Pramiracetam+Clonazepam - Effective?

[KingBlueTwista]

I ingested some Pramiracetam this morning as part of a daily nootropic regimen I got going. Then I realised I wanted to get high on some k-pins. BUT I don't wanna waste them, I doubt there are any health risks but I'm just wondering if they would cancel each other out at all. Pramiracetam mainly works through NMDA and AMPA modulation, and I know fuck all about the neuro-mechanisms of Benzos. Could someone help me out here? Much obliged

 

[mgrady3]

Benzo's primarily work through the GABA_A receptors. Clonazepam is not very specific to which GABA_A sub receptor it will bind too, which is why it works as a great all around benzo and is not specific to sedation, or muscle relaxation, rather it has some of all qualities.


Piracetam is a cyclic derivative of GABA. Pramiracetam is a derivative of piracetam.
I am not sure if this implies an interaction between the two chemicals or not. I am not too familiar with the mechanism of nootropics.

I was under the impression that piracetam doesn't act as a stimulant, which would counteract the benzo feeling, so in that sense it seems you are in the clear.

from reading the wiki page on piracetam, it seems many of the side effects listed sure things that could be counteracted with benzos. anxiety, insomnia, tremors, etc

So overall I'd say you should have no problem. But hopefully someone else will a bit more insight will reply
if not try having the thread moved, or reposting in Advanced Drug Discussion, there's bound to be someone there who more fully understands the pharmacology of the racetam class of chemicals.

 

[KingBlueTwista]

Fuck it I'll do it anyway, at least you made me feel better about it. The wiki page about Piracetam listed anxiety, insomnia and tremors as possible effects??? Never had those and I've been on it about 3 months. Wikipedia talks absolute bollocks about drugs anyway, I vaguely remember them listing dysphoria as a symptom of MDMA intake! Hahahahaa. What a bunch of wankers.
Anyway where'd you learn all this neuropharmacology? Unless you're a med student who took years to accumulate this kind of knowledge, would you mind sending me some links to the basics of neurochemistry and drugs? Its cool if not, thanks for the input at least.

 

[mgrady3]

I'm glad you asked.
I have learned my very limited amount of neurochemistry knowledge from bluelight. I suffer from insomnia, am Rx'd benzos among other drugs. After 2 years of them not really working, I decided to start doing my own research. So over the last 5 months or so of posting here on bluelight I have slowly come to understand some basic neurochemistry, specifically regarding benzo.

The Advanced Drug Discussion forum has a plethora of committed members who have a wealth of knowledge. So I asked a few questions on there and studied the answers as best as I could.

Wikipedia is a great source if you read carefully and don't just take things it says as absolute truth. If the article is written well it will provide links to medical papers which support claims made inline. While many of those papers are over your head (and mine too!) continuing to read them is one way to slowly learn about neurochemistry. I don't have any specific books to suggest you to read, all my research is done online. I am a graduate student in physics, so while on campus I have access to many journals and such to make medical research a lot simpler.

As I said, it has taken me many months to learn what I know (not all that much) but I feel a lot more confident now that I know how these drugs I am Rx'd are actually affecting me.

in short, keep being a member of this community, you're bound to learn something eventually.

 

[KingBlueTwista]

Ah thats cool, I guess I will do the same and accumulate knowledge over time. The only thing is, you have direction and specific mechanisms you want to investigate, and even then you've probably only scratched the surface. I on the other hand have absolutely NO idea what I'm looking for, I guess which drugs affect which receptors, how and why etc. (mainly psychedelics but also disassociates) but that requires a basic understanding of chemistry in the first place - which I do not have.

I've tried many times to grasp the basics through wikipedia but the problem is that its not a linear progression of learning, to understand one set of interactions you must understand another, it's cyclic, there's no foundation from which to start (if you see what I mean), so I end up with 50+ tabs on my screen about god knows what and then just give up due to brain overload.

Nevertheless I will take your advice; Research medical papers (any particular sources?) and look at the advanced discussions on this forum.

I gotta balance this with a degree at the same time too ya know so its tough
But thank you very much for the advice

 

[rollingstoned!]

I believe that the gaba agonist would cancel out most of the benefits of the 'racetam. Glutamate is excitotory while gaba is inhibitory. Idk though Check It Out!!

 

[mgrady3]

as for sources of papers:
I have read a few relating to GABA (sleep issues) from the Journal of Psychopharmacology, they were all informative.

If you are at a university (idk how things work in the UK) you should be able to go to the university library and have access to some online journals through that. Look on your library website for sections about doing research, searching journals, etc.

Here in the states most universities have access to things like Academic Search Premier, EbscoHost, Science Direct, SpringerLink, etc. These are essentially search engines for scholarly articles in hundreds to thousands of journals, such as the Journal of Psychopharmacology, or The British Journal of Clinical Pharmacology.

So fi you are looking for proper medical articles, your library at university can probably be a good place to help you find them. A lot fo the citations on wikipedia will lead you to an article that you may not have full access to (if you try to look at it from your house),but fi you are on a univeristy network, and your school has access to that particular journal, then you should be ok to read the full article.

hope that makes some sense.

 

[mgrady3]

Note also though, that AFAIK, the nootropic compounds may have a bit less than normal amount of reliable papers to read. There doesn't seem to be a much information out there concerning them.
But most drugs you will want to research will have a plethora of articles.

another good place to start for basic information is www.erowid.org

It has some information about racteam class drugs like piracetam.

http://www.erowid.org/pharms/benzodiazepine/benzodiazepine_bits.shtml

This cites an article claiming that high dosages of Piracetam can reduce the amnesic effects of Benzodiazipines (of which Clonazepam belongs to)