Miscellaneous Safety and efficacy of DMT, 5-Meo DMT, 4-ACO DMT, Mescaline and Ketamine while on Prozac and Klonopin

[Mycophile]

So last time I wasn't able to get many answers with a more open thread so I broke it down to 5 drugs I'd like to try.

I wish SOOO badly I could get off both my Klonopin and Prozac, but it ain't happening any time soon. I mean I have been told by my doctor he DOES believe I can get off Klonopin if I can quit caffeine which worsens my anxiety, but the prozac is probably for life.

I know shrooms and LSD work for me.

DMT people go back and forth on. Some say it isn't dangerous to use on prozac, just won't work, or work as well.

5-Meo-DMT I heard is NOT safe, but not sure.

4-ACO DMT i heard IS safe and will work as it is very similar to shrooms.

Mescaline I have heard WILL work, but may be be weakened.

Ketamine I have heard WILL work but may be be weakened by the benzos, and would have some level of relative safety in lower doses, but less so in higher doses.


What do people think of these assessments?

I wish doctors were just fucking health advisors you know? I wish I could just tell my doctor I want to take this that or the other thing, and they give me honest answers without judging me and harm reduction advice and explain to me how to MOST SAFELY take a drug if I am insistent on taking it anyway. I wish I could ask my psychiatrist if there's a natural herb I could use to replace my prozac.

Doctors and the whole medical system suck.
.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

Why does your doctor think you need to be on Prozac for life? I’d be worried about a M.D. who told me it was good to get off clonazepam but insisted that I needed to take an SSRI for life. They’re very dangerous drugs with lasting consequences. Plenty of studies on SSRIs to prove this. M.D.s ignore this because they’d rather script a non-controlled substance long term.

Anyway, I know people say that you can trip on Prozac, but if I were you I’d give up on tripping until I could get off the Prozac. It will at the best diminish your trips and at worst completely ruin them.

 

[Mycophile]

Why does your doctor think you need to be on Prozac for life? I’d be worried about a M.D. who told me it was good to get off clonazepam but insisted that I needed to take an SSRI for life. They’re very dangerous drugs with lasting consequences. Plenty of studies on SSRIs to prove this. M.D.s ignore this because they’d rather script a non-controlled substance long term.

Anyway, I know people say that you can trip on Prozac, but if I were you I’d give up on tripping until I could get off the Prozac. It will at the best diminish your trips and at worst completely ruin them.

My doctor never said that I need to be on Prozac for life, but being that at age 14 I got crippling social anxiety that wouldn't go away until I got on prozac, and that I didn't even need to get on Klonopin for 9 years later when too much caffeine led to a panic attack, I can say it's far more likely that i could get off Klonopin than prozac if i could quit or seriously cut down on caffeine, because there was in fact a point in time, before i drank coffee, when prozac alone was sufficient for my anxiety.

But TO BE ON NOTHING?

I tend to doubt that would work. It didn't work being on nothing at age 14, but i was just a kid, and now I'm 42, so I can't even imagine being off BOTH prozac and Klonopin, as it's hard enough to get off just one.

I don't think SSRIs are very dangerous, and have not seen studies proving this.

I'm sure they've had negative effects on some, but I'm not overly worried about it, but that doesn't mean that in an ideal world I wouldn't get off them.

I think benzos are more likely to lead to lasting effects, and that worries me at times, but really the 2 substances that make my life the worst are klonopin since it makes me tired and caffeine since it makes me anxious.

Prozac has never caused me any issues that I'm aware of.

But sorry no, if I'm lucky enough to get shrooms or acid again I'll do them if I want.

You have to understand that EVERY SINGLE RECREATIONAL DRUG I'VE TAKEN IN MY LIFE IVE BEEN ON PROZAC WHEN I TOOK IT.

So, I don't even know what the experience of tripping while NOT on an SSRI is like, and trust me, both shrooms and LSD work very well.

I honestly don't know that it weakens the effects of LSD at all as the few times I've taken acid it's hit me like a truck on only 2-3 hits.

Shrooms, I do believe perhaps the prozac could make visuals less common for me, but that said, my first time I got TONS of visuals and was on prozac, and many people say the best thing about shrooms isn't even the visuals, and i would agree that the feeling of peace I get on them is well worth it.

