Opioids question about opiates

[weekendwarrior11]

I am a first time poster and new member so if I say anything wrong or against the rules please help me out and don't report my account. I really enjoy this website. But anyways I read a lot of these forums (obviously only the ones that interest me) but when looking up stuff mainly on opiates I see people say "I have no tolerance at all but, say, 30 mg of hydrocodone get them nodding or feeling good. I have a friend of a friend I was conversing with about the topic and he was really confused because he would hypothetically take 4 5/325 vicoden and that would get him really decently buzzed. Like the higher end of buzzed. But the thing he is confused about is that he has a relatively long and heavy past of using opiates (mostly roughly around said doses). BTW he has done doses big enough to get him very buzzed (but not even close to what he reads of being " low" doses) of hydromorphone-2 to 4 mg, hydrocodone-15 to 20mg, oxycodone-15mg,morphine er and ir-20 to 40mg, codeine120+mg, and there is probably more but you get the picture. He always gets really buzzed but never "nods off" but is curious and would like to "nod off". He is scared to take to much but with the doses he reads of people with " no tolerance" taking he feels like he isn't being ballsy enough. Can any of you give me any safe insight on this? My friend of a friend has a good job, good girl friend and good life but him and his girlfriend like to have a little fun when they can which isn't often but yeah. I basically just don't want them to hurt themselves but would also like to give them safe advice to reach the "goal" they are trying to achieve. Thank you and like I said if I personally broke any rules or did something wrong just be nice and let me know. Thanks for reading all of this. Oh and BTW he told me he won't iv anything and currently has 4mg hydromorphone for him and his gf. Thanks oh and BTW the doses mentioned are doses where he feels worried to take more. Those are his max doses at this point. But he doesn't understand why he can never "nod off" he gets messed up at these doses but still could say drive a car or do difficult tasks just feels good and messed up. He told me he is looking for that "close your eyes and nod in and out" kind of effect and like I said I want to at least give him the info to SAFELY achieve that.

 

[tacodude]

Codine compunds bind to the kappa sub receptor more selectively as it goes to hydro then oxy form. Same for morphine with mu receptor. Mu seems to cause more narcotic (sleep inducing) effects while in my experience codeine can be sedating, but it doesn't induce sleep the same way at all in my experience. Some interpret the effect as euphoria although I find codeine to be analgesia and euphoria like morphine although just making me tired and not inducing sleep or the nod.

Be careful though as they are playing with causing respiratory depression and bringing themselves near death. Please find narcan to have on hand to reverse overdose.

 

[granddeception2]

Paragraphs? plz

 

[weekendwarrior11]

Yeah sorry about the no paragraphs. I don't have a computer and use my phone so I can't exactly see everything I'm writing on the screen at once.

But yeah he told me dilauded (sp?) Was the one that floored him the most. Which I thought was weird cause he only snorted a 4 mg on two lines like an hour and a half apart and I always thought the bioavailability of morphine-derivitive opiods was terrible.

He has never tried heroin and read on some other threads that dilauded was pretty close to the same feeling and how people were talking about a 8 mg dose being a good starter dose to get a nod. Which seems crazy with how my friend was talking about snorting 2 2mg lines.

Idk I've taken 30 mg morphine and got absoluter nothing from it. So basically I'm asking why would he get so much better effect from hydromorphone then even OXYcodone? He said he never felt that "high" off opiates. He said he got way more euphoria from the hydromorphone then and codeine- derivatives. I would actually feel good off say 90 mg of codeine but absolutely nothing from 30 mg of morphine.

Sorry how choppy this post still is. I just wanna know some more about how these all compare, what's better ect.

Thnks

 

[Harrisment]

Hydromorphone and oxymorphone are stronger and produce more of a sedating buzz that is more likely to make you nod. Hydro and oxy codone are more stimulating, and far less likely to cause a nod. Morphine oral bioavailability is very low, so that's likely why you felt nothing from it.

 

[tacodude]

Hydromorphone and heroin are extremely similar in structure, but also produces substantially different effects that usually both lead to the "nod." They also both develop dependency and tolerance to a different degree and rate. Even opiates with a similar structure can be completely different in dose and bioavailability.

Again this is a dangerous level to reach as the respiratory depression and death risks are very real. If you want to help your friends invest in overdose prevention to be there for them... At the same time you can't let them rely on you to be there as you do not want to be an enabler of use.

As far as the difference in effect go back and read my original post and let it guide you to your own research path leading to to your own truths.

 

[Cliffy78]

Your friends playing with fire here. It's impossible for anyone to tell u what to tell your friend to take in 3rd person to make him nod, and honestly I don't think many here would be comfortable doing so because he could die so easily.

To me nodding off means I took to many pills, period. I've been there just off oxy, which IMO for me anyways, is stronger than dilaudid. I'm sure that's not technically right but to me it just "feels" stronger, but I take everything orally so that may have something to do with it. Opiates, in some way anyways are judged by every person that takes them as to what has the best, or preferred, feeling to said individual. Oxy works best for me, but I know some people who prefer morphine, or opana(oxymorphone), or dilaudid(hydromorphone) and some like codeine it's all very odd lol.
Everyone's different, I tested my boundarys by starting with my normal base dose and then I take 1/2 doses every 2hrs until I was where I wanted to be. That's what worked for me but I wasn't looking for a nod per-se but just that nice clear headed buzzed feeling where I just enjoy everything a little bit more. Plus pills are bloody expensive lol. Your friend knows his limit so he'll figure it out I'm sure. He doesn't seem reckless so he should be safe.

