate virtues.

Irrational greed is what's causing the negative impact on said life, not the selfishness in the first place.

It is well within my rights as a human being who did not choose to be born to leave. One of the main reasons I find some comfort in daily life is the knowledge that at any time I can just buy an exit bag, a tube, some tape, and nitrogen gas. I won't feel any pain and then I'll suddenly be gone. It is selfish, because I know that no matter how many people it hurts it really won't matter. For all you or I know, family' friends, and even life is just one big imaginary dream.

Do you remember your life/existence before you were born? If not, how do you know you didn't choose to live this life?