No offense, but i've had that advice given to me before, and I find it a bit annoying, because most likely I either won't be able to get off these drugs, or if i can it will take YEARS, and there's no real negative interactions i know between shrooms and/or acid with prozac and or Klonopin.

So i don't know what I'm missing if they are that much better off these meds, but I plan on growing shrooms soon, and I'm not letting my meds stop me from using them. I've already done them maybe 10 times on these same meds, and they work just fine.

 

[Cream Gravy?]

No offense, but i've had that advice given to me before, and I find it a bit annoying, because most likely I either won't be able to get off these drugs, or if i can it will take YEARS, and there's no real negative interactions i know between shrooms and/or acid with prozac and or Klonopin.

Fair enough, you do you.

 

[Quimchin]

So last time I wasn't able to get many answers with a more open thread so I broke it down to 5 drugs I'd like to try.

I wish SOOO badly I could get off both my Klonopin and Prozac, but it ain't happening any time soon. I mean I have been told by my doctor he DOES believe I can get off Klonopin if I can quit caffeine which worsens my anxiety, but the prozac is probably for life.

I know shrooms and LSD work for me.

DMT people go back and forth on. Some say it isn't dangerous to use on prozac, just won't work, or work as well.

5-Meo-DMT I heard is NOT safe, but not sure.

4-ACO DMT i heard IS safe and will work as it is very similar to shrooms.

Mescaline I have heard WILL work, but may be be weakened.

Ketamine I have heard WILL work but may be be weakened by the benzos, and would have some level of relative safety in lower doses, but less so in higher doses.


What do people think of these assessments?

I wish doctors were just fucking health advisors you know? I wish I could just tell my doctor I want to take this that or the other thing, and they give me honest answers without judging me and harm reduction advice and explain to me how to MOST SAFELY take a drug if I am insistent on taking it anyway. I wish I could ask my psychiatrist if there's a natural herb I could use to replace my prozac.

Doctors and the whole medical system suck.
.

Hello. In my life, I have done about 600 sessions with entheogens, using most of them at one time or the other. I say this to indicate that I have some experience in the area, certainly more than most doctors and psychiatrists. ALL of real entheogens: Mescaline, LSD, and ALL the DMTs do the same: (DMTs= 4 ACO,4 HO, 4 PO, however NN and 5 MEO require MAOI (I use Moclobemide ). ALL entheogens release your own stored-up life energy into your consciousness. To get yourself off klono y prozac, you actually do not need entheogens although they can accelerate the process. Here is how: Take the negative experience that you are using them to suppress, eg. anxiety, and instead of avoiding it, consciously experience and keep experiencing it. Go deep into and the through whatever emotions are there and look for your IDENTITES: creation of self, negative: I am powerless, I am not going to be able to (do, get, avoid whatever). I am worthless, I am bad, etc. Persist until the experience disappears. By letting those energies flow through your consciousness= experience, you will eventually exhaust their charge ergo their reality. I have done this for 500+ hours and am free of all the negative emotions.

 

[Mycophile]

Hello. In my life, I have done about 600 sessions with entheogens, using most of them at one time or the other. I say this to indicate that I have some experience in the area, certainly more than most doctors and psychiatrists. ALL of real entheogens: Mescaline, LSD, and ALL the DMTs do the same: (DMTs= 4 ACO,4 HO, 4 PO, however NN and 5 MEO require MAOI (I use Moclobemide ). ALL entheogens release your own stored-up life energy into your consciousness. To get yourself off klono y prozac, you actually do not need entheogens although they can accelerate the process. Here is how: Take the negative experience that you are using them to suppress, eg. anxiety, and instead of avoiding it, consciously experience and keep experiencing it. Go deep into and the through whatever emotions are there and look for your IDENTITES: creation of self, negative: I am powerless, I am not going to be able to (do, get, avoid whatever). I am worthless, I am bad, etc. Persist until the experience disappears. By letting those energies flow through your consciousness= experience, you will eventually exhaust their charge ergo their reality. I have done this for 500+ hours and am free of all the negative emotions. For more explanation get the book: How to do Precision Self-Therapy by Powell at www.psycanics.org (free shipping) or at Amazon.

Man, I appreciate your attempt at this, but this sounds like hocus pocus to me.

