Misc Piccamilon

[dopemegently]

I've only just found out about this drug; it seems very interesting to me. It's pretty much another one of these "Russian cosmonaut drugs"-just like phenibut, they've added an extra ingredient (niacin) to naturally occurring gaba, allowing it to cross the BBB. Picamillon is said to act as both sedative and stimulant, dependent on dosage. (In fact, I read a study saying it's effective as a mild sedative in the mg per kg of body weight range-I would have to consume 5+ grams of phenibut to get that effect!)

Erowid has very little info on this, so I'd be really interested to hear if this is worth trying. I should add I use phenibut a hell of a lot, and am thinking of using picamillon to wean myself off of it. One question I have is how long do the effects of piccamillon last for, and is it addictive like phenibut? (I've scoured the net, and apparently it doesn't seem to be.)

Edit: a newbie question I know, but considering picamillon is gaba bonded to niacin at a molecular level, could simply taking gaba with niacin yield similar results?

 

[sekio]

is it addictive like phenibut?

Every GABAergic that is active enough to produce an effect will also be addictive. Those that aren't addictive are either too weak or not active at GABA A/B.

Taking GABA with niacin won't work any more than trying to season your fries with a mixture of sodium metal and chlorine gas.

 

[dopemegently]

Thanks for the reply. I think this could possibly be of some use in my phenibut detox (it's a problem of mine, I take v large amounts), as I read that picamilon stimulates the brains natural gaba uptake. However I'm not sure if there's any truth to that though.

 

[bunge]

When I googled this it came up with a fair bit of information on picamilon but one site did state that its half-life is just half an hour. Im not sure If thats correct but if it is then it will likely be unsuitable for withdrawal.
Can you get pregabalin? That stuff is amazing for GABA withdrawals.

 

[bingey]

This stuff is like a toned-down version of phenibut, if you are going to use it recreationally and have poor-self control like I do then that's a good thing.

 

[velmwend]

One thing I will say for picamilon: it's stopped me reaching for the benzo pouch and has given a couple nights comfy sleep

 

[Shamanism]

I don't get any very noticable calming effects, but I only took low doses (and it seems GABA A antagonists work better with females). Picamilon does greatly reduce my migraine type headaches I used to have!

 

[dopemegently]

Thanks for all the replies (I thought this thread was gonna die for a minute there..). I'm unsure about picamilon right now; it's more expensive than phenibut, and it affects exactly the same receptors, so replacing it could be pointless. I think my original idea of using etizolam may be better for a detox after all.

Do you think phenibut is cross-tolerant with picamilon btw? (So little info on these "internet" drugs).

 

[QUARE]

I dont think so, Phenibut is a GABAb agonist and Picamilon is likely a GABAa agonist the effect is probably different.

Using Etizolam is a good idea IMO because Etizolam is mild and it will remove the withdrawal without getting you high. Just dont switch from one to another. I think 0,5 to 1mg would be enough and just taper off a little every 3 days. If you have acces to a decent scale I would recomend to reduce 0,2 every 3 days starting with 1mg.

 

[velmwend]

I take back what I said about sleep, lol.

One thing I have noticed: picamillion and alcohol - good combo.

 

[dopemegently]

Phenibut and booze ROCK! (I imagine the same is true of picamilon, too).

I stopped phenibut cold for 3 days (at 9+ grams per day), with the aid of etizolam; I've noticed benzos can make excellent detox drugs, provided you exercise self-control, and don't become dependent on the benzo...luckily, I've never found benzos to be particularly euphoric or addicting, so that's never been much of a problem for me.

I think I will try picamilon-it seems to be active at lower doses than phenibut, so it could be worth a shot. If It's half-life really is a mere one hour, it will he absolutely useless for WD. I don't have access to pregabalin myself; the NHS are tighter than a ducks arsehole when it comes to medication...they really don't want us to have access to the really useful meds, and there's no real black market here for a med such as pregabalin (barring the odd trickle here and there).

 

[bunge]

I know a number of people who get prescribed pregabalin (including myself) for anxiety and neuropathic pain. So it is do-able, just usually through a psychiatrist recommendation. Gabapentin would be nearly as good and is generally alot more availiable.

 

[velmwend]

I'm beginning to wonder whether picamilon is interacting badly with my ssri meds. I started taking picamilon on sunday night, 100mg each night, and I've felt flat in mood during the day. :-/ I feel *very* flat today - I feel as if my SSRI med isn't working at all. :-/

Either that or I'm totally knackered because I've hardly slept since starting it, lol. I'm not taking it at night any more. It most certainly doesn't have the sleep enhancing effects of phenibut, but does bring a sense of well being, in the evening, when combined with white wine.

 

[velmwend]

Interesting article about niacin: Vitamin B3 may hold secret to a long, healthy life released today.

 

[dopemegently]

It's amazing what benefits taking some vitamins and supplements can have for your health (interesting article btw).

According to wikipidia, picamilon actually helps the brain naturally uptake natural gaba; that's why I was thinking it could be useful during a gaba agonist detox. ^^ I also read it has some serotonin activity, so it could be interfering with your SSRIs in some way; you'd be better off not using the picamilon for a while and see if the situation resolves itself. Better to be safe than sorry.

Of course IME I'd say the real culprit is almost certainly lack of sleep...

As for myself, my goal is to reduce my phenibut intake to no more than 2.5 grams a day, 3 days a week. I've been trawling dozens of phenibut threads and have found some promising ideas. 1: Change my ROA. As we know, phenibut is highly acidic, so changing it's ph level to the optimal ph7 is crucial to safely utilize these more "direct" ROA. Any suggestions on how to do this btw? Firstly, there's intranasal; not so promising, also sounds very painful and damaging to the nasal membranes. Next, there's IR; promising...reducing acidity to avoid damaging my intestinal wall is critical here, of course. And then there's IV and IM; NO, NO, NO! And of course, there's sublingual; I'm hearing very, very good things about this: I like it. These ROA I'm contemplating have the benefits of both getting more effect from smaller amounts of phenibut, and also (hopefully), decreasing phenibuts lengthy onset time. Of course, phenibut is absorbed exclusively through the stomach and liver, so my alternative ROA could all be utterly pointless. Is it possible to increase the BA of phenibut? Any suggestions welcome.

Also, I'm thinking multi-drug potentiation is very promising. I've looked over many combos, and simply taking phenibut with plain gaba could potentially work.Obviously gaba can't cross the BBB, and it's not psycho-active, but nonetheless I've been reading some intriguing evidence that gaba in the right doses does actually seem to have gaba-b, mild sedative, and anti-anxiety action. (Perhaps if the dosage is right, some gaba could cross the BBB?) The study I read said that a group of agoraphobics were split into two groups. Half were given placebo, half were given high doses of plain gaba. After being exposed to high-stress situations, the gaba group were found to have significantly lower stress levels than the placebo group, and significantly higher gaba-b activity. Interesting...I've also read quite a lot of anecdotal evidence that taking phenibut with gaba can intensify the effects thanks to excellent synergy. We all know gaba is dirt cheap; I could reduce my phenibut dosage by "cutting" it with gaba. Any suggestions on how to prepare the two in a compound to ensure maximum synergy? (I've heard converting phenibut to a salt could improve the drug, but that's way beyond my skill-set.)

The gaba+phenibut idea could be bollocks, but you never know: I could be onto something. (I've been reading some very intriguing evidence to suggest this, however). Any other phenibut combo ideas would be greatly appreciated.

 

[velmