Benzos RC benzos in Europe and Africa

[AlsoTapered]

Hi,
I'm writing a booklet for Lifeline Publications. I see a lot of benzo usage, particularly RC benzos. All were made in the 1960s but never reached market. Ever wonder why?

So I would like to use the anonymity of BL to ask people how much of which benzos people are using.

The law is now making it a LOT harder for RC vendors to fulfil orders. I see stuff like clomethiazole and chlormezanone turning up on the clearnet. OK they will stop the withdrawal, but they are dangerous.

I don't know just how serious the problem is. Asking all of you is the only way to know.

If people provide personal experiences, they will be credited. I don't get paid a penny. I just worry that we are sitting on the next drug pandemic.

I HAVE worked out strategies for people to get off benzos but I'm not certain I will be able to publish them. So please PM me. I don't have a magic power but I will do my best.


I do not make, sell or otherwise profit from the sale of ANY CNS depressant and so I'm not about to point you to some dalkweb site.

BTW if you simply switch off all the lights and turn down the brightness of your monitor... that's NOT the darknet.

 

[Bleaney]

I loved the legal high era with the great proliferation of all types of RC benzos. This legal loophole allowed many of these 'designer benzos' to be brought to the market.

Since first getting hold of benzos during the legal high era, I've been using them on and off, and I'm currently using 2mg etizolam or clonazepam or anything with equivalent doses most days. I'm aware of the dangers and have already been through one cycle of crazily escalating doses, followed by a torturous taper down and an extremely difficult period of abstinence. Life is just so much easier with my little benzo crutches. My social anxiety and stress is just off the scale.

Most of the stuff on the UK clearnet sites consists of most of the well known benzos, and I've only just realised that it was pretty lucky to have been able to get hold of etizolam for so long, because suddenly all known sources have no stock.

I like etizolam not only for the effects, but also for the more favourable tolerance, dependence and withdrawal profile. I see that something called Tofisopam has emerged on one clearnet site, which judging by it's write up on Wikipedia, seems to offer similar advantages to etizolam. If etiz continues to remain unavailable (even on the darknet I've not been able to find any UK suppliers so far after a couple of searches over the last week or so) I'll probably give this new (to me) substance a go.

By the way I expect most EADD members are fully aware what the darknet is lol.

I'm not aware of any RC vendors on the clearnet in the UK. Most of the UK clearnet sites are sticking to the more easily available prescription meds. I think all UK RC vendors vanished after the NPS ban, with any remaining RC sites now being in mainland Europe or in the USA.

 

[AlsoTapered]

Well, it seems you take them because you NEED them. You also seem to stick to using only when required.

Etizolam & Pyrazolam should not be classified as being the same as flunitrazolam.

In your case, etifoxine is available on the clearnet and is a lot safer.

If that fails, clobazam (like etizolam) seems to have a plateau in it's dose/response. Beyond 20mg (equals 2mg of etizolam but lasts longer) it does no more. So WHY it's treated just like other benzos, I do not know.

I even found research that showed that beyond 20mg BID, it does no more.

IF people could just buy clobazam, it would be like Salt Lake City only selling 3.4% alcohol beer... but after the 3rd beer, it does no more.

How are you hanging in there?

I KNOW you need the medicine so I want to ensure you always have SOMETHING that will provide that much help. Not abusable, but just a mild anxiolytic.

But when people end up using hundreds of mg of etizolam?

All I know is that I was sent 100mg of the powder. I snorted the lot, walked down town, got my shopping & went to the bank. I remember it ALL so I say etizolam also has a plateau in it's dose/response curve.

I took 100mg of pyrazolam... and lost 5 days!

 

[Bleaney]

I think etizolam powder was kind of self-limiting in some way. I heard of people taking bags of the powder out on the town and dabbing at it during the evening. That could potentially have been god knows how many mg per dab, anything from 20-50mg? And repeated several times during the evening. It could have easily been 200mg consumed. One might have expected cases like that to be KOd for days. But that didn't happen.

But imagine if they had consumed 200 pills! They are not so self limiting. Once I made the mistake of buying a tray of 1,000 Etilaam Etizolam and after that I was pretty soon inevitably boshing them by the strip of 10. Multiple strips of ten. That really was not good.....

I agree that Etizaolam and Pyrazolam are very different to the 'heavy weight' benzos and they should be classed differently.

I will look out for Etifoxine and Clobazam.

I'm not sure about any benzo pandemic, I have only my own experience and what I read online. I guess there must be many thousands of people who either got onto benzos during the legal high era, or have been on them since the time when benzo prescriptions were offered far more readily than they are now. Many of those people will have had their prescriptions stopped and will be suffering, or forced onto the black market. Or forced to go private if they have the funds.

The pendulum of NHS benzo prescribing has swung from one extreme to another. From being readily prescribed in their hey day, I'd say that it's currently swung far too far in the direction of NHS benzo prescriptions being at best difficult to obtain in most circumstances.

 

[AlsoTapered]

I think people don't know the difference in dependence potential.

But as I say, for your purposes their ARE alternatives. to people dabbing 200mg of etizolam each evening, it seems like an alcoholic pretending they are in recovery by only drinking 3.4% beer.

We shall see.