The kinds of social anxiety I experience when off of Klonopin and Prozac aren't simply psychological in nature but stem from chemical differences in my brain because I have OCD, Nonverbal Learning Disability, GAD and other conditions. I can't follow this long winded kind of spiritual stuff man. I just don't buy into it, and I've seen DOZENS of psychotherapists, psychologists, psychiatrists, neurologists as well as done neurofeedback and practiced Wim Hof method, auto-hypnosis etc, so I have already confronted these issues. They don't just go away by talking them or "facing the problem." If I am off my medications I will start freaking out that I am either making too much eye contact or not enough eye contact with other people and no amount of "facing it" will take care of the problem, only very specific substances like GABAergics or SSRIs (also Kratom) will work. We are dealing with NEUROLOGY here, not facing of fears. There are very clearly things going on in my brain that could be seen via some kind of scan, misfiring of neurons for example, and most likely lack of serotonin.

Also, I will eventually read your link, but upon first glance it looks complex, and I like simple answers. That doesn't mean EASY, it means simple and straightforward. All this talk about quantum this and that is just too much for me.

Let me ask you: have you ever experienced neurological issues like the kind I'm talking about, like eye contact anxiety? Because if not, you just don't get it. It's almost like a mild form of autistic tic: it has a root cause IN THE BRAIN that must be treated. It's not about facing fears. I've faced plenty of fears. It's a physical symptom just like an allergic reaction to eating peanuts or whatever, only it happens in my brain because I have certain chemical imbalances. If you don't believe in these imbalances, then we are at an impasse.

And you still didn't answer my question: which of these psychedelics are safe to take and will work WHILE ON Klonopin and Prozac if I can't get off of them?

 

[Quimchin]

Man, I appreciate your attempt at this, but this sounds like hocus pocus to me.

The kinds of social anxiety I experience when off of Klonopin and Prozac aren't simply psychological in nature but stem from chemical differences in my brain because I have OCD, Nonverbal Learning Disability, GAD and other conditions. I can't follow this long winded kind of spiritual stuff man. I just don't buy into it, and I've seen DOZENS of psychotherapists, psychologists, psychiatrists, neurologists as well as done neurofeedback and practiced Wim Hof method, auto-hypnosis etc, so I have already confronted these issues. They don't just go away by talking them or "facing the problem." If I am off my medications I will start freaking out that I am either making too much eye contact or not enough eye contact with other people and no amount of "facing it" will take care of the problem, only very specific substances like GABAergics or SSRIs (also Kratom) will work. We are dealing with NEUROLOGY here, not facing of fears. There are very clearly things going on in my brain that could be seen via some kind of scan, misfiring of neurons for example, and most likely lack of serotonin.

Also, I will eventually read your link, but upon first glance it looks complex, and I like simple answers. That doesn't mean EASY, it means simple and straightforward. All this talk about quantum this and that is just too much for me.

Let me ask you: have you ever experienced neurological issues like the kind I'm talking about, like eye contact anxiety? Because if not, you just don't get it. It's almost like a mild form of autistic tic: it has a root cause IN THE BRAIN that must be treated. It's not about facing fears. I've faced plenty of fears. It's a physical symptom just like an allergic reaction to eating peanuts or whatever, only it happens in my brain because I have certain chemical imbalances. If you don't believe in these imbalances, then we are at an impasse.

And you still didn't answer my question: which of these psychedelics are safe to take and will work WHILE ON Klonopin and Prozac if I can't get off of them?

I understand how you are thinking about this, but the entire paradigm currently used by psychology and neurology is totally, totally, absolutely wrong. How it really works is far too long to explain here, but I will try to summarize. All trans-physical experience (emotions, thoughts, identities, behavioral impulses and compulsions, etc.) are non-physical energies acting upon you, the being, the trans-physical life-energy entity of aware-will. You are having negative trans-physical experience. These are the effects of trans-physical energies acting upon you-consciousness. The causes of all non-physical experience is trans-physical energies (just as the cause of all physical experience is physical energies acting on the body). You, the being, have created all such energies and you can discreate them. Your brain is an effect, not a cause; it is a transducer between your body and you= the spirit, the trans-physical entity of Willful Consciousness.

