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Lysergamides Psychedelics what part of the heart do they damage

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Preytor

Bluelighter
Joined
Jul 2, 2018
Messages
63
So had few things pop up on an ECG, and went to cardiologist to talk it out. What I had was sinus rhythm with incomplete right bundle branch block and left anterior hemi block(whatever the fuck that means.)

Cardiologist said that it’s probably just how I was born and nothing to worry about, and did an echocardiogram to make sure I was good as it was to get confirmation I’m healthy for adhd medication.

Now I ain’t really worried about it, but I did obviously lie to him about not using any drugs other than weed, and as far as what could have done the dirty on me, I definitely have overused psychedelics in my life.

I don’t understand the structure of the heart at all, can’t tell reading about it if it’s the type of damage that could have resulted from mainly lsd, dmt, cacti, or infrequent mdma but with an accidental stupid high dose in there.

Yeh sorry for specific question, anyone that’s aware of what parts of the heart these drugs damage, if it could be because of them or if it’s just how my heart always was. Wanna keep it in mind.
 
Excessive use of psychedelics and empathogen may affect heart valves negatively. (ht2-b receptor). Do take omega 3, reservatol and more important than anything else - exercise regularly! Hawthorne is good for your cardiovascular too. Everything in moderation (including moderation). 😉
 
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@Preytor the valvular damage can show up on ECG, but if the doc sees bundle block issues it's a different thing, those is not at all related to psychedelics.

I also have right bundle block issues, which the cardiologist thinks is probably due to too much iron supplements which muscle tissue will store.
bundle blocks are when the nerve signal does not reach the entire muscle...(i.e. the muscle fibre bundle is blocked, or the nerve bundle penetration is blocked) like there are short circuits, and iron deposits in the heart will short the nerves a bit, enough for bundle block to seem to show up on ECG.

I suppose they read it from ECG with a weaker contraction on that side of the heart, or lower peaks for that part of the heart beat sequence.

explanation for my case:
I had been taking extra iron because of my family doc thinking it would offset my low hemoglobin situation from genetic hemochromatosis. <- this came out from a special blood test that I never asked for, anyway - it is true- Low iron makes me a bit tired, while lsd makes me feel quite awake, and since my valves are fine I have no problem: every 3 days or so I have some lsd, hahaha.
 
Stimulation of 5-HT2B is known to be involved in pathological processes that cause scarring and fibrosis of many different types of tissues including heart tissue. The details of this process are not well understood including the conditions that must exist for it to occur. One possibility is that it mostly affects tissue that is already chronically damaged and inflamed where there may be a kind of vicious cycle.

A good guess is that heart valves are particularly affected because they are delicate and are more exposed to the drug, but it's reasonable to assume 5-HT2B agonists could cause problems to in other parts of the heart too. Unfortunately this is a subject that's badly in need of more research because IMO a lot of potentially beneficial medicines including psychedelics have some 5-HT2B agonist activity. This activity may not always be harmful, and in the right circumstances could have restorative effects as well.

No doubt, drugs with 5-HT2B action will be a lot more problematic if taken in high doses daily, but until more studies are done, it's not clear how much the risk drops if such drugs are only used occasionally. Also, not all drugs with 5-HT2B activity will necessarily cause the problem as it may depend on how the receptor is activated.

One more note is that heart damage can be caused by a number of other things too. For example COVID infection can cause significant damage to the heart as well. It may depend a lot on the person, but I suspect that one or more COVID infections is likely to be at least as damaging to the heart as regular use of psychedelics. I would certainly advise anyone who is trying to avoid heart damage to continue taking strict precautions against COVID, but I know that is not a popular position.
 
I have had regular sustained exposure to 5-ht2b agonists for over 50 years, and in my opinion it is not related to any of my physical issues.
Maybe the significance of the valvular problem is over emphasized?
Aging presents it's own issues, (manageable with exercise and diet), but even by that standard I am not afflicted much. Just got back from climbing 800 feet (altitude) in a 4 mile walk, lovely day to walk through the village.
 
Esperighanto said:
I thought it was only implicated in daily use of high potency 5HT2b activity, right? 4-MAR or phentermine, if I recall correctly, had that issue.
Click to expand...
I think so. Like, one has to cross threshold before body starts to develop that fibrous tissue in heart, it is not normal function.

I think benzofuranes are also something to be taken mindfully for this reason.
 
Preytor said:
right bundle branch block and left anterior hemi block(whatever the fuck that means.)
Click to expand...
These are part of the "Bundle of His" or the nerve bundles that are like the spark plug wires in a car engine. It means that these ares slowing down the signals to the nodes in the heart that fire off the muscles that make the heart pump. These have nothing to do with the valve damage that other posters are talking about. It is unlikely that LSD caused this problem.
 
pupnik said:
I have had regular sustained exposure to 5-ht2b agonists for over 50 years, and in my opinion it is not related to any of my physical issues.
Maybe the significance of the valvular problem is over emphasized?
Aging presents it's own issues, (manageable with exercise and diet), but even by that standard I am not afflicted much. Just got back from climbing 800 feet (altitude) in a 4 mile walk, lovely day to walk through the village.
Click to expand...

I don't think it's over-emphasized. My guess is that only arises for certain people and/or in certain circumstances. IMO this needs a lot more research to better understand. I'd personally like to know very much because I anticipate wanting to or even needing to take psychedelics frequently to stop my own health from deteriorating.

