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  • EADD Moderators: Pissed_and_messed | Shinji Ikari

Scot government asks if they can decriminalise all drugs

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Ismene2

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Joined
Oct 29, 2018
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This came out of the blue: Rishi says strong disagree and I've no doubt Starmer will shit the bed too - he once said "Drugs are behind every crime" the silly bastard.

No 10 rejects call from Scottish government for it to be allowed to decriminalise all drugs for personal use​

Downing Street has rejected a call from the Scottish government for it to be allowed to decriminalise all drugs for personal use.

The Scottish government has proposed the idea in a policy paper which acknowledges that, because drug policy is reserved to Westminster, Scotland would only be able to implement this approach if the UK government granted it a section 30 order (an opt-out from the reserved power laws in the Scotland Act).

Scotland’s drugs policy minister Elena Whitham said:

These are ambitious and radical proposals, grounded in evidence, that will help save lives.
We want to create a society where problematic drug use is treated as a health, not a criminal matter, reducing stigma and discrimination and enabling the person to recover and contribute positively to society.
While we know these proposals will spark debate, they are in line with our public health approach and would further our national mission to improve and save lives.
We are working hard within the powers we have to reduce drug deaths, and while there is more we need to do, our approach is simply at odds with the Westminster legislation we must operate within.
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In response, No 10 said Rishi Sunak has no plans to alter his “tough stance” on drugs.

Asked if Sunak was likely to give the Scottish government the powers it wants to alter drug laws, a Downing Street spokesperson replied:

No. Whilst I haven’t seen those reports I think I’m confident enough to say that there are no plans to alter our tough stance on drugs.
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www.theguardian.com

Scottish junior doctors call off strike after getting 12.4% pay rise offer – as it happened

Scottish government says deal amounts to £61.3m investment in junior doctors’ pay, the best offer for this group in UK
www.theguardian.com www.theguardian.com
 
I think decriminilising substances is a start, yet testing needs to be done to make sure people are getting what they asked for. It'd be better (and in an ideal world) for people to get the substances they wish without any impurities etc.
But that's an idealised version. Testing would make everything better and reduce harm (along with HR info). We're behind the US and yet they're behind in other areas. It's silly to go fwd & bkwd at the same time ...
 
The US seems to decide state by state on things like Cannabis or Kratom. With some states having fully legalised one or both substances, and others neither of them (IIRC). I'm not sure what the situation is with other classes of drugs over there.

But obviously California consistently seems to be one of the more liberal, progressive, forward states, maybe something like the Netherlands is in Europe. We seem to be one of the least progressive or liberal and most backward countries in Europe. We've probably got our rabid newspaper and television mainstream media to thank for that :rolleyes:.
 
Forever Changes said:
I'm in the shocking position of agreeing with something the SNP says! o_O I need a lie down
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I did aswell but it turns out those clinics in Glasgow already overdosed 26 people when they tried tapering them off with pure h.

I'm all for legalisation but it needs to be implemented properly which when you look at places like vancouver and some states in the US is a disaster. Given the SNP take on covid, climate change and all the other woke agendas going on I really wouldn't trust them to do the right thing when it comes to drug legislation.
 
I'm happy to stick with the SNP and Scottish Greens and their woke agendas. :love: The opposite would appear to be the Tories or those other Tories, Sir Kid Starver's Labour. :poop:

Decriminalisation is just the beginning, hopefully something that the public can start to get on board with. Legalisation/regulation should be the end point. (I'm sure this is mentioned in the SNP's report.)
 
Think it says a lot about the SNP that this was their second choice for a constitutional challenge to the UK government behind the whole women can have dicks thing
 
The whole system is broke. All the top politicians of each party are members of the WEF. I used to rate SNP, after seeing what they did with covid lockdowns and the plans for climate change etc I wouldn't trust any politicians.

JohnnyVodka said:
I'm happy to stick with the SNP and Scottish Greens and their woke agendas. :love: The opposite would appear to be the Tories or those other Tories, Sir Kid Starver's Labour. :poop:

Decriminalisation is just the beginning, hopefully something that the public can start to get on board with. Legalisation/regulation should be the end point. (I'm sure this is mentioned in the SNP's report.)
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Corbyn started off so promising with a huge momentum of grass roots support.

I think people liked how different he was to the typical politician, he seemed honest and there was no bullshit.

But unfortunately he was destroyed by the media. If you don't play their game they will destroy you so it seems. It's very depressing that things have got to this stage. Perhaps they've always been like this, not sure. But it was clear to see what happened to Corbyn.

