problem but not - opiates? need?

[j311yf1sh]

hi, no real clue where this goes. i've read SO MUCH on here and decided to join. I have a problem and a wealth of experience to share.
looking for some lite advice.

so i have made it this far, professional female with a great career. i have battled depression anxiety and now stricken with odd all over pain. i take opiates (norco) and some tramadol. i am down to 1/4 a pill of 50mg tram a day if needed. i still feel witdrawals from when i took up to 200mg a day about 2 months ago. man, was i a happy camper. they did nothing for the pain but lifted all anxiety, depression, etc. i was hooked on it like it was the limitless pill. i am now promoted, my own corner office and i work for 2 companies........i love it. scared though.... i tappered the dose down as soon as i found out how strong of a grip it can have on you. i like to have control of myself.

norcos do the same for me (clear thought, hyper, etc) *sigh* but do kill the pain. i don't want to be stuck in this trap! maybe an opiate here and there if needed when i feel like i can't use my hands or legs. i hate drinking alcohol (did enough in my 20s) so sometimes a pill is like my bottle of wine???? if that makes sense?

i've never gotten 'dopey', just focused, clear and energetic from these 2 medicines. as i have cut down to cutting the damn tramadols, i have upped my caffeine intake to stay energetic and not go back for the other 1/4. I still feel empty headed....please tell me you know what that means!

am I all wrong? I mean, i need the norco for pain problems, breakthrough, but should I be looking at adderral or something? oh and i have done the whole diet, clean eating, exercise route. no, doesn't work for me. 45lb loss later.....same ol.

I'm not ready to rest and no, i will not go the coke route lol. oh and weed. it may be medical here soon - however - since those days in 98-99 it does nothing but give me an incredible panic attack

my love and respect to all. for me, it all started in 98 w erowid. finally, i'm speaking!

 

[pasha]

Welcome to bluelight. It makes perfect sense and there's really no right or wrong here.

Tramadol is an atypical opioid meaning it doesn't really work like regular opioids do. It has the unique ability of boosting serotonin and adrenaline drastically, amongst other neuro chemicals. This makes it stimulating and extremely gifted at relieving the symptoms of depression, lethargy, and anxiety. I guess you can think of it like an opioid crossed with a very low dose of MDMA.

All opioids, and this applies to both of the ones you're taking also flood the brain with dopamine which is responsible for controlling pain and pleasure to a very great degree. The outcome of the boost of dopamine is potent suppression of pain and a mass increase in pleasure. This means that it's a normal response to opioids to feel strong, happy, energized, and relaxed. An increase in dopamine is also associated with an increase in focus, attention, and creativity.

It's not as easy as switching to amphetamine as a long term solution. Amphetamines and opioids work differently pharmacologically so there's no telling you would feel as comfortable on them as you do on opioids.

Have you explored the idea of extended release tramadol as a once/twice a day solution to daily anxiety and depression relief?

I'm going to move your thread.

Homeless -> Other Drugs

 

[cuivre]

Most of your post makes perfect sense but I'm just a little confused what you're ultimately asking. Is your pain decently controlled but your mood is lacking? Or are you having problems with pain relief, too? Do you have an actual diagnosis as to what's causing the pain?

Almost everyone with chronic or otherwise long-term pain requiring narcotics understands what it's like feeling like you're a little bit caught in a trap. I'm not going to lie and pretend there's no issues taking opioids, but it's all about risk versus reward. If there are times when you truly can't use your arms and legs but opioids help you be able to do so... what are you going to do? It's hard to stop taking them in such a situation, but only you know how much they're doing. As with almost any as-needed medication, the less you can take the better. But try not to beat yourself up when you really need to take it.

I do know people who have been on tramadol for comorbid intractable depression and chronic pain, so I totally agree that extended-release tramadol might be something worth looking into. Maybe Ultram/tramadol ER coupled with low doses of hydrocodone for breakthrough would help both with the pain and mood issues?

I'm not totally certain what you are hoping the Adderall/d-amphetamine would do for you in this situation? Help you focus through some of the fogginess??

I've read your post a couple of times and I don't think I missed it, so could you clarify if these medications are coming from a doctor or being purchased on the street? Assuming they are from a doctor, have you spoken to him/her about these problems? If so, what was their take?

 

[Rybee]

Hey & Welcome to Bluelight!

I always respect people who are trying to help themselves and you'll find a lot of people on BL will have a lot of time for you, since most of us have been in your shoes before and know how important a little help and knowledge is.

As baooozs says, and I'm sure you're probably aware of, Tramadol is indeed an atypical opioid (as is Tapentadol, but a little more potent) so will differ from the effects of Norco/Hydrocodone. Just to understand your position a little better, are you taking any other medication for the depression/anxiety such as SSRIs/MAOIs/TCAs? And also when you say pain, are you referring to a chronic/acute physical condition causing you pain, or are you metaphorically referring to psychological pain? And also, are these being prescribed by a doctor or are you obtaining them illicitly, of course not judging if it's the latter. Would just help paint a better picture of your situation.

I've never taken Hydrocodone (not licensed here in the UK) but I have taken many opiates that are similar to it, as well as Tramadol. Like yourself I also suffer from a few mental health setbacks, Major Depressive Disorder and Generalised Anxiety Disorder, as well as chronic neuropathic pain caused by sciatica. I've been round the houses with regards to all kinds of medication for my mental health, but out of everything I've tried, Tramadol & Tapentadol are by far the best medications for my mood. I originally started taking them for my chronic pain until I realised how uplifting I found them to be.

