Opioids rapid opiate detox

[hustlababy09]

Has anyone heard of rapid opiate detox or better yet actually done it?? My boyfriend's mom actually heard about this and is thinking about paying for him to do it. I'm interested too but I don't know much about it... We've both been on Methadone for 5 years (and heroin for a little over 7) and it's just getting tiring. I've tried to detox myself cold turkey, I've detoxed myself slowly (taking my dose down a couple mg. per week) but I always seem to come back... I feel like I'm really ready and if this really does work, it sounds like the least painful way. (lol..) Any information would be good. Thanks!!

http://www.opiates.com/rapid-detox/waismann-method.html

 

[ActiqAnnie]

I don't know this method specifically but there are several drugs that induce immediate withdrawal as well as ibogaine therapy which you can look up on here (although I think it's only legal currently in Mexico and Canada).

My issue with "rapid detox" (in my case, anyway) is that it only address one part of addiction/dependence. In my opinion, detox/withdrawal is often viewed by a user as the hardest part of quitting - and I think that over-simplifies things immensely. I'm sure there are some cases where fear of withdrawal is a huge hurdle and perhaps, once done, the user is able to stay clean. But in my experience, having myself repeatedly "detoxed", that initial step is only a small part of the process. What I'm trying to say is that before you spend a lot of money on a rapid detox program (they're usually pretty pricey), make sure it really fits your needs. It's easy to think that if you can avoid being dope-sick you can avoid using, but the psychological aspects of addiction and dependence make every situation different and much more complicated than the places selling treatment make it seem.

Hopefully someone will have had an experience more specific to this particular program. Good luck!

 

[yb62338]

^ What ActiqAnnie said is very, very true. Most users look at detox as the primary step in quitting; in reality, it's just the beginning. In my opinion, psychological dependence is far worse than physical. The physical withdrawals go away in a week or two (although for Methadone, they can last well over a month) but the psychological cravings last for a lifetime.

I don't know about rapid detox and to tell you the truth, it seems like it would be extremely unpleasant. I would go with the tried and true methods.

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Rapid detox isn't worth it; do a slow taper with methadone. That is going to be your best bet.

 

[ActiqAnnie]

Btw, just do a Bluelight search for "Waismann".

There are several mentions of it, including a thread from someone who has tried it:
http://www.bluelight.ru/vb/threads/565346-Got-clean..now-what?highlight=waismann

I gotta say though that personally, even in addition to what I posted earlier about detox being only the first and not always most significant step, that this "rapid detox" type stuff seems suspicious. It feels like they're trying to sell a "quick and easy" scheme for something that will NEVER be quick, or easy.

Perhaps it has been wonderful for some people. But it's expensive and sounds pretty invasive...it mentions a lot of sedation and "surgery". But they don't talk at all about long-term sobriety. You pony up the cash, they shock your body into detox, you are through the withdrawal stage and then what? What keeps you from taking another hit? (The answer to that has to be internal fortitude, self-control and perseverance) And the problem is that none of those things come from "rapid detox".

I don't mean to be demoralizing. On the contrary, I believe that when you are really done, you have what it takes to quit.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

After reading the OP I thought I had a lot to say but someone ( ^ ) covered just about every point I wanted to hit on. GREAT posts, Annie.

You've mentioned the years and years of of heroin and methadone use and my first thought is that your post-acute withdrawals (PAWS) are going to be a bitch. You've depended on substances physically and mentally for pretty much all of your adult life, right? Your body pretty much doesn't know how to function or cope at all without them so I absolutely don't think that this is something that would be advantageous for you and I worry that if you pursued it, you'd sink a lot of money into it, feel like absolute shit mentally (if not physically because this isn't perfect) and WHEN you go back, you'll just feel even more hopeless.

If you took 7 years getting to this point, you can't reverse it in a weekend while you're sleeping. You need time to adjust and find ways to address why you've been using and what it's done to your life. You can't approach this like you approached getting high - a quick fix won't do the job.