Anti-Semite? What utter bullshit! As if!

It was just the final straw of the media slur campaign and it killed and buried him.
 
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Seeing the UK drug treatment system falling apart makes me want to cry. I've mentioned that methadone only costs about $680/Kg but at least in this town they have decided that except for people who have been released from prison (in prison they DO try to match the dose to someone's dependence level), they give people 30mg/day. Methadone is long-acting but it's only half the potency of morphine.

Multiple trials have shown that 85-90mg of methadone/day is the most effective i.e. it's enough to stop any other opioid producing euphoria... and isn't that supposed to be one of the KEY things about methadone therapy? Even if you take something else, it doesn't get you high so your brain is rewired not to expect a high.

Sure, getting off methadone is TOUGH but it should be up to the user what dose stabilizes them and you cannot get any further when the client isn't stable.

It's political - there are people who think it's a 'free high' when in fact all ANY dose does after quite a short time is make the user feel normal. The Swiss experiment in which people were given heroin showed that the patients got their lives in order and most got jobs.

Oh yeah - and the UK doesn't consider people being treated for opioid dependence to be unfit for work in spite of the fact that they just reduced the number of hours the pharmacies are open... and you can't just go to any - you have to pick one and go to that one... which makes holding down a job difficult for many.

If you are asked to work late or come in at a different time... you cannot get your methadone.
 
AlsoTapered said:
Seeing the UK drug treatment system falling apart makes me want to cry. I've mentioned that methadone only costs about $680/Kg but at least in this town they have decided that except for people who have been released from prison (in prison they DO try to match the dose to someone's dependence level), they give people 30mg/day. Methadone is long-acting but it's only half the potency of morphine.

Multiple trials have shown that 85-90mg of methadone/day is the most effective i.e. it's enough to stop any other opioid producing euphoria... and isn't that supposed to be one of the KEY things about methadone therapy? Even if you take something else, it doesn't get you high so your brain is rewired not to expect a high.

Sure, getting off methadone is TOUGH but it should be up to the user what dose stabilizes them and you cannot get any further when the client isn't stable.

It's political - there are people who think it's a 'free high' when in fact all ANY dose does after quite a short time is make the user feel normal. The Swiss experiment in which people were given heroin showed that the patients got their lives in order and most got jobs.

Oh yeah - and the UK doesn't consider people being treated for opioid dependence to be unfit for work in spite of the fact that they just reduced the number of hours the pharmacies are open... and you can't just go to any - you have to pick one and go to that one... which makes holding down a job difficult for many.

If you are asked to work late or come in at a different time... you cannot get your methadone.
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Our local hero David Nutt said something similar - about it being political rather than scientific. I personally hope the next generation of politicians are "end the war on drugs" motivated.
 
new2drugs said:
Our local hero David Nutt said something similar - about it being political rather than scientific. I personally hope the next generation of politicians are "end the war on drugs" motivated.
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Until the 50-80 age group (those most likely to vote) WANT drugs to be legal and say so, politicians will follow that line.

Russell Brand didn't help much did he? That whole 'don't vote' was a disaster as their were fewer young voters and so their views were not considered to be important.
 
AlsoTapered said:
Until the 50-80 age group (those most likely to vote) WANT drugs to be legal and say so, politicians will follow that line.

Russell Brand didn't help much did he? That whole 'don't vote' was a disaster as their were fewer young voters and so their views were not considered to be important.
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One person usually can't make a difference.

War on drugs starting to get a bit old.. perhaps a chance to change it.. just need it to be popular
 
How do we treat dependent cocaine users, for example. It's the class we have had little or no success in treating.
 
I'm not sure if there is any method or policy in place for cocaine addiction treatment.

I've come across a couple of mentions suggesting that Modafinil could potentially be helpful to ease the cessation of cocaine. This does make sense as Modafinil is a wakefulness promoting agent type of stimulant, that has a much lower risk for abuse. But I've never heard of any treatment courses actually offering this, especially not in the UK.

When I accessed services for issues with multiple substances, including stimulants, many of the sessions were geared towards trying to understand the root cause of the using. This is a crucial step in treatment and recovery, but is often easier said than done. When your constantly in altered states of mind, it can be all too easy to forget why you started using in the first place, and so answering the root cause question can be beyond what a dependant user is capable of.

I've only just about figured out all of my root causes about ten years after I stopped attending services, so it can be a complicated, long and slow process for many people.
 
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