Also, I know you micro-dose LSD, and LSD may not be nearly as problematic as things like 2C-B or MDMA. Even mushrooms may be more problematic, but I honestly don't know. Hopefully soon we'll at least see some studies on mushroom micro-dosers.
 
pupnik said:
@Preytor the valvular damage can show up on ECG, but if the doc sees bundle block issues it's a different thing, those is not at all related to psychedelics.

I also have right bundle block issues, which the cardiologist thinks is probably due to too much iron supplements which muscle tissue will store.
bundle blocks are when the nerve signal does not reach the entire muscle...(i.e. the muscle fibre bundle is blocked, or the nerve bundle penetration is blocked) like there are short circuits, and iron deposits in the heart will short the nerves a bit, enough for bundle block to seem to show up on ECG.

I suppose they read it from ECG with a weaker contraction on that side of the heart, or lower peaks for that part of the heart beat sequence.

explanation for my case:
I had been taking extra iron because of my family doc thinking it would offset my low hemoglobin situation from genetic hemochromatosis. <- this came out from a special blood test that I never asked for, anyway - it is true- Low iron makes me a bit tired, while lsd makes me feel quite awake, and since my valves are fine I have no problem: every 3 days or so I have some lsd, hahaha.
Click to expand...
Hey thanks for explaining this, I was gonna keep using anyways but feels good to know at least this is unlikely to be from psychedelics.
 
iom said:
Stimulation of 5-HT2B is known to be involved in pathological processes that cause scarring and fibrosis of many different types of tissues including heart tissue. The details of this process are not well understood including the conditions that must exist for it to occur. One possibility is that it mostly affects tissue that is already chronically damaged and inflamed where there may be a kind of vicious cycle.

A good guess is that heart valves are particularly affected because they are delicate and are more exposed to the drug, but it's reasonable to assume 5-HT2B agonists could cause problems to in other parts of the heart too. Unfortunately this is a subject that's badly in need of more research because IMO a lot of potentially beneficial medicines including psychedelics have some 5-HT2B agonist activity. This activity may not always be harmful, and in the right circumstances could have restorative effects as well.

No doubt, drugs with 5-HT2B action will be a lot more problematic if taken in high doses daily, but until more studies are done, it's not clear how much the risk drops if such drugs are only used occasionally. Also, not all drugs with 5-HT2B activity will necessarily cause the problem as it may depend on how the receptor is activated.

One more note is that heart damage can be caused by a number of other things too. For example COVID infection can cause significant damage to the heart as well. It may depend a lot on the person, but I suspect that one or more COVID infections is likely to be at least as damaging to the heart as regular use of psychedelics. I would certainly advise anyone who is trying to avoid heart damage to continue taking strict precautions against COVID, but I know that is not a popular position.
Click to expand...
Yeah I’ve had covid at least twice(I suspect a further two times) so that could have something to do with it. And from what I’m gathering from this thread, while the damage from psychedelics isn’t fully understood, it isn’t to the point where it should show up on an ECG when I’m under thirty, and not as bundle blocks, so that’s smth else.
 
I’ve been using psychedelics for 30 years and recently had an ecg and X-rays. Heart’s in good shape, but since I’m older now, I eat much healthier and exercise daily. I think as long as you don’t have a preexisting condition and watch your health, you should be okay. But that’s all conjecture. We’re the true lab rats, and one that I’m willing to be, lol.
 
How old is this claim that psychedelics damage the heart and who did it? There's tons of shit research funded by the DEA to promote anti-drug claims - most of them are shit or based on useless animal studies using enormous doses that a human being would never use.
 
So had few things pop up on an ECG, and went to cardiologist to talk it out. What I had was sinus rhythm with incomplete right bundle branch block and left anterior hemi block(whatever the fuck that means.)
Click to expand...

The problem with ECGs is that you have to be a doctor to have any idea what the results mean. Years back I had a nurse trying to interpret my ECG and I brought her concerns back to my doctor. He laughed and said everything is normal and 'within range', she's not qualified to interpret the results. Even though the language sounded negative in the report there wasn't anything wrong and everything was actually doing great.

I have an irregular heart beat that is the root of a lot of my 'concerns'. It confuses a lot of the machines they use to measure blood pressure, ECG, and other measurements of circulation and heart health. I've had it since I was born, nothing dangerous or abnormal about it. I find it useful because it give me an opportunity to ask questions and learn a little bit more about what's going on. As I get older with health issues building up I need to take it easier on my body. Especially because I love psychedelics and would rather die of a heart attack while tripping my balls off then sitting in an old folk's home drooling into my unchanged bed pan.

I notice a lot of stuff in the MDMA group are hard on the urinary tract. I've noticed that's causing me more pain and discomfort then it ever did in the past. Vassoconstriction is something to watch out for. Might have to save those for a special day but that's what I should be doing anyway. Alot more information out there about the health effects of the old classics and the new categories of RCs opening up. I'm realizing I'm going to be using certain groups of chemicals I like less and less. I've found the same thing others have about the 2-ht2b over stimulation causing some build up of fiber at the heart valves. I agree that some of the novel newer types like benzofurans should be avoided. Didn't like how it made my kidney feel, took a couple weeks to get back to normal.

Most of this shit doesn't mean a thing to a young healthy person getting plenty of exercise and activity. Getting older means eating better, more raw food, more green leafy plants, better sources of protein and fiber and oil. Lots of water all day every day. I don't like it, my diet has been poor for a long time now. If I'm going to make it to 65,70 I need to make changes now so I can keep enjoying life until I'm ready to call it a day.
 
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