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Pilocarpine (vs. Nicotine?)

jasoncrest

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Sep 15, 2003
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I would like to get more informations on Pilocarpine.
It is OTC where I live, si I would be very interested if it was a good chemical..

Here is what I found on Wikipedia:
Pilocarpine is a muscarinic alkaloid obtained from the leaves of tropical American shrubs from the genus Pilocarpus. It acts as a muscarinic receptor agonist in the parasympathetic nervous system.

Is is addictive like Nicotine?
Does it even feel like Nicotine?

What is the difference between a nicotinic agonist and a muscarinic agonist?
 
why would anyone want to consume a substance like nicotine - an extremely potent and lethal chemical that in this country, was used as a pesticide for many years, until they banned it because it was too toxic?

just a thought.
 
You might want to look into Arecolin,used to smoke it when I got hold of a bottle.While mild,it left something I still remember.Surely better than just tobacco.
 
Arecoline is interesting. I've only ever used it from chewing betel nuts, and its effects were mild at best. But certainly something was present. However, it left a strange feeling behind my eyes that I've come to associate with toxicity.
 
I don't want to open another thread for a related question:

If someone was addicted to Nictoine, or any nicotinic or muscarinic agonist, would taking an Anticholinergic drug throw him in some kind of withdrawal?
 
jasoncrest said:
I would like to get more informations on Pilocarpine.
Forget it, it is used externally (in eye drops) to reduce pressure inside the eye. Can be used to reduce pupil dilation to avoid being conspicuous after having taken an illicit drug.

More generally, if a drug or chemical is not reasonably well-known as a street-drug, it's usually rubbish.
 
^^ That's really not true. I suppose the majority of unknown chemicals aren't recreational, but there are a large number of them that are.
 
Can be used to reduce pupil dilation to avoid being conspicuous after having taken an illicit drug.

What drug do you mean? Taking pilocarpine to reduce dilatation of pupils caused by stimulant consumption would make you sweat like a horse.
 
xxl said:
More generally, if a drug or chemical is not reasonably well-known as a street-drug, it's usually rubbish.

Yes, it seems to be a shitty substance (for recreation/pleasure)....
But I'm still very interested in nicotinic and muscarinic agonists... I can't find all the infos I need on Google....
 
*shakes his head* odd thread.

Pilocarpine is a muscarinic receptor agonist, not a nicotonic receptor agonist. While in the parasympathetic nervous system, it will have vaguely similar effects as nicotine, otherwise, it will not.

Most (all) anticholinergics are muscarinic receptor antagonists, not nicotinic antagonists, hence they will not effect nicotine effects.
 
BilZ0r said:
*shakes his head* odd thread.

Yes I know... since I discovered that an acetylcholine agonist (nicotine) could cause pleasure, I'm interested in everything that is related to nicotinic and muscarinic agonists...
 
jasoncrest said:
Yes I know... since I discovered that an acetylcholine agonist (nicotine) could cause pleasure, I'm interested in everything that is related to nicotinic and muscarinic agonists...

nicotinic agonists... it seems to have gone rather quiet on the epibatidine ABT-594 front. I would have expected to have seen more on this, does anyone know what stage they have got to with it. Epibatidine is too cardiotoxic but ABT-594 ABT-418 both look interesting as they are more seolective for CNS receptors. The chemistry is really interesting.

I'm suprised the RC vendors haven't put it out, it probably isn't that much fun but i bet its more fun then Benzyl piperazine and some of the other shite they offer. don't think thay have the synthetic abilities.

www.abdn.ac.uk/chemistry/abt/
http://www.phc.vcu.edu/Feature/oldfeature/epi/
 
There's No Comparison.