If you'd like more information about treatment options, I'm in your area and I'm studying addictions counseling so feel free to PM me any time.

 

[marcusinnj]

about 12 years ago i did the rapid detox MULTIPLE times...at a dr. in NJ just outside of philly-folllowed by a naltrexone implant that would block effects of opiates for 3 months. the procedure was touted as a miracle "cure" for not feeling the withdrawal symptoms, and IME that was not the case AT ALL. It was aweful-every time. The first time I could afford the full treatment-so was put under and flooded with naltrexone, which RIPS the opiates off the recptors, and was kept under for 4 hours-supposedly the worst of it-when i woke up and when back to hotel i flopped around for the next 12 hours in the kind of withdrawal that is IMPOSSIBLE to describe or feel unless you've been through it that way. and then was physically ruined for the week after. Not as sick just drained badly. then i had this thing in stomach that blocked opiates-but as soon as it wore off, like clockwork i use(thats my fault-didn't want to stop) next time i went back i couldn't afford the whole procedure-so i just got the implant-with a full blown habit, awake, and left the office-withing 15 minutes i went from nodding out to INSANE w/d-and went into a state of shock i believe because i literally blacked out...was told later that i was opening car door on nj turnpike trying to jump out-then same thing14-15 hours tremendous pain, and week of feeling useless-as well as every other standard symptom..no sleep, weakness, depression...after 3 months BAM did it AGAIN...knowing what i was in for..truly INSANE..
Moral of the story-they suck...really doesn't do much in any way at all outside of a regular detox....having done a bupe detox taper i'd say IME that was the easiest, and best method I've ever experienced....

 

[hustlababy09]

After reading the OP I thought I had a lot to say but someone ( ^ ) covered just about every point I wanted to hit on. GREAT posts, Annie.

You've mentioned the years and years of of heroin and methadone use and my first thought is that your post-acute withdrawals (PAWS) are going to be a bitch. You've depended on substances physically and mentally for pretty much all of your adult life, right? Your body pretty much doesn't know how to function or cope at all without them so I absolutely don't think that this is something that would be advantageous for you and I worry that if you pursued it, you'd sink a lot of money into it, feel like absolute shit mentally (if not physically because this isn't perfect) and WHEN you go back, you'll just feel even more hopeless.

If you took 7 years getting to this point, you can't reverse it in a weekend while you're sleeping. You need time to adjust and find ways to address why you've been using and what it's done to your life. You can't approach this like you approached getting high - a quick fix won't do the job.

If you'd like more information about treatment options, I'm in your area and I'm studying addictions counseling so feel free to PM me any time.

The way you worded that really got me. I didn't even think about it that way.. it's true. I'm 22, I've been dependent on opiates since right after my 16th birthday. The things I've read about the rapid opiate detox were all written by doctors that perform it, and after reading what you read and what marcusinnj said, I've definitely changed my mind. It did sound too good to be true. I'm in a really difficult spot right now.. methadone is really taking a toll on my body, on my life... of course it's 4909245 times better than when I was using (and I'm 7 months clean... longer than I've ever been clean before) BUT I would like to be a "normal" person again and not have to worry about methadone and it's restrictions. I can't miss a dose, I have to figure out how to pay for it, it's difficult to travel because I either have to know way in advance and get carry bottles or guest dose, etc. Thanks for the responses though, you guys had very valid points!