Your experiential and behavioral problems have nothing to do with anything in the physical universe. And as long as you keep trying to change them at the physical level, you will never have much success. The problem in not in your brain. It is not in your body; it is in your being, in the sphere of conscious, life-energy that you are beyond the physical dimension. To use an analogy; you are trying to solve a quantum physics problem with Newtonian mechanics.

You say you like simple answers. Do you have a simple problem? Do you expect simple answers for a complex problem? What you need to apply here is the physics of trans-physical energies (emotions, thoughts, behaviors, etc.) The laws of trans-physical energy are just as precise and powerful as the laws of physical energy.

Yes, I have experienced such things, in my case, suicidal depression, of which I freed myself in about six months of applying psycanics daily. And I have worked with thousands of people on every kind of trauma in existence. It works, every time and with total precision.

If you keep arguing for your limitations, you get to keep them. If you keep operating in the paradigm that the earth is flat, your navigations will keep you lost.

And here is a greater truth that you will totally deny and call crazy: at the subconscious level, you are sabotaging yourself so that you do not get cured. There is a reason for this, but far beyond our scope here.

 

[Mycophile]

I understand how you are thinking about this, but the entire paradigm currently used by psychology and neurology is totally, totally, absolutely wrong. How it really works is far too long to explain here, but I will try to summarize. All trans-physical experience (emotions, thoughts, identities, behavioral impulses and compulsions, etc.) are non-physical energies acting upon you, the being, the trans-physical life-energy entity of aware-will. You are having negative trans-physical experience. These are the effects of trans-physical energies acting upon you-consciousness. The causes of all non-physical experience is trans-physical energies (just as the cause of all physical experience is physical energies acting on the body). You, the being, have created all such energies and you can discreate them. Your brain is an effect, not a cause; it is a transducer between your body and you= the spirit, the trans-physical entity of Willful Consciousness.

Your experiential and behavioral problems have nothing to do with anything in the physical universe. And as long as you keep trying to change them at the physical level, you will never have much success. The problem in not in your brain. It is not in your body; it is in your being, in the sphere of conscious, life-energy that you are beyond the physical dimension. To use an analogy; you are trying to solve a quantum physics problem with Newtonian mechanics.

You say you like simple answers. Do you have a simple problem? Do you expect simple answers for a complex problem? What you need to apply here is the physics of trans-physical energies (emotions, thoughts, behaviors, etc.) The laws of trans-physical energy are just as precise and powerful as the laws of physical energy.

Yes, I have experienced such things, in my case, suicidal depression, of which I freed myself in about six months of applying psycanics daily. And I have worked with thousands of people on every kind of trauma in existence. It works, every time and with total precision.

If you keep arguing for your limitations, you get to keep them. If you keep operating in the paradigm that the earth is flat, your navigations will keep you lost.

And here is a greater truth that you will totally deny and call crazy: at the subconscious level, you are sabotaging yourself so that you do not get cured. There is a reason for this, but far beyond our scope here.

I'm willing to ENTERTAIN that you could be correct, but where does all your knowledge come from that you think you know so much?

Have you ever had any training as a psychiatrist, psychologist or neurologist?

I don't think it's likely that literally EVERYTHING about psychology and neurology is wrong.

But let me give you a little test here to see if you are really so far out there that you can't be of help to me: my problems are TEN TIMES WORSE because of the amount of caffeine I drink. I know this, because I've been off caffeine, and suddenly I don't really need much Klonopin anymore, but I still need prozac.

The problem is that I didn't realize how much worse caffeine made my issues before I got addicted 20 years ago, and I got on Klonopin. The Klonopin helps the social anxiety, but does not get rid of the obsessive thoughts about my hating my life and having all these regrets, and the Klonopin makes me more tired so I need more caffeine to function, and the caffeine makes me more anxious so I take more Klonopin both for anxiety and to fall asleep with all that caffeine in my system.

But again, during those very rare times I've gotten off caffeine, I feel SOOO much better, and I know if I could get off both caffeine and Klonopin I'd feel SOO much better on a regular basis, but it's extremely difficult to do.

I have a psychiatrist who says he will help me, and that's my plan, when I'm ready, to try to slowly taper off both caffeine and Klonopin.