(pilocarpine, parasympathetic, sedating) vs. (nicotine, sympathetic, stimulating)
 
Pilocarpine is a convulsant, though I'm not sure what the convulsant dose is relative to the therapeutic/recreational one.
 
vecktor said:
nicotinic agonists... it seems to have gone rather quiet on the epibatidine ABT-594 front. I would have expected to have seen more on this, does anyone know what stage they have got to with it. Epibatidine is too cardiotoxic but ABT-594 ABT-418 both look interesting as they are more seolective for CNS receptors. The chemistry is really interesting.

I'm suprised the RC vendors haven't put it out, it probably isn't that much fun but i bet its more fun then Benzyl piperazine and some of the other shite they offer. don't think thay have the synthetic abilities.

www.abdn.ac.uk/chemistry/abt/
http://www.phc.vcu.edu/Feature/oldfeature/epi/

I wonder how much crap cigarette makers would get if they tried to make cigarettes with something that had higher affinity for nicotinic receptors/the dopamine receptors. It's not exactly as if cigarettes are FDA approved... or are they approved because of the labelling?
 
blase deviant said:
I wonder how much crap cigarette makers would get if they tried to make cigarettes with something that had higher affinity for nicotinic receptors/the dopamine receptors. It's not exactly as if cigarettes are FDA approved... or are they approved because of the labelling?

I think the FDA/DEA position is the same pragmatic view most regulators take :- that if tobacco was suddenly discovered today then they would try to prevent its sale by making it illegal, but because its already here and there is a lot of money involved, they put up with it. The tobacco lobby is powerful, well connected and very effective. the drug legalisation lobby in comparison is a total non-entity. The only country with a total ban on smoking tobacco is Bhutan, all they have done is create a lucrative illicit market.

I can only really talk about the UK situtation, but in the UK nicotine in the form of cigarettes/tobacco is specificallly exempt from a lot of medicinal products legislation, but pure nicotine itself is controlled as a medicinal product...so the impure natural product can be sold anywhere, the pure ingredient is controlled, in some countries pharmaceutical nicotine, in the form of patches, inhalors and gums are prescription only. there is also no attempt to promote nicotine patches, gums etc as cigarrette replacements, they are specifically marketed as quitting aids and are designed not to fully substitute for the nicotine hit from cigarettes. I understand in the UK there was a deal done in the mid 80's between regulators and manufacturers of nicotine type quitting aids regarding the promotion and design of the products.

Epibatidine type compounds for recreational use would only be tolerated if they were sensibly introduced and backed by a rich and powerful lobby, and such a lobby would have to be richer and more powerful than the tobbacco lobby. never going to happen. if the epibatitine type compounds are fun than they will rapidly become prescription only and controlled drugs.

Tobacco manufacturers are not interested in more effective and safer replacements for cigarettes, the profit margin on tobacco is more than sufficient. they also know that by introducing a safer form they tacitly admit that the current forms are unsafe... they can absorb any current litigation costs and pass it on to the consumer but cannot take a massive hit.
Governments by the same token know that it is easily taxed and provides a very good revenue stream, far greater than the health care costs, so thay make a noise about preventing smoking, but in reality they are not too bothered, except when they think they will not get their duty!!! it all seems to work rather well, the big players win. The small players lose.

that has become a bit of a rant,
apologies
v
 
Helios. said:
(pilocarpine, parasympathetic, sedating) vs. (nicotine, sympathetic, stimulating)

That's an incredibly simplistic view. Nicotine is a sympathomimetic at first and then a parasympathomimetic, hence the relaxation addicts feel when they smoke.
 
I think selective nicotinic agonists might have more potential as recreational drugs.

Selective antagonists of the alpha3beta4 subtype (such as ibogaine, 18-methoxycoronaridine, bupropion, mecamylamine) reduce the addictive effects of most drugs of abuse (opiates, amphetamines, cocaine, nicotine) and can be used as anti-addictive drugs.

What this makes me wonder is whether a selective alpha3beta4 agonist would have recreational potential in its own right? Or would it just make you hang out for any drugs you are already addicted to? I don't think an agonist selective for this subtype has been made yet though.
 
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