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Saying whatever I want - Why is it so difficult?

L

laVoix

Bluelighter
Joined
Jan 15, 2013
Messages
76
I generally have no problem talking to anyone when introduced on a party, business lunch, funeral; I have no problem talking when I have an "excuse" to talk like to a bank teller, person standing near a coffee machine, girl who almost got runned over by a bus etc. And I mean not just small-crap-talking, but I can be also very open and behave like I've knew a person for 5 years...

However I still can't say to everyone everything I'd like to say.
I recall before leaving my former flat, I wanted to make an experiment with this girl flatmate and just tell her I'd like to spend my last night in the flat with her. We talked here and there before, but she never wanted to go out with me (finding some excuses) and I've kind thought she wasn't digging me, which was a perfect target for this endeavor.

So there I was last evening, waiting for her to get out of her room, she was always in a hurry and I kind couldn't keep up with the speed to stop her, react and say something. I was literally sweating and shaking by the moment I stopped her in the corridor and said that I was leaving the flat tomorrow, she kind of wished me a farewell and was just to close the door of her room when I finally interrupted her and said "...and would you like to spend a night with me?" pointing to my room with a small gesture. Her face was petrified, she literally stopped breathing in disbelief, one of her legs was shaking...She was like "...what you mean?..." when finally she decided to play dumb and said that she is tired and can't go out or something, implying that I was (in her opinion) to go out downtown and she could not go with me and "spend a night" (?!).

I was very happy after for actually being able to execute the experiment. I couldn't care less about her answer, I didn't even listen that carefully. It was all engineered just for my own benefit, to demonstrate that I'm able to, under some circumstances, say whatever I want to whomever I want.

However sometimes I still feel trapped, like in a cage, unable to say anything to anyone I like or dislike or just go around at streets and yell at people, compliment or offend them, or do just about anything I feel like doing. And that's rather strange, for how impressive is the fact we're actually always in fear of being judged.

Any advice about getting more open?
 
maybe if you didn't view people as commodities to be bought and sold, social interaction as actions which increase and decrease the stock price, you'd have more success?

treat people more like, you know, people.

alasdair
 
Ok, it's a heart rate issue caused by the lack or practice in public speaking that triggers fear. What you feel is the onset of a panic attack actually caused by many fears but what distinguishes it from a real panic attack is that it stops when the exchange stops. Your body cannot tell what type of fears you have and believes it is in physical danger so it reacts with a panic attack response. The fears mainly are:

- fear of being judged (like alasdairm did)
- fear of being rejected
- fear of third party consequences (she tells her friends or calls the cops)

The fears arise because you don't know how your phrase will be interpreted by other people and unfortunately, the only way to remove the fear is to know exactly how it will be interpreted. How do you do that? You say it 100, 1000 times until you know what to expect. Don't ask girls in your room 1000x or you might get some serious sex, but you get the point lol.

There is a medication prescribed by doctors which removes heart rate variations but you'll have to pm me if you wish to know more because moderators atm are looking for any reason to remove my posts lol.

alasdairm said:
maybe if you didn't view people as commodities to be bought and sold, social interaction as actions which increase and decrease the stock price, you'd have more success?

treat people more like, you know, people.

alasdair
Click to expand...

What is this? Was ist das? :D
 
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If you didn't treat people like garbage and you weren't a jerk to everyone, then it wouldn't be so difficult.
 
alasdairm said:
yet another example of your criticising somebody for something you routinely do? i think so.
related reading: People and relationships are like trading stocks

alasdair
Click to expand...

Read between the lines man. He attempted to describe something that is best described in fight club, when Edward Norton goes to a discussion group for men with testicular cancer. I will quote it for your info:

Fight Club said:
Jack stares at a group of men, including Bob, who are all
listening to a group member speak at a lectern. The SPEAKER
has pale skin and sunken eyes -- he's clearly dying.

SPEAKER
I always wanted three kids. Two boys and
a girl. Mindy wanted two girls and
one boy. We never could agree on
anything.

The Speaker cracks a sad smile. Some men chuckle, happy to
lighten the mood.

SPEAKER
Well, she had her first child last month
a girl, with her...with her new husband...
And, Thank God. I'm glad for her,
because she deserves...

The speaker breaks down, WEEPS UNCONTROLLABLY.

Jack watches. A couple of the men go up to the speaker,
comforting him, leading him away. A LEADER takes the stand.

LEADER
Everyone, let's thank Thomas for
sharing himself with us.
Click to expand...

He's not describing his views, he describes the world around him as it is seen through his eyes. The cold, bitter reality of a dying man who was tossed by his wife for his condition, like you toss garbage.
 
yeah, well, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man.