Traditional opiates such as Morphine make me feel warm and fuzzy and are much better at helping to keep my pain under wraps, but I was always sucked back to Tramadol, even at a lower dose, because of the way it used to make me feel. I know a lot of users on BL feel the same way and much prefer the stimulation from Tramadol as opposed to the more traditional medications. So on that note, you're really not alone, and the fact you've cut down to just 12.5mg of Tramadol is amazing. It's very easy to get out of control and I remember pushing the 600mg mark in one dose until someone slapped some sense into me re: seizures.

I can't really advise on Adderral as I've never used it before, however, I do use Ethylphenidate now and then to perk me up and keep me focused. But you're really not alone in your situation, so don't feel guilty or upset about the position that you're in. It's very common and you'll get some great help on BL.

 

[j311yf1sh]

Thank you all!!

1. These are mostly Dr. RX. I will take some Street for fun as I'm not a drinker or smoker. *sigh* Some Docs have said it could be arthralgia - arthistis w/o swelling. makes sense.
2. You guys hit the nail on the head. Tram is like part MDMA. I know from experience - back in the party days. sheesh.
3. I am not on any antiDepressants, but I do have klonopin for panic/anxiety disorder. (Years ago was on celexa - weened myself off, what a nightmare) Don't wanna go through that again, hence the shaving down on Tram. I like the buzz too much.
4. My ultimate goal was to get myself out of the grips of these meds and seeing them as a crutch, taking them when not needed.

I feel last week was rough as I was wanting to cut back super hard - and didn't want to feel alone, in that I have these medications that I both sometimes need, as well as use for 'fun' while others drink beers or something.
Since posting, my past Norco was Sunday, 1/2 -10am- of my 7.5. then 25mg Tram about 1pm due to some heavy chores I had to take on for the rest of the day and I didn't want to slow down or have any pain. it all worked.

Yesterday I was 100& clean. So far today, 100% clean. I just want to take things when I want or really really need. I'm very close. Temptation is a purse away but I'm getting stronger. Last night was a hard test. I had heavy leg and knee pain - like a stabbing hot iron stabbed into my knee, under my knee cap, burning and hurting like crazy. I took a klonopin and got as comfortable as I could and slept it off. May be neurological pain... (Neurotin did not work, been there done that).


I have addiction all through my family, so I have been cognizant that I am susceptible to it as well, so I like to take things like this minimalistically. if that is a word!

I felt a little sluggish today - where I would go and take a piece of tram, but I cracked a mt. dew instead lol. I hate soda, but the caffeine bump works just fine.

I think I will stay where I am!!! I made a lot of progress in one week.

Thanks all for your kind words... and listening.

 

[DaleEarnhardt]

from experience i can tell you there is no easy way off the tramadol train. even at 50mg, dropping to 0 will be a ride. i was taking 400-600mg a day for about a year and a half. after the golden days my doc cut me off, he honestly didnt even believe they were addictive. i did a quick taper down to 50mg where i found myself stuck, i ended up getting more on the internet and staying at 50mg for like 30 days or so to stabilize myself, then one day i noticed two pills left. i took one and saved one in the bottle. after that i went cold turkey, it wasnt all that bad, but rebound anxiety and depression came stomping back into my life, and for three months it was like torture, but i always had that one pill left incase things got to much to handle. that one pill is what kept me going, proving to myself that i could do it if I really wanted to. tramadol is a nasty demon and i wont lie to you, i lost part of myself to that drug, ever since then i have had worse anxiety than ever before and that mixed with depression makes me kind of delusional sometimes. im never as happy as i was before, I just cant find the energy to be as energetic, tramadol was a wonder drug until it was a nightmare.

i suggest you get off before you justify using to yourself anymore. it wont last with work, the dosage will have to climb higher and higher. Just take a week off work get a little xanax and some headphones, or a good book. I had what are called "brain zaps" for a few days which suck, but the worst of it all is over in like a week, then it just lingers around.

kicking is easy, its staying clean thats hard.

 

[pasha]

I don't advocate drug use but I also refuse to hop on the bandwagon of swaying people into leaving drugs.

Personally speaking, I love the way I feel on tramadol. Unbelievable amounts of energy, and not only mental, but physical too. I could labor a lot on it, stand on my legs and walk for long periods of time. study for long hours, have intimate conversations, and still feel energetic.

It's sometimes so stimulating that I have to take a sedative to get some sleep on it. Otherwise I lay in bed, awake but comfortable. When I withdraw from it I sleep for very long hours - withdrawal symptoms resembling those of a stimulants.

 

[Mstmil]

What is a brain zap like?

 

[pasha]

Feels like a brain zap...

 

[Lucy Bookit]

You sound like you're keeping doses low, which is super important. Due to it being arthralgia, then you want to make sure if you need it down the road you won't have a huge tolerance. Idk if not having swelling means you won't have damage to your joints, so take care of yourself and appreciate the mobility you have now. Anyway, if you ever wanna talk about arthritis, pm me. I've been in this game for 12 years so i know some things.

 

[Lucy Bookit]

For me it feels like a zap or shock of electricity with every movement i make going from the limb to my head. It is super painful and hard to describe.

 

[j311yf1sh]

hey everyone thanks for the replies. i lost my password and never came back. well i'm back, lol.

i'm off of this medicine now tapered down. nappng it off helps and you know what else; therapeutic use of herb.

my tolerance increased SO MUCH. you are right Lucy. Instead of popping medicine right away, I do some self-care. rest... hot bath... massage..

next is getting off of prozac... using another herb therapeutically is helping - big time. i want my intuition back!

i'll try not to be such a n00b here haha.

much love,
Jellay

 

[j311yf1sh]

oh and you don't know a brain zap till you have a brain zap. its really unique and not pleasant. i wondered what it felt like for a long time, then had one. ya just know.