Prozac Nation Under Fire

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Renewed concerns about the safety of the antidepressants have prompted the Food and Drug Administration to convene hearings today to determine whether antidepressants like Paxil and Zoloft are unsafe for use in children under 18.

Last summer, the British drug authorities announced findings of an associated risk of increased suicidal behavior. On trial is a class of drugs called specific serotonin reuptake inhibitors (SSRIs), which include Prozac, Paxil and Zoloft. Currently only Prozac is approved by the FDA for use in children.

For parents whose children have had terrible experiences while taking antidepressants, the FDA hearing is long overdue.

Teenager Corey Baadgaard was taking Effexor when he walked into his honors English class with a rifle and held his classmates hostage. One of the antidepressant's actions is to increase serotonin like Prozac and Paxil. "I've never been in a fight before, never done anything like that, never wanted to hurt somebody," Corey told World News Tonight correspondent Lisa Stark.

But doctors who have seen the drugs work "miracles" in children worry one of their best weapons for treating depression in kids might be taken away without any hard science to support a ban.

"The British decision [to ban all SSRIs but Prozac for use in children] was not based on science," says adolescent psychiatrist Chris Okiishi of the University of Iowa Hospitals and Clinics. "These are the only effective medications we have for children."

Benefits Outweigh Risks?


Among the evidence the FDA will consider is a report from the American College of Neuropsychopharmacology, or ACNP, which convened a task force in September 2003 to study the data linking antidepressants to suicide in teenagers.

The ACNP examined a total of 15 clinical trials of SSRI — totaling more than 2,000 kids and teens — including those reviewed in Great Britain last year. It concluded there is no reliable evidence linking antidepressants to increased suicide in teenagers.

Instead, ACNP said there is good reason to believe antidepressants help prevent adolescent suicide. The review of over 2,000 children on antidepressants found not one suicide. The report also notes the British study found only slight increases in suicidal thinking in kids who were taking antidepressants.

The ACNP considered other evidence as well.They reviewed a recent study on 49 teenagers who had committed suicide, 24 percent of whom had been prescribed antidepressants.However, none of the kids tested positive for the SSRIs at the time of their death.This suggests the teenagers may have been less suicidal on the medication than off of it.

Finally, the report examined suicide rates in countries where the antidepressants are prescribed.They found teen suicide has dropped about 33 percent among populations using SSRI antidepressants over the past 14 years.The reduction followed several decades of increases in youth suicide.

Suicide a Risk with Depression


Doctors admit there is always a risk of suicide when treating a severely depressed patient.As patients start to feel better, energy and motivation sometimes return before the suicidal thinking has faded.

"You get patients who are too depressed to commit suicide," says Dr. David Fassler, a trustee of the American Psychiatric Association who is testifying about the antidepressant safety at the FDA hearing."Patients start treatment and then they feel just better enough to go through with it."

Others question whether the antidepressants might have more of a "rebound effect" in children.The kids feel better when the drugs are in their system, but may feel even worse as the drugs wear off.

We know kids metabolize drugs faster," Okiishi explains."One possibility is that we may not be giving them enough."

Doctors agree it is important to watch a person starting antidepressants very carefully.Jay Reeve, senior psychologist at Bradley Hospital in Providence, R.I., explains, "We often admit [severely depressed kids] to the hospital.We watch them very closely for at least three to four days.After that, we make sure we have a lot of parental education about possible side effects."

But with increased suicidal thinking as a possible side effect, some feel you can't be too careful. Dr. Thomas J. Moore of George Washington University told World News Tonight, "I believe there is not enough evidence that these drugs are safe."

The ACNP report notes safety evidence in adults is much better."More than 20,000 adults have been studied in clinical trials of SSRIs and other antidepressants … Analysis of the database found no relationship between SSRIs and suicidal attempts or actual suicides in adults."

Experts hope the FDA hearing will provide more answers to the question of effectiveness and safety of antidepressants in children."We need large scale multi-site studies," Fassler says."A hearing to evaluate what we know and what we don't know is a good thing."

