Psychedlics Vs. Traditional Spiritualism

[iksaxophone]

My girlfriend and I have been having debates about the comparitive values of psyhedelic drugs and spiritual traditions (i.e. Buddhism). In particular their value for generating perspective and insight into ones own life, and to a lesser extent for bringing spiritual experience. I'd love to know what everyones' thoughts are!

 

[TheAppleCore]

I've been studying Eastern spiritual philosophies and practices for awhile now, and I've recently been quite focused on Zen Buddhism. At first I was fascinated, finding countless parallels between the teachings of these spiritual traditions, and the insights I found on psychedelics. Since then, I've become a bit more jaded, categorizing these thoughts as more delusion than enlightenment.

Zen still remains a sealed box for me. I'm starting to get to the point where I'm questioning whether or not the whole experience of satori is nothing more than the realization that essentially there is no satori, and your ordinary mind doesn't need any special transformation.

The only insights I've ever found to be TRULY life-changing are fairly down-to-earth, pragmatic ones, like how to budget my time effectively.

YMMV.

 

[silverbirch]

I think the best is to combine the two. LSD showed me that pure peace does exist and so I now pursue it through (sober) meditation. It was like a window into enlightenment, as it fades quickly.

If you're interested in this topic I recommend a book called Zig Zag Zen which compares the psychedelic experience with the teachings and traditions of Buddhism. There is a lot of information in the book.

 

[rujex]

Guess the point is to implement spiritual experiences, insights into ones own life etc. into daily life. Traditional-Spiritualism - as i understand it - isn't so much about enlightenment, its about becoming a better person in general. To reach this goal its necessary to find knowledge about oneself - the object of transformation. Spiritual experiences are just a part of the process. E.g. the conversion of Paul the Apostle. Paul isn't holy because of his spiritual experience, but because he managed to changed his life for "good". His spiritual experience triggered only a transformation process and gave him the insight, that his former believes and living style was "bad".

Psychedelics may trigger processes, but they show no way, as traditional-spiritualism tries to. There is no guidance.

 

[ramajamsam]

I kinda see serious psychedelic use as succeeding where traditional spirituality fails - seeking enlightenment is just another form of chasing the dragon to me, it just limits ones ability to actually enjoy life & be in the present moment.

I've developed a sort of pantheistic outlook from my years of heavy tripping (as someone who's staunchly opposed to religion that's quite a drastic change), but if I were to try & turn that into anything resembling religion or a "spiritual path" in the traditional sense that would be insulting the reality of why I see things that way, all it would do is pull me out of experiencing things as they are.

I often prefer to think of things in a philosophical context rather than a spiritual one, that's more in line with my natural way of thinking...I definitely fall into the "existentialist" category, almost nihilistic but like Nietzche I see true nihilism as extremely problematic, aas it doesn't exactly support happiness or empathy...

In my eyes, reality is simply chemistry, everything we think, everything we feel, see, & hear, has some kind of chemical reaction behind it. When I experience anxiety or stress, reminding myself of this can help me not "listen" to it.

What we consider "reality" is merely our own perception, & our perception comes from our chemistry - so, reality = perception = chemistry, or reality = chemistry...meaning is in the eye of the beholder, engaging in traditional spiritual paths just seems foolish to me, although it can be fun to learn about some of them sometimes nonetheless.

 

[polymath]

I've taken part in guided zazen meditation in a zen buddhist group, and most of the people in there didn't seem to have a very pro-drug-use attitude (but some did).

 

[iksaxophone]

Silverbirch, thanks for your recommendation I will look up Zig Zag Zen.
It's not hard to classify psychedelics as shortcuts to those life-changing moments. All of the perspective altering realizations that typify the psychedelic experience can be had without drugs (I have had three mushroom experiences in my 21st year, following 20 years of being an introspective and philosophical but very straight-edged individual so I have been on both sides of the equation). If you can open your mind without them, is it even advisable to use these chemicals? Do psychonauts expose themselves to more than a mind can handle?

 

[silverbirch]

If you can open your mind without them, is it even advisable to use these chemicals? Do psychonauts expose themselves to more than a mind can handle?

In my opinion, these chemicals are very important for modern Western society as a means of waking people up. I take myself as an example of someone who was moving forward with my ego behind the wheel. LSD gave me the kick I needed to realise the existence of the expanded consciousness states. One session provided me with invaluable insight and a meeting with the void, the white light described in Eastern mysticism. Undoubtedly the most profound experience of my life.

I know that it possible to attain these states naturally but it requires many years of discipline and commitment, which might not be everyone's kettle of fish. Personally the two work together symbiotically which allows me to reach greater depths of spirituality than I would be able to on Yoga alone.

I do not think that psychonauts expose themselves to more than they can handle; I think the potential of the human mind is far beyond what we currently use. Having said that, it is true that a day or two is usually required to rest the mind after an intense expansion of consciousness.

Ultimately, I think it is only social stigma which is keeping the culture from adopting psychedelics as medicine and for spiritual birth rituals. The stigma prevents proper education, making bad trips more frequent which further spreads misinformation.

 

[JackARoe]

In my opinion, these chemicals are very important for modern Western society as a means of waking people up. I take myself as an example of someone who was moving forward with my ego behind the wheel. LSD gave me the kick I needed to realise the existence of the expanded consciousness states. One session provided me with invaluable insight and a meeting with the void, the white light described in Eastern mysticism. Undoubtedly the most profound experience of my life.

I know that it possible to attain these states naturally but it requires many years of discipline and commitment, which might not be everyone's kettle of fish. Personally the two work together symbiotically which allows me to reach greater depths of spirituality than I would be able to on Yoga alone.

I do not think that psychonauts expose themselves to more than they can handle; I think the potential of the human mind is far beyond what we currently use. Having said that, it is true that a day or two is usually required to rest the mind after an intense expansion of consciousness.

Ultimately, I think it is only social stigma which is keeping the culture from adopting psychedelics as medicine and for spiritual birth rituals. The stigma prevents proper education, making bad trips more frequent which further spreads misinformation.

Well worth requoting. Well said Silverbirch.

Pretty much the way I've felt. Also after meditating for years and years I still think that Nature provided these sacraments and they surpass meditation, at least at the lowly level I am at. (yeah yeah, I've been told I just haven't meditated enough, I am no Saint! But I have meditated regularly at times for long periods) On a spiritual level we progress to be kind to each other soul to soul. But even at just the biological natural world level, Nature wants us to be kind to each other. It doesn't want us blowing each other up or we would not go on. I have to believe that the intelligence behind Nature knows that since we are a way for the cosmos to know itself (thanks Carl ) and are a part of Nature. So to me, it is my opinion that Nature or Cosmos is far beyond a cold machine. Psychedelics showed me that. Meditating calms me down.

 

[Crashing]

I believe that psychedelics and dissociatives are technologically advanced spiritual tools that we don't even fully understand and appreciate yet. No amount of humming and hawing in the mountains with no food or water could ever teach me a fraction of what i've learned with psychedelics. Certain combinations especially seem to just offer a sixth sense and link the mind directly to a direct conscious source. Spirituality combined with these entheogenic substances is the secret to life in my opinion.