But nevertheless, at age 14 when these issues first arose, I wasn't a caffeine drinker, and yet, I still had OCD. I'm glad you overcome suicidal depression, but that isn't the same thing as OCD and Non Verbal Learning Disability, and your explanations are far more complicated than I believe the situation is.

So....if none of this has to do with my brain at all, then why do i feel 10 times worse when I drink caffeine and 10 times better when I don't???

And why did I suddenly start having these social anxieties at age 14 when I didn't as a child?

And what do you do professionally? Have you actually helped people overcome OCD and generalized anxiety disorder through this?

Cause no matter what you say, if you deny the impact of the brain on this I will have less respect for your opinion. I got neurofeedback and it was verified by an acclaimed expert that my brain waves are faster than most, and what you would see in many anxious people.

Please account for these factors.

 

[Mycophile]

I understand how you are thinking about this, but the entire paradigm currently used by psychology and neurology is totally, totally, absolutely wrong. How it really works is far too long to explain here, but I will try to summarize. All trans-physical experience (emotions, thoughts, identities, behavioral impulses and compulsions, etc.) are non-physical energies acting upon you, the being, the trans-physical life-energy entity of aware-will. You are having negative trans-physical experience. These are the effects of trans-physical energies acting upon you-consciousness. The causes of all non-physical experience is trans-physical energies (just as the cause of all physical experience is physical energies acting on the body). You, the being, have created all such energies and you can discreate them. Your brain is an effect, not a cause; it is a transducer between your body and you= the spirit, the trans-physical entity of Willful Consciousness.

Your experiential and behavioral problems have nothing to do with anything in the physical universe. And as long as you keep trying to change them at the physical level, you will never have much success. The problem in not in your brain. It is not in your body; it is in your being, in the sphere of conscious, life-energy that you are beyond the physical dimension. To use an analogy; you are trying to solve a quantum physics problem with Newtonian mechanics.

You say you like simple answers. Do you have a simple problem? Do you expect simple answers for a complex problem? What you need to apply here is the physics of trans-physical energies (emotions, thoughts, behaviors, etc.) The laws of trans-physical energy are just as precise and powerful as the laws of physical energy.

Yes, I have experienced such things, in my case, suicidal depression, of which I freed myself in about six months of applying psycanics daily. And I have worked with thousands of people on every kind of trauma in existence. It works, every time and with total precision.

If you keep arguing for your limitations, you get to keep them. If you keep operating in the paradigm that the earth is flat, your navigations will keep you lost.

And here is a greater truth that you will totally deny and call crazy: at the subconscious level, you are sabotaging yourself so that you do not get cured. There is a reason for this, but far beyond our scope here.

Also, if my issues have "nothing to do with anything in the physical universe" then where do they come from?

I don't believe in god or spirits, or at least I am agnostic. There is no proof that these "spiritual energies" exist.

So you are saying these problems manifested magically?

 

[Quimchin]

I answered you on your other post. I will not be putting any more TE into this.

 

[Mycophile]

I answered you on your other post. I will not be putting any more TE into this.

No, you never answered why caffeine exacerbates my problems if it's all "trans-physical energy."

Please humor me one time: why does caffeine make my issues so much worse if none of this has anything to do with the brain?

Caffeine affects the brain and nervous system, so if that's not involved in my issues it shouldn't matter. If you don't answer this, then I believe it's because you can't.

 

[RDP89]

I understand how you are thinking about this, but the entire paradigm currently used by psychology and neurology is totally, totally, absolutely wrong. How it really works is far too long to explain here, but I will try to summarize. All trans-physical experience (emotions, thoughts, identities, behavioral impulses and compulsions, etc.) are non-physical energies acting upon you, the being, the trans-physical life-energy entity of aware-will. You are having negative trans-physical experience. These are the effects of trans-physical energies acting upon you-consciousness. The causes of all non-physical experience is trans-physical energies (just as the cause of all physical experience is physical energies acting on the body). You, the being, have created all such energies and you can discreate them. Your brain is an effect, not a cause; it is a transducer between your body and you= the spirit, the trans-physical entity of Willful Consciousness.

Your experiential and behavioral problems have nothing to do with anything in the physical universe. And as long as you keep trying to change them at the physical level, you will never have much success. The problem in not in your brain. It is not in your body; it is in your being, in the sphere of conscious, life-energy that you are beyond the physical dimension. To use an analogy; you are trying to solve a quantum physics problem with Newtonian mechanics.