Verdict Not Likely to Come Soon

For the millions of people taking SSRIs for depression, a definitive answer is not immediately in sight.Dr. Russell Katz of the FDA explains: "We don't believe we have the information at the moment to be able to make that decision, and we think it is very, very important to get this correct, because a mistake in either direction can have very significant health consequences."

Meanwhile, some question whether the FDA panel may be overly biased in favor of the drug companies.

The Center for Science in the Public Interest, for instance, has urged the FDA to remove three of 11 scientists on one of its advisory boards evaluating the link between antidepressants and suicide in youths because they have been paid consultants for the companies that make the drugs under investigation.

The FDA says they are just beginning the review process and may not have an answer until next summer.In the meantime, they have urged doctors to be especially careful when prescribing antidepressants to children.

All doctors emphasize parents should not stop their children's antidepressant medications without first talking to a physician.

"Drugs are not the whole answer," acknowledges Fassler."But there is a high risk of not treating kids."

Okiishi explains, "I have 15-20 patients with a parent overseas in the Gulf.The parents heard the British report on the BBC [about SSRIs and suicide] and wrote home to have their kids taken off the medications without consulting me. I ended up with some pretty sick kids."

Okiishi says his young patients are back on their medications and doing fine

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Feb 02/2004
Prozac Nation Under Fire
FDA Convenes Hearing on Safety of Popular Antidepressants for Kids

From ABC News
 
Anyone who knows me knows that I am very against the way drugs are just handed out in this Prozac nation of ours. I think it's bullshit.
I was on zoloft for a looong time..from jr. high until I was 18. That drug caused me more agony than any of the illegal drugs I have ever done in my entire life (INCLUDING crack). It is a wretched, awful, TOXIC substance that did nothing by ravage my body and trick my mind. Let me tell you, I wasn't depressed while on that drug, but that article is right about SSRIs making you crazy (the kid who held the class hostage and stuff like that)...after being on the SSRI for a couple years my depression was gone but I developed SEVERE rage and mood problems...I felt cracked out all the time and had symptoms similar to ADD...I failed school because of it. I had intense anger problems and would just snap and lose control, hurting myself and sometimes others. I missed a lot of school because I really did have thoughts of killing people there. And what did they do about it? GUESS WHAT? They perscribed ANOTHER fucking DRUG.
During that entire time of "treatment" for my depression, those doctors did absolutely nothing but drug me. When I came to the end of my road with the drugs (when my body was so sick and couldn't tolerate them anymore), I realized I was no better off than I was at first. I didn't find salvation from my depression until I grew up and took control of my own soul. I had to look deep inside and work things out with myself. Drugs are not a solution. You cannot run away from your problems.
I hope one day society wakes the fuck up and realizes that this crap has to stop.
 
People always think that there is a quick fix for things... Ayy, if only it was the way. Drugs can help guide you towards a solution. But only if handled in the correct environment, support and a real sense of commitment to curing whichever (dis)-ease you may have.

Chucking people on to drugs and letting them go on their merry way is a quick fix that leads to disaster...

A friends friend killed himself two weeks after he started taking Prozac. He was given no therapy, no guidance.
 

True that. I was on Prozac for about 5 months, when afterwhich, I became almost zombie-like. I had no highs, I had no lows, I was a mindless automaton. Although, maybe this is the kind of population the Government is wanting nowadays; people to mindlessly go where the government wants them to.

Prozac did nothing for me, except show me that drugs don't fix the problems, people fix the problems.
 
celexa gets me out of bed in the morning.

zoloft made me too tired to fart (let alone get out of bed)

Some meds are great. Some meds aren't. I agree it takes a certain level of motivation to make yourself recover. I have it. I'm better. *shrugs*
 
I hope doctors DO put some more thought into their distribution of these drugs. The potential for side effects and destructive mental consequences is waaaaay overlooked.

