Practicality of Sec-Butanol

[Chucknutter]

Hi all, this is my first post on Bluelight, so please forgive me if I've put this in the wrong forum.

I've been looking for a substitute for ethanol for a while and 2 methyl 2 butanol seems to be a popular choice. Sadly, I'm not able to get my hands on it and have been looking for alternatives. Butanol seems to be a good alternative however 1-butanol and its metabolites apparently smell atrocious so I was wondering if sec-butanol or the related compound Isobutanol and their metabolites would have the same horrific smell? I'm fine with smelling like solvent but I'd rather not smell like death.
I've included isobutanol because Wikipedia says that isobutanol is one of the least toxic butanols but doesn't give a citation.
Obviously, if I've overlooked anything and these compounds are horrifically poisonous I'd like to know that too.


Thanks

 

[polymath]

Some alcohols can have unexpected toxic effects, for instance tert-butanol causes kidney failure after repeated exposure in animal toxicity tests (possibly because it can't be oxidized like primary and secondary alcohols and therefore produces some reactive metabolite instead). Not sure about this compound, though.

 

[Chucknutter]

Some alcohols can have unexpected toxic effects, for instance tert-butanol causes kidney failure after repeated exposure in animal toxicity tests (possibly because it can't be oxidized like primary and secondary alcohols and therefore produces some reactive metabolite instead). Not sure about this compound, though.

Really? I'm glad i asked. I stupidly assumed that tertiary alcohols were inherently safer because they wouldn't be converted into aldehydes. I need to keep doing research to keep myself from being killed by buying the wrong alcohol. Thanks for the reply!

 

[polymath]

Things like benzene are difficult to oxidize, too, but that's why they produce especially toxic metabolites.

If someone were to use 2-hexanol as a CNS depressant, it would probably be partly converted to the same 2,5-hexanedione metabolite that makes n-hexane an especially neurotoxic hydrocarbon.

 

[Chucknutter]

I shall research the metabolites as much as possible then. I don't want to end up getting and alcohol that is much more toxic than ethanol. I'll try make sure there's no hidden nasties that come from the metabolism of 2 butanol or Isobutanol.
Thanks!

 

[Dresden]

Try 1-hydroxypropane or 1-hydroxypentane. Sec-butanol is a nasty idea because it will metabolize into methyl ethyl ketone.

 

[Chucknutter]

Try 1-hydroxypropane or 1-hydroxypentane. Sec-butanol is a nasty idea because it will metabolize into methyl ethyl ketone.

I understand that methyl ethyl ketone would obviously be bad for you, but would it be any more toxic than acetaldehyde?
I read on some thread here that propionic acid is toxic, however I haven't yet researched this myself.

 

[Dresden]

Terminal chain alcohols are better. Acetaldehyde is quickly metabolized to vinegar, whereas methyl ethyl ketone is more metabolically durable. Tert-butanol, a branched chain hydrocarbon alcohol, isn't oxidized metabolicaly at all. Not sure if that is a good, bad, or neutral thing, though. I know I don't want to try any anyway.

 

[Chucknutter]

Terminal chain alcohols are better. Acetaldehyde is quickly metabolized to vinegar, whereas methyl ethyl ketone is more metabolically durable. Tert-butanol, a branched chain hydrocarbon alcohol, isn't oxidized metabolicaly at all. Not sure if that is a good, bad, or neutral thing, though. I know I don't want to try any anyway.

Alright, that makes sense. I'm currently suffering from an ethanol hangover so I'll definitely continue my search for an alternate alcohol. Hopefully I'll be able to get my hands on something like 2m2b which doesn't seem to be too toxic

 

[Xorkoth]

I have used 2m2b, went through about 70mL of a 100mL bottle and tossed it out. I don't like it nearly as much as ethanol. The duration is too long, and there is less euphoria, it' just like whoa, I'm drunk. Pretty sedating, moreso than ethanol. But a lot less sociability and euphoria. There's less memory impairment though. However it seriously lasts for like a day, it's nuts. I didn't get the same kind of hangover as ethanol and it did feel probably less toxic, but the next day I felt shitty because I was still a little on it and groggy and it took much of the day to come out of it, with some hangover of some sort. It felt better on my internal organs I think. Also it tastes like nail polish remover crossed with some weird version of mint but in a really unpleasant way. I would put it in large gel caps, 1mL per capsule, and I could taste it through the capsule. You get 2m2b burps every few minutes and they're awful. It felt not quite right in my body. Yeah ethanol is (probably) more toxic, as it produces acetaldehyde, but 2m2b didn't feel quite right to me.