You say you like simple answers. Do you have a simple problem? Do you expect simple answers for a complex problem? What you need to apply here is the physics of trans-physical energies (emotions, thoughts, behaviors, etc.) The laws of trans-physical energy are just as precise and powerful as the laws of physical energy.

I’m sorry, but this is all non-scientific nonsense.

 

[Mycophile]

What do you all think?

I’m sorry, but this is all non-scientific nonsense.

Yeah, I think it's a bunch of bullshit.

The guy says he has 40 years of experience as a psychoanalyst and yet so does my mother and she's never even HEARD of psycanics.

It would be easy for me to ignore if I didn't have problems that this guy is proposing to have the solution for. Not that mine are really that bad compared to so many others, but spewing crap like this is harmful. He probably believes it, so I don't think he's lying, but when you hear this kind of thing and you know so many people out there have real issues this is insulting to my intellect.

So supposedly all anxieties, depression, etc. come from some sort of non-physical energy like bad-spiritual energy or some shit? So you have to believe in god or spirits or whatever for this to work?

You know, psychedelics can be a great teacher, but they can also make people go off the deep end, and I think that's what we have here.

 

[Quimchin]

No, you never answered why caffeine exacerbates my problems if it's all "trans-physical energy."

Please humor me one time: why does caffeine make my issues so much worse if none of this has anything to do with the brain?

Caffeine affects the brain and nervous system, so if that's not involved in my issues it shouldn't matter. If you don't answer this, then I believe it's because you can't.

Because caffeine, just as the entheogens, alters the resistance to the flow of energy in your body. You-consciousness are plugged into your brain and nervous system the way a CPU is into a MOBO. Anything that affects any part can affect the others.

 

[Quimchin]

What do you all think?

Yeah, I think it's a bunch of bullshit.

The guy says he has 40 years of experience as a psychoanalyst and yet so does my mother and she's never even HEARD of psycanics.

It would be easy for me to ignore if I didn't have problems that this guy is proposing to have the solution for. Not that mine are really that bad compared to so many others, but spewing crap like this is harmful. He probably believes it, so I don't think he's lying, but when you hear this kind of thing and you know so many people out there have real issues this is insulting to my intellect.

So supposedly all anxieties, depression, etc. come from some sort of non-physical energy like bad-spiritual energy or some shit? So you have to believe in god or spirits or whatever for this to work?

You know, psychedelics can be a great teacher, but they can also make people go off the deep end, and I think that's what we have here.

If your mother has 40 years as a psychoanalyst then why do you still have your problem?

 

[Mycophile]

If your mother has 40 years as a psychoanalyst then why do you still have your problem?

If you know anything about psychoanalysis you know that it's HIGHLY inappropriate to treat a son as a patient. In fact, that can really mess a lot of people up. That's why my mother has also been extremely careful never to treat me as one, and in many cases would tell me NOT to tell her my problems but rather, share them with a therapist, because it's inappropriate and because she can't maintain proper unbiased distance to treat me effectively. And also, even if I had actually been in analysis for 40 years (and I have seen MANY therapists) that doesn't mean I'd have overcome all my problems. Most people don't ever overcome ALL their problems, nor has my mother overcome ALL of hers, yet you claim to be "enlightened" and "free of all negative emotions" which are things that even highly advanced spiritual people I respect don't claim. To be free of all negative emotions would also most likely make you free of all positive ones.

Not to mention I don't have JUST ONE problem, but the one we were talking about isn't even something psychological but rather, neurological and OCD related, my eye contact anxiety, and I actually don't have that problem at the moment because I am medicated.

You know, I actually bought your book, and I'm going to check out at least some of it just out of interest, but I must say, the more you say the less I believe that you are really a skilled therapist.

Not to mention that you refer to yourself as "an enlightened being." You know, 2 people who I really respect and believe are probably enlightened are Wim Hof and Eckhart Tolle and yet neither EVER refers to themselves as enlightened and claims to be able to cure people of all their problems in 6 months.

Don't you think that that way of speaking about yourself is a bit hubristic and not in harmony with a person who has truly reached enlightenment?