SSRI's for depression is comparable to stimulants for ADD. You're good on the drug (if you're lucky), and then you're fucked off of it. Meanwhile the side effects leave you with erectile dysfunction and a sweating problem.

Still, I'm happy for those that find these drugs helpful and tolerable.
 
fuck SSRIs. it's a wonder the whole nation isn't taking them... you're prescribed a harmless drug by a trusted doctor that can magically cure the blues, but the withdrawal is unbearable & prolonged.

as for suicidal thinking, i believe the problem is that SSRIs cause apathy. everything i do seems boring & forced. the blunted affect they can cause means you can't cry or be truly happy in moderate doses... you have to be fucking manic or really sad or whatever just to feel real emotion. people may have varying reactions to it, but in general SSRIs cause sedation... not the happy kind, just "eh, i really don't feel like doing anything." so you just watch a lot of TV, get sad & lonely, THEN you wanna kill yourself. suicidal thinking is an indirect response to longterm SSRI treatment.

i don't think SSRIs should be taken off the market, but i don't believe they should be the primarily prescribed anti-D, and they should NOT be used for permanent depression treatment.

i'm paxilated, and i fucking hate it.
 
There is a lot of evidence that has not been publicized in the States about the fact that SSRIs are far less effective than they have been presented to be. The Lancet ran an article a couple years ago titled "Listening to Prozac and Hearing Placebo" which found that the effect size (difference between control and experimental groups) of treatment with prozac was below 10% as measured by a variety of depression assessment procedures. However, medical companies seize on the fact that these studies found the results to be highly significant (highly significant means there is a low level of probability of committing a Type I error, meaning that the results are less than 5% due to random chance, but it does not mean that the drug itself is highly effective).

On a more personal note, one of my good friends has been on the medical merry go round, and it can be hard dealing with him. He doesn't think in the same way most people do, obvious shit will completely pass him by unless you specifically point it out to him (I'm not talking intellectual shit, I'm talking like "turn off the stereo when you are done listening to it" "close the windows all the way during the winter").

It seems like he is constantly in a daze (he has gone from prozac to paxil to a low level dose of an atypical neuroleptic, and yet I can't see much improvement in his behavior or mood state from my own limited vantage point), he sleeps all the fucking time during day or night, and is often groggy when not asleep.

The funny thing is that his psychiatrist FREAKED OUT when he told him he'd been smoking weed, said he should go into rehab that he's addicted and all this... meanwhile he's got this poor kid popping these pills every damn morning that make him a total zombie. I find it ironic to say the least.

I have dealt with a lot of depression in my own life, but my family was always too poor to go through therapy whether drug aided or otherwise. Ultimately, I am glad I didn't take these things because I have really worked through a lot of difficult issues within my own mind and feel much stronger and more resilient because of it. I worry that people who rely on a chemical crutch (that includes legal and illegal drugs) deprive themselves of the ability to gain this strength which helps to fuel personal growth.

Also, the use of SSRIs "off the label" to treat conditions they were not tested for (such as depression in children, generalized anxiety, eating disorders, etc.) is a dangerous practice as we have absolutely no data to support whether it is safe to use these drugs in those specific instances.
 
ff3mwg said:
fuck SSRIs. it's a wonder the whole nation isn't taking them... you're prescribed a harmless drug by a trusted doctor that can magically cure the blues, but the withdrawal is unbearable & prolonged.

.

Yeah..thats another thing. COming off Zoloft was the most frightening experiance of my life. I don't mean I got depressed. I went through a physcial withdrawl...vomiting and diarrea for at least a week straight...I couldn't keep hardley any food down and got dehydrated...couldn't get out of bed...and the stomach cramps...Oh my fucking God...I've never known agony like that before and I hope I never will again. The doctors failed to warn me about the withdrawl, probably because they figured I'd never go off the drug. It's bullshit.

:X
 
ff3mwg said:
you have to be fucking manic or really sad or whatever just to feel real emotion. people may have varying reactions to it, but in general SSRIs cause sedation... not the happy kind, just "eh, i really don't feel like doing anything." so you just watch a lot of TV, get sad & lonely, THEN you wanna kill yourself. suicidal thinking is an indirect response to longterm SSRI treatment.

