RC's and the Internet

I am shpongled

I am shpongled

Bluelighter
Joined
May 9, 2007
Messages
640
Somehow I just cannot find the answer to this. Yes, I have used the search function. I want a definite answer: Is it legal to buy unscheduled RC's off of the internet? (Maryland, USA)

Is this a good idea? What are some chemicals to watch out for? Should SWIM take steps to ensure anonymity? Is it safer / easier for SWIM to trust his usual sources?

I'm not asking for sources, BTW

Edit: SWIM is looking for psychedelics, possibly in the 2C-family or similar. Suggestions are welcome.
 
Google's where it's at, son.

Nothing is ever totally anonymous.

And "SWIM" is awful. Please stop that shit.
 
I am shpongled said:
Somehow I just cannot find the answer to this. Yes, I have used the search function. I want a definite answer: Is it legal to buy unscheduled RC's off of the internet? (Maryland, USA)
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Do a search for "The Analogue Act," read its dictums, and decide for yourself what its ambiguities really mean. You may have to wait for the DEA to explicitly schedule the 2C-x series in the coming year or two before you get a "definite answer."

I am shpongled said:
Is this a good idea? What are some chemicals to watch out for? Should SWIM take steps to ensure anonymity? Is it safer / easier for SWIM to trust his usual sources?
Click to expand...
These questions require you to do your own risk assessments. No one here can answer them for you.
 
If it is unscheduled then yes it is probably legal, I say probably because with the analog act in the US you can't really be sure what the government could argue is an analogue. They even tried arguing that 1 4 butandiol was a analogue of GHB and were smacked down on that one.

The only way you know you're clear of the analogue act is completely novel compounds like salvia and kratom active ingredients.

There are a couple sheduled 2C substances so its a very grey area.

I personally would take steps to insure my real name and info doesn't show up in the vendors database, but then I am paranoid.
 
^^^^ Correct. And Operation WebTryp demonstrated that it's possible for the government to put internet salesmen away for 20 or 30 years for selling unscheduled chemicals, though that remains an extreme example of the risk given the current situation.

I predict these points will be moot within 12 months anyway.
 
Excuse the "SWIM" mistake. My mom never taught me proper forum etiquette.

tobala said:
^^^^ Correct. And Operation WebTryp demonstrated that it's possible for the government to put internet salesmen away for 20 or 30 years for selling unscheduled chemicals, though that remains an extreme example of the risk given the current situation.

I predict these points will be moot within 12 months anyway.
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Operation Web Tryp didn't prosecute any purchasers, in the US, which confuses me. And internet sales sites continue to exist, which seems extremely dangerous. Either the sites are run by dumb asses, or the DEA.

I think I'm going to stay away from buying anything off the internet for now.
 
^^^^
the question is unless your buying in bulk how much trouble could you get in for say 500mg of 2c-e doesnt seem like it would be more than misdeminor possesion a bullshit charge at best.
 
I am shpongled said:
...Operation Web Tryp didn't prosecute any purchasers, in the US, which confuses me. And internet sales sites continue to exist, which seems extremely dangerous. Either the sites are run by dumb asses, or the DEA.
Click to expand...
You are correct. WebTryp didn't prosecute purchasers (at least in the US. Refer to Operation Ismene for legal action against the UK customers of US vendors).

WebTryp was really a strategic ploy intended to provide fodder to justify the eventual scheduling of what are now known as "research chemicals." A couple of highly-publicized RC-related deaths made it easy to convict online vendors of selling "dangerous drugs," when the reality is that they are extremely safe when taken in sensible doses.

The fact is that out of all research chemicals bought, sold, and consumed over the Internet or otherwise, only about a half dozen have been implicated in causing death, and then only when they were used in high doses or in unsafe combination with other drugs. But it's a near-certainty that the DEA will base much of its argument for scheduling hundreds of PEA's and tryptamines on the tragedies in which 5-Meo-AMT and 2C-T-7 seemed to be a causative factor.

I believe that no purchasers were arrested for three reasons:

1. The DEA agreed to not prosecute those on vendor customer lists in exchange for possible depositions and testimony against these vendors if it was needed (it wasn't).

2. The DEA felt that their strategy of portraying the vendors as "evil pushers" selling "dangerous drugs" to "children" might have been compromised by prosecuting the "child-victims."

3. The DEA really cares about people and wants them to live long and happy lives.

Alright, make that two reasons. 8)

With regard to current Internet commerce in RC's, you have to keep in mind that WebTryp in many ways actually has increased trade. It gave RC's a lot of publicity in return for a few cheap arrests and convictions, as well as compelling vendors to adopt methods of immunizing themselves from prosecution.

Things are done much differently now because of WebTryp:

1. There are no website-based vendors operating in the US (if there are, they're--as you said--dumb asses). The majority are in Canada, Europe, and China.

2. US-based email vendors can remain anonymous using Hushmail and bullion transfers.

3. Encryption and proxy-blocking software provide still another layer of security for those who would exercise their right to be left alone.

But you are quite right in pointing out that, if there ever is a WebTryp II, it may come in the form of reverse-sting DEA sites. A US-based site selling RC's would be a red flag.
 
drew345 said:
^^^^
the question is unless your buying in bulk how much trouble could you get in for say 500mg of 2c-e doesnt seem like it would be more than misdeminor possesion a bullshit charge at best.
Click to expand...

Is there even a misdemeanor-level offense for possession of illegal psychedelics? Or are they all felony-level offenses? I've never seen any psychedelic possession offense that was a minor offense.
 
^^^
but if the chemical isnt specifically schechuled then there are no sentencing guidlines or laws in place. If they do charge you under analogue act do they just charge with possesion of the chemical they say its sustantially similar to? I just dont think you would be looking at prison time for posesing reasonable amounts of RCs that is just my opinoin however.
 
Here's the thing: under the Analog Act, the feds have to show that the substance was intended for consumption, not just substantially similar to a scheduled substance.

http://www.cognitiveliberty.org/dll/fed_analog_memo1.htm

So if, hypothetically, someone were planning to order potential analogs, they could probably immunize themselves from prosecution with two simple steps:

1. Make sure they own nothing indicating an intent to consume. No gelcaps, no logs of internet message boards dealing with consumption (ahem), no diaries talking about past or future consumption, etc.

2. Keep extensive documentation of their experiments, or intended experiments, using the chemicals. For instance, goldfish might make excellent test subjects, and our intrepid scientist could record his observations of goldfish behavior following the introduction of phenethylamines to the tank water. (Obviously not all amateur researchers would be rich enough to afford a video camera.) I highly recommend posting the experimental records somewhere off-site, for instance in a livejournal or myspace account. You never know what might mysteriously disappear during a raid.

If someone followed the above two steps and had a half-competent attorney, I honestly cannot imagine they could be successfully prosecuted under the Analog Act, regardless of the type of substance or the amount.
 
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