While your withdrawal may be nasty (but we can deal with that), I have NO idea how to manage people using those vast amounts. As you know, 24mg of diclazepam a day (360 mg of diazepam) I got help for... BUT because I know people. But anyone using 24mg of diclazepam now... good luck! I guess seizures will result in hospital and only further seizures will result in SOME treatment and only MORE seizures will result in treatment.

I'm old enough to remember the barb epidemic. But at least people KNEW how damaging barbs were. Even now the UK still scripts barbs for people who have been on them for 40 years+ and will NEVER get clean. I bet they get nothing except a lack of seizures.

In truth, phenobarbitone is likely to become the 'methadone of benzos' but it's got lots of bad size effects. Ian Curtis - need I say more.

 

[AlsoTapered]

BTW anyone who has run a training-set on the work of Dr. (Captain) James. T. Cook. Will find that yes, benzos more potent than LSD are possible. But that would be to unleash hell.

 

[Imaginarium]

So I would like to use the anonymity of BL to ask people how much of which benzos people are using.

I can only speak to South Africa. Currently, there is widespread use of benzodiazepines across the country with the types varying geographically and culturally. The most commonly used benzodiapines would be diazepam, alprazolam, clonazepam, lorazepam and oxazepam (in descending orider of frequency of use - noting clear metro-rural differences). I’m aware of the use of flubrotizolam (0.5mg) among a small group - this was recent and it is definitely not used widely.

I don't know just how serious the problem is. Asking all of you is the only way to know.

We’ve done some population size estimates of the number of people who use benzodiazepines extra-medically (as well as other drugs). I’m happy to share this with you when it comes out.

 

[Bleaney]

I think people don't know the difference in dependence potential.

But as I say, for your purposes their ARE alternatives. to people dabbing 200mg of etizolam each evening, it seems like an alcoholic pretending they are in recovery by only drinking 3.4% beer.

We shall see.

While your withdrawal may be nasty (but we can deal with that), I have NO idea how to manage people using those vast amounts. As you know, 24mg of diclazepam a day (360 mg of diazepam) I got help for... BUT because I know people. But anyone using 24mg of diclazepam now... good luck! I guess seizures will result in hospital and only further seizures will result in SOME treatment and only MORE seizures will result in treatment.

I'm old enough to remember the barb epidemic. But at least people KNEW how damaging barbs were. Even now the UK still scripts barbs for people who have been on them for 40 years+ and will NEVER get clean. I bet they get nothing except a lack of seizures.

In truth, phenobarbitone is likely to become the 'methadone of benzos' but it's got lots of bad size effects. Ian Curtis - need I say more.

At my worst, I was sipping unknown amounts of a phenazepam /PG solution. Later on I was taking 20-40mg of etizolam pills daily. When it was eventually time to taper down, I also chose to use diclazepam for my taper, and I made a PG solution for the purpose of being able to very gradually and accurately reduce from all those crazy doses. I cant recall the exact doses now, but I started reducing from somewhere in the region of 12mg of diclazepam. I actually found the first few reductions relatively easy. That must have meant that I was lucky enough not to have built a substantial physical dependency to high doses. I found cutting down to 8mg very easy (maybe that meant I was taking far more than I actually needed), cutting down to 5 or 4 mg was a bit less easy. Then it started getting harder. I took the last few mg very slowly as it got more and more difficult the lower the dose. Unsurprisingly 1mg and below was the most difficult part, and I was on like 0.2ml (0.2mg) doses for some time at the end, not being able to bring myself to stop completely, before I eventually realised that those doses were so small they couldn't possibly be doing anything and so I eventually quit altogether. It must have been about 6 months of taper to get to that point, and then 6 months of abstinence at the end.

It was absolute hell. The insomnia was a killer, and only made my mood, stress, and anxiety even worse.

I'm really quite excited about the new alternative benzo Tofisopam, I think it deserves a new thread which I've just posted.

 

[AlsoTapered]

Someone else mentioned phenobarbitone. Now, it's much less controlled that other barbs (due to slow onset and long duration - it's not abusable) and it's dirt cheap and used in every nation on earth. They make 25mg pills so people can start with 1 on day 1, 2 on day 2 and so on.... slowly and carefully finding the absolute minimum that makes the withdrawal SAFE.

After all, if you end up having seizures all the time, seizures refractive to other antiepileptic drugs, you end up on phenobarbitone anyway....

Oh and also IF you go to a doctor and say you are taking 200mg of phenobarbitone a day and want to stop.... their is a protocol.

 

[Tranced]

My experience with xannie powder was extreme, and is documented in logs I kept from the time (they are a mess in so many ways).

Not sure I fancy being in a book though.

 

[AlsoTapered]

And their are much worse things that alprazolam.

In the coming months we will begin to hear the horror stories of people using flunitrazolam who were SHOCKED when the price went up x5, they can no longer afford to feed their habit and they lose everything...

I know, it sound's unbelievable, but if you take the drug or die, people WILL choose to sell their chattels just to hold of that withdrawal for a few more months.

That is why phenobarbitone seems like a good option. I mean, FFS it's so simple to make that NOBODY can hold the position of being the only supplier. It's used medically so much and is on the list of UNODC essential medicines, so it's never going to be impossible to get for a reasonable price.

It's used to treat many animals. I was given some phenobarbitone for use in horses. You can imagine the sheer size of those pills ;-) I suppose quite safe... you would choke on them!

 

[Tranced]

Simple to make benzos you say...

 

[AlsoTapered]

Simple to make benzos you say...

Simple to make phenobarbitone.