:)

"if you read between the lines, often you'll just miss the lines"

alasdair
 
Just be yourself brother and say what comes to mind if it is nice to benign or interesting. Nobody wants to talk to a pussy you have to bloat your image in order to sustain a certain level respect in first off encounters with people. Lifting weights can help give you the confidence to achieve this it just pumps you up mentally imo
 
alasdairm said:
maybe if you didn't view people as commodities to be bought and sold, social interaction as actions which increase and decrease the stock price, you'd have more success?

treat people more like, you know, people.

alasdair
Click to expand...

Nah, he does exactly what everybody else does. He's just very honest about it.
There are no selfless actions. Everything that we do, every person that we keep around us, serves a purpose.
 
Animal Mother said:
Nah, he does exactly what everybody else does. He's just very honest about it.
There are no selfless actions. Everything that we do, every person that we keep around us, serves a purpose.
Click to expand...

Sorry, I call bullshit on this. This is not what "everybody else does." It might be what you do, but don't believe for a second that everyone is like this. Try being a good parent before you say that there are no selfless actions. Or try being in a long term relationship/marriage where the happiness of your partner matters just as much as your own. Or try taking care of a terminally ill family member, doing all you can to ease their transition into death while not burdening them with your own pain.

If you are going to view relationships with other people as commodities, fine. That is certainly your prerogative. Just don't expect a life of meaningful, fulfilling interactions with others who actually care about you. You reap what you sow. Cliche but most often true.
 
Animal Mother said:
There are no selfless actions. Everything that we do, every person that we keep around us, serves a purpose.
Click to expand...

This is something I think about a lot. It annoys me when people go on about someone that spends time/volunteers with Downs kids or the elderly or some shit like that.
It's always, "Look at him/her. He/she gives their time and money to helping these kids. They're truly dedicated and putting others above themselves." Or something like that.
Sure it's pretty nice to volunteer with handicapped people or the homeless or whatever. And it does help them. Certainly.
But you're still ultimately doing it to make YOURSELF feel good. As in, 'Look at me. I'm a good person!"
There are no selfless acts.

As to the original question I've found that the ability to speak honestly goes hand in hand with not giving a fuck.
It's hard when it's someone you care about but you've either gotta get over the fear of what will happen if you put shit out there or sit on it. Forget about it.
Seems best to pick your spots. Let some issues lie and save the anxiety filled conversations for matters that are truly of worth.
 
laVoix said:
I generally have no problem talking to anyone when introduced on a party, business lunch, funeral; I have no problem talking when I have an "excuse" to talk like to a bank teller, person standing near a coffee machine, girl who almost got runned over by a bus etc. And I mean not just small-crap-talking, but I can be also very open and behave like I've knew a person for 5 years...
Click to expand...

rotfl!

Any advice about getting more open?
Click to expand...

Join some kind of semi-professional social circle where you get to exercise social graces
 
Beachcat said:
Sorry, I call bullshit on this. This is not what "everybody else does." It might be what you do, but don't believe for a second that everyone is like this. Try being a good parent before you say that there are no selfless actions. Or try being in a long term relationship/marriage where the happiness of your partner matters just as much as your own. Or try taking care of a terminally ill family member, doing all you can to ease their transition into death while not burdening them with your own pain.

If you are going to view relationships with other people as commodities, fine. That is certainly your prerogative. Just don't expect a life of meaningful, fulfilling interactions with others who actually care about you. You reap what you sow. Cliche but most often true.
Click to expand...

Sister Beachcat is saying that there are many self-less actions, especially if you care for your child. Sister, not even suicide is a self-less action because at that particular time, the person may believe he is better off dead than alive, so in a way, he thinks it's benefiting him! He's doing himself a favor! If you care for your child, ultimately, it's benefiting you, and same, if your child does righteous deeds, if he/she strives and cares for others, ultimately it's benefiting him!

Then you argue that, if someone jumps into the river to rescue a drowning person, it's a self-less action. It may APPEAR like it is, but in fact, the person jumping calculated the risk of him not making out, and the benefit of becoming a hero if he comes out, and the chemical precursors in his brain triggered a response that was, I'm jumping. Whoever says, I jumped to save him without thinking I was gone make it is a liar. If you believe you won't make it, why jump? You both die...your life is wasted for nothing!

EVEN IF a son is dying of heart failure and the mother comes says "take my heart give it to him" and so she dies to save her son. Even that's not a self-less act. She's suicidal, she believes that by doing it, she's doing herself a favor and it's somewhat benefiting her, she may go to Janna, she may go to heaven, or believe she is. Her love for her son makes her suicidal and I have proved that even suicide is not a self-less action. Simple common sense.
 
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Animal Mother said:
There are no selfless actions. Everything that we do, every person that we keep around us, serves a purpose.
Click to expand...

trudat. all my freinds make me laugh, all my family i love, all my hookups/relationships are for sex/love

people do serve purposes BUT there is a rich emotional world out there and if your missing out on it then your at a distinct disadvantage because without emotion life is dull as shit
 
Without reading the other responses, what you may have going on is the fight or flight physical process (or response) to external surroundings. Read up on it if you are interested, it will save me explaining it poorly ;)
 
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