 

[Chucknutter]

I have used 2m2b, went through about 70mL of a 100mL bottle and tossed it out. I don't like it nearly as much as ethanol. The duration is too long, and there is less euphoria, it' just like whoa, I'm drunk. Pretty sedating, moreso than ethanol. But a lot less sociability and euphoria. There's less memory impairment though. However it seriously lasts for like a day, it's nuts. I didn't get the same kind of hangover as ethanol and it did feel probably less toxic, but the next day I felt shitty because I was still a little on it and groggy and it took much of the day to come out of it, with some hangover of some sort. It felt better on my internal organs I think. Also it tastes like nail polish remover crossed with some weird version of mint but in a really unpleasant way. I would put it in large gel caps, 1mL per capsule, and I could taste it through the capsule. You get 2m2b burps every few minutes and they're awful. It felt not quite right in my body. Yeah ethanol is (probably) more toxic, as it produces acetaldehyde, but 2m2b didn't feel quite right to me.

Thanks for your input!
I suppose everyone has their own preferred drugs and even those that like GABAergics have their own preferences within that class of drugs. Everyone seems to love Xanax whereas I found it mediocre at best. I guess I shall only know which alcohol I like the most thorough experimentation.

What would you give ethanol and 2m2b on a scale of 1 to 10?

 

[Xorkoth]

I think Xanax is a shit recreational drug, benzos in general actually. I never get how there's such a huge xanax abuse problem, to me all it does is make me feel sleepy and forget things.

Out of all GABAergics I've tried on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being GHB and 1 being, I dunno, some shitty benzo, I'd give ethanol an 8 and 2m2b a 4 or 5. It's not bad but I won't use it ever again.

 

[Chucknutter]

I think Xanax is a shit recreational drug, benzos in general actually. I never get how there's such a huge xanax abuse problem, to me all it does is make me feel sleepy and forget things.

Out of all GABAergics I've tried on a scale of 1-10 with 10 being GHB and 1 being, I dunno, some shitty benzo, I'd give ethanol an 8 and 2m2b a 4 or 5. It's not bad but I won't use it ever again.

I would certainly agree about Xanax. It definitely made me less anxious but that's about all, certainly nothing to write home about.

You'd rate ethanol so highly? Admittedly, I have done very few GABAergics however I haven't felt ethanol to be particularly exciting since I first started drinking under my parent's noses.

 

[Xorkoth]

Yeah I like ethanol, the hangovers and toxicity suck but in terms of enjoyable,euphoric effects, it's up there. GHB is a 10, phenibut is a 9. But that's just a GABAergic scale. I'd rate most psychedelics like a 30 on a 1 to 10 scale of GABAergics.

I have had periods of time when I didn't like ethanol much. It's grown on me as I've gotten older. Part of it is how you drink, you have to do it at the right rate and shitty quality alcohol has more negative side effects. The hangover always sucks if you get really drunk though. And it's really bad for you, mostly because it metabolizes to acetaldehyde which is quite toxic. The actual ethanol itself isn't very toxic. Likewise, methanol, which you should NEVER drink because it causes blindness and death, isn't very toxic, but it metabolizes to formaldehyde which is horribly toxic. The reason the tertiary alcohols like 2m2b are substantially less toxic is because they metabolize into things that aren't particularly toxic, unlike the primary alcohols.

 

[Chucknutter]

Yeah I like ethanol, the hangovers and toxicity suck but in terms of enjoyable,euphoric effects, it's up there. GHB is a 10, phenibut is a 9. But that's just a GABAergic scale. I'd rate most psychedelics like a 30 on a 1 to 10 scale of GABAergics.

I have had periods of time when I didn't like ethanol much. It's grown on me as I've gotten older. Part of it is how you drink, you have to do it at the right rate and shitty quality alcohol has more negative side effects. The hangover always sucks if you get really drunk though. And it's really bad for you, mostly because it metabolizes to acetaldehyde which is quite toxic. The actual ethanol itself isn't very toxic. Likewise, methanol, which you should NEVER drink because it causes blindness and death, isn't very toxic, but it metabolizes to formaldehyde which is horribly toxic. The reason the tertiary alcohols like 2m2b are substantially less toxic is because they metabolize into things that aren't particularly toxic, unlike the primary alcohols.