All my mate's think I'm in mania. I'm on 20mg of Citalopram once a day. It's made me super confident but I get that akathasia or something, where you get violent and suicidal thoughts! It stops my social anxiety so I put up with the akathasia! :\
 
Okiishi explains, "I have 15-20 patients with a parent overseas in the Gulf.The parents heard the British report on the BBC [about SSRIs and suicide] and wrote home to have their kids taken off the medications without consulting me. I ended up with some pretty sick kids."

Well DUH! Ever heard of withdrawal from stopping such powerful drugs cold turkey ? No worries, the kids are back on drugs and everybody is happy.

:p
 
I was on prozac for a long time. I had no withdrawls or anything when i went off. Prozac changed my life, and for the better. This is not to say that will happen for everyone. People react differently to the same chemicals and there is no way to tell who will react and how. Over time the side effects built up and began to out wiegh the beenfits for me. and if i need to i'll take it again. If i had known that prozac would have done this sooner, I would have taken it in high school.

Problem is this: shrinks/talk therapy cost money. and in a country like the US that has a crap health system people will invariably choose a low cost alternative such as prozac instead of paying a shrink hundreds of dollars an hour, especially when financially challenged. It's cheaper, it's faster and it gets results.

And doctors are only trying to improve their patients quality of life. These doctors work hard and want to help people, but these people want it now, they want the problems to end. When you have promotions from drug companies and upset and ill patients you might opt for the chemical route vs the talk therapy.

As for kids and depression. Society, peers and parents need to accept responsibilty for the pressures they place on young adults and address those issues before anything will change in regards to teenage depression, and mental illness. these kids have so many hormones raging thru their veins it's anyone guess what happens when you give them antidepressants, so it is most likely worth lookiing at. But it's not the whole picture.
 
I don't feel that anti-depressants are necessarily unneeded, but I think there is just not enough knowledge on who to give them to. The doctors aren't educated nearly as much as they should be for such a serious illness. The human mind and body is precious and I don't think we understand that as much as we should as a society. What is ridiculous is that most doctors seem to be at beck of drug company peddlers and not sensitive enough to their patients needs. I really hope that someday we figure out a way to treat individually instead of in a homogenistic way.

"One possibility is that we may not be giving them enough." This downright scares me.


I was on anti-depressants and anti-anxiety meds. from 11 to 14. The only one I couldn't stand was ritalin. That shit scared the fuck out of me, for real.
Anti-depressants seem to fill that gap in our society that doesn't want to look at the whole picture, but my feeling is that they're here to stay so we might as well try to improve on how we treat people. :\

Peace.
 
SSRI's, anti-depressents and erroneously prescribed Benzo's are one of the reasons that the Australian health system is fucked up. I don't know how the pharmaceutical benefit scheme works in your country. But every needless/fake script drives up the prices of general Pharmacuticals and increases the Tax Payer Burden. When people are legitimately sick, it can mean their meds may be unaffordable. Not to mention the mental health effects of daily pill-popping.

I don't believe in pharm abuse :( In a health and economic sense.
 
Are you saying in Australia you get scripts filled for free ? The prices of meds have nothing to do with the number of scripts written.

U.S has the highest consumption rate of prescription meds in the world and their prices are exteremely high.
 
Crazee, in Australia we dont get scripts for free, but we do get them for a substantially lower ammount. For every dollar we pay, the government might pay 3 or 4, or even more if you're poor and/or old.

Yeah the PBS is fucked i guess but meh. That old guy on TV is annoying and very patronising.

Re the SSRI debate - I know personally how dangerous & destructive they can be, however they are not without use. Nonetheless I would certainly agree that they are over-prescribed (i.e handed out like lollies) and, as seems the case in the US too, Im not so sure doctors are adequetly informing patients of the risks involved.

My psych never told me I would feel fucked for weeks after stopping the med.
 
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