 

[hustlababy09]

about 12 years ago i did the rapid detox MULTIPLE times...at a dr. in NJ just outside of philly-folllowed by a naltrexone implant that would block effects of opiates for 3 months. the procedure was touted as a miracle "cure" for not feeling the withdrawal symptoms, and IME that was not the case AT ALL. It was aweful-every time. The first time I could afford the full treatment-so was put under and flooded with naltrexone, which RIPS the opiates off the recptors, and was kept under for 4 hours-supposedly the worst of it-when i woke up and when back to hotel i flopped around for the next 12 hours in the kind of withdrawal that is IMPOSSIBLE to describe or feel unless you've been through it that way. and then was physically ruined for the week after. Not as sick just drained badly. then i had this thing in stomach that blocked opiates-but as soon as it wore off, like clockwork i use(thats my fault-didn't want to stop) next time i went back i couldn't afford the whole procedure-so i just got the implant-with a full blown habit, awake, and left the office-withing 15 minutes i went from nodding out to INSANE w/d-and went into a state of shock i believe because i literally blacked out...was told later that i was opening car door on nj turnpike trying to jump out-then same thing14-15 hours tremendous pain, and week of feeling useless-as well as every other standard symptom..no sleep, weakness, depression...after 3 months BAM did it AGAIN...knowing what i was in for..truly INSANE..
Moral of the story-they suck...really doesn't do much in any way at all outside of a regular detox....having done a bupe detox taper i'd say IME that was the easiest, and best method I've ever experienced....

Wow.. that sounds horrible. You're right- they DO make it sound like a miracle drug, and when I looked into it, it said it could cost a couple thousand at some places... I'm not going to take a loan out, spend all that money, and go through a horrible experience like that. Thanks for the quick reply.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

Have you used suboxone before? It's not a miracle but I think if you'd really like to give yourself the best chance at maintaining sobriety from opioids, it could be useful. You'd need to ween down on the methadone to about 30mg/day first otherwise the transition would be extremely rough but at least with suboxone it would address several of the drawbacks you mentioned with methadone.

What is your methadone dose by the way?

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Just FYI regarding naltrexone...

I have only talked to two people who have successfully quit via naltrexone. The key is you have to go through regular acute withdrawal! If you take naltrexone on opiates, you will regret it.

After regular acute opiate WD has passed by, naltrexone can be used to accelerate the recovery process.

"Rapid detox" is a scam if there ever was one.

 

[hustlababy09]

Have you used suboxone before? It's not a miracle but I think if you'd really like to give yourself the best chance at maintaining sobriety from opioids, it could be useful. You'd need to ween down on the methadone to about 30mg/day first otherwise the transition would be extremely rough but at least with suboxone it would address several of the drawbacks you mentioned with methadone.

What is your methadone dose by the way?

I'm on 125 mgs. I've thought about trying Suboxone but if I get all the way down to 30 mg. I might as well just wait it out && get off everything completely. I was going to go to rehab to detox in 2009 but I found out I was pregnant && I've heard that detoxing while pregnant runs a high risk of miscarriage, so I just stayed on it.

 

[Cane2theLeft]

^ I hope I don't offend you here but I think you're wildly off-base in thinking that if you got down to 30mg and transitioned to suboxone that you'd have just as much success completely stopping. Suboxone will help you manage the craving so much more than total abstinence and the blockade effect provides a waiting or 'cooling-off' period anytime you think you really want to or need to get high. The latter benefit isn't even present with methadone. Sure methadone will jack up your tolerance but if you wanted to get high on heroin, you wouldn't have to wait 2-3 days while abstaining from it to get the effects.

Suboxone provides assistance in handling the craving albeit at a much lower level than methadone but with the benefit of not requiring you to go to a clinic everyday and this is huge for so many people. It's not just a matter of inconvenience - so many people still view themselves as junkies to a degree because everyday they have to think about going out to get their drug, figure out how to pay for it, many still get strong effects from it and so on. With suboxone you take a pill in the morning and that's it. You don't have to spend so much time thinking about the drug and how you're going to get it, how it's effects will impact you, how missing a day will affect you, how you're going to get the cash if you're tight at the moment and so much more.

Suboxone isn't a miracle cure and there are absolutely drawbacks but if you genuinely want to transition to a life free from opioids, I think it could be a beneficial step for you in that direction.