I certainly agree with you about the psychedelics. Sadly I've only done lsd once however I can certainly see it's mind expanding potential and I can't wait to try it again some time.

Luckily for a spritely young one like myself, my ethanol hangovers are never too bad but that doesn't change how bad it is for me. A big reason why I'm looking into alcohol alternatives is its toxicity. You wouldn't consider another alcohol simply to somewhat negate it's toxicity?

I'd also really like to try phenibut sometime, however I hear it's piss easy to get a dependency on it. Did tolerance or dependence happen rapidly for you?

 

[Xorkoth]

No actually, it took a while to develop. But if you used it daily it would happen quickly. Phenibut is best used every 3 days or less often. If you do that, you can avoid dependence. I actually find phenibut not compulsive at all, even though I absolutely love it and consider it in my top 5 drugs of all time. I think it's because it takes like 4 hours to come on, and the effects are not "acute", it's more like it alters your background state. It makes me feel happy, euphoric, even slightly manic (in a good way), energetic, inspired (especially for music), and very sociable, totally fearless. But if you dose right, it's easy to forget you'er on a drug, it's more just like you're having the best day. Lasts for like 24 hours too. I've been dependent on it 3 times over the last 14 years. Every time I've decided to get off, I don't find it difficult to taper and only take it when I have decided to, unlike other drugs where I get the idea in my head and break my rules and can't hep myself. These days I take it once every week or two, for when I am playing shows or going to music festivals, and since I've been dependent a few times, I get a couple of days of feeling slightly withdrawaly, but it's not a big deal.

If you never used it too often, it could remain a valuable tool. It's really good at what it does. It's the only drug I've ever used that so consistently makes me feel so good, that I don't feel fiendy about. I had a spell with GHB and I basically used it til it was gone and constantly broke my promises to myself, no self-control at all. Actually the last time I got addicted to phenibut, I had been using it without dependence for like 2 years, and then I got my hands on some GHB, had always wanted to try it. I got dependent on the GHB and started getting tremors and panic attacks when I ran out so I used phenibut to get off GHB, then over about 6 months I weaned down off the phenibut. It was like methadone for GHB.

 

[Chucknutter]

No actually, it took a while to develop. But if you used it daily it would happen quickly. Phenibut is best used every 3 days or less often. If you do that, you can avoid dependence. I actually find phenibut not compulsive at all, even though I absolutely love it and consider it in my top 5 drugs of all time. I think it's because it takes like 4 hours to come on, and the effects are not "acute", it's more like it alters your background state. It makes me feel happy, euphoric, even slightly manic (in a good way), energetic, inspired (especially for music), and very sociable, totally fearless. But if you dose right, it's easy to forget you'er on a drug, it's more just like you're having the best day. Lasts for like 24 hours too. I've been dependent on it 3 times over the last 14 years. Every time I've decided to get off, I don't find it difficult to taper and only take it when I have decided to, unlike other drugs where I get the idea in my head and break my rules and can't hep myself. These days I take it once every week or two, for when I am playing shows or going to music festivals, and since I've been dependent a few times, I get a couple of days of feeling slightly withdrawaly, but it's not a big deal.

If you never used it too often, it could remain a valuable tool. It's really good at what it does. It's the only drug I've ever used that so consistently makes me feel so good, that I don't feel fiendy about. I had a spell with GHB and I basically used it til it was gone and constantly broke my promises to myself, no self-control at all. Actually the last time I got addicted to phenibut, I had been using it without dependence for like 2 years, and then I got my hands on some GHB, had always wanted to try it. I got dependent on the GHB and started getting tremors and panic attacks when I ran out so I used phenibut to get off GHB, then over about 6 months I weaned down off the phenibut. It was like methadone for GHB.

Phenibut has been on my list for a while but I may have to bump it up a few places after reading that! It certainly sounds like a good drug to use for anxiety or sociability purposes. I hadn't considered it too much because GABAergics have nasty withdrawals and I heard you developed withdrawals fast with phenibut. Seeing that I should be alright if I use it responsibly makes me want to try it more.

It's great that you could use it to get off ghb! I never thought of using phenibut like methadone. Doctors seem to prescribe benzos for alcohol addicts but I always wondered what you should give the benzo(or ghb) addicts, seems like I have my answer