Grab some narcan for him so he can be safe about this if he's gonna go there. I oded off a lame 100mg or so over the course of about 6-8hrs last month after losing a bit of tolerance. It can happen at anytime for anyone. I have never felt that bad before and certainly never oded before. Very scary shit, not as cool a way to die as I once thought that's for damned sure. Thankfully I was still somewhat with it to recognize what was going on and a suboxone brought me back down but if that didn't work I would've died on my couch cause I wasn't trying to deal with cops even if I died. I'm just saying all this cause I've been using pills for years now and I have a decent script so I have a bit of a tolerance so it's crazy that a lame 100mg or so almost did me in, it surprised the shit outta me and took me a bit to realize what had happened. I just want ur boy to be safe is all so get that narcan, a suboxone may work but I think I just lucked out. If 4mg makes him feel "good" then why build a tolerance unnecessarily? Nodding out is actually a dangerous thing for someone pretty opiate nieve IMO...
Of course anyone here or anywhere can come up with a dosage to make him nod but I just don't think it would be safe, that's just my opinion though, I just got enough shit on my conscious without your buddy nodding off and not waking up cause if my idea for what he should take to nod off. He knows his body best so if it takes 4mg to feel ok then, well it'll take a little bit more but tell him to go up in very small increments, 1-2mg at a time to be as safe as possible. I stagger doses but I'm very used to doing that and I know my body, but that's the only way I ever nodded off. My nod was by accident though and I'm a bit reckless the way I take shit and I did almost make a fatal error on myself, and I know myself pretty fuckin good lol. Just be careful brother...

 

[Erikmen]

I am a first time poster and new member so if I say anything wrong or against the rules please help me out and don't report my account. I really enjoy this website. But anyways I read a lot of these forums (obviously only the ones that interest me) but when looking up stuff mainly on opiates I see people say "I have no tolerance at all but, say, 30 mg of hydrocodone get them nodding or feeling good. I have a friend of a friend I was conversing with about the topic and he was really confused because he would hypothetically take 4 5/325 vicoden and that would get him really decently buzzed. Like the higher end of buzzed. But the thing he is confused about is that he has a relatively long and heavy past of using opiates (mostly roughly around said doses). BTW he has done doses big enough to get him very buzzed (but not even close to what he reads of being " low" doses) of hydromorphone-2 to 4 mg, hydrocodone-15 to 20mg, oxycodone-15mg,morphine er and ir-20 to 40mg, codeine120+mg, and there is probably more but you get the picture. He always gets really buzzed but never "nods off" but is curious and would like to "nod off". He is scared to take to much but with the doses he reads of people with " no tolerance" taking he feels like he isn't being ballsy enough. Can any of you give me any safe insight on this? My friend of a friend has a good job, good girl friend and good life but him and his girlfriend like to have a little fun when they can which isn't often but yeah. I basically just don't want them to hurt themselves but would also like to give them safe advice to reach the "goal" they are trying to achieve. Thank you and like I said if I personally broke any rules or did something wrong just be nice and let me know. Thanks for reading all of this. Oh and BTW he told me he won't iv anything and currently has 4mg hydromorphone for him and his gf. Thanks oh and BTW the doses mentioned are doses where he feels worried to take more. Those are his max doses at this point. But he doesn't understand why he can never "nod off" he gets messed up at these doses but still could say drive a car or do difficult tasks just feels good and messed up. He told me he is looking for that "close your eyes and nod in and out" kind of effect and like I said I want to at least give him the info to SAFELY achieve that.

From my perspective the dosages above do not represent a grand tolerance, but tell your friend that this is a really thin line he is on. A little bit more, or repeat this too often may only bring pain and difficulties to stop. If that´s not the case already. Does your friend feels he´s somewhere else when he is high. I mean, does he feel his is under another dimension or dreaming? That happens when you are really off. One may nod, but before that there might be a feeling of warmth and out of the body mind thinking that indicates the dosages are well above the normal and should not drive or work whenever like this. Everyone else will notice, event though some will not have any idea of why they will notice. Job, wife and home, along with health should be really protected. Inform that to your friend, as this could all go away in a matter of days, quite quickly I´d say.

 

[weekendwarrior11]

Thank you guys for all of your input!

I was necessarily trying to get a actual like number dose I should tell him to take, or anything like that. I was more looking for personal experiences people have had with upping their dose safety (as possible) to achieve the feeling anyone abusing opiates tries to reach. Which cliffy was very helpful with.

I just worry about my bud because he's kind of a loose cannon and you can't really tell him what to do. He does what he wants. So I wanted personal knowledge for when I'm hang in out with him I at least know my stuff.

And I've read tons and tons of threads where people talk about the dangerous opiate road you go down by abusing it but as I'm sure many of you know you can only help someone who will accept the help.

I've personally done most every typical drug out there over the years -besides heroin and meth- and had my time with each one individually. But for some reason,fortunately, my brain doesn't allow me to continue using a drug that starts messing with important things in my life I.e.girlfriend, job, family.

I think drugs are amazing substances and can bring people to a state of mind you would never achieve without them. But As cliffy said its like playing with fire.

Thanks for your posts guys. I like to think I know my drugs but don't know much when it comes to pills.

 

[Erikmen]

Maybe the number is less. Whatever the amount might be, use less, each time, all the time. Not an easy thing to do. Easier to say than to actually do. Trying to use with an interval of at least 48 hours would be very nice. keeping in mind the tolerance.
For some of us that can be even more difficult as you just suffer much more frequently and do not get away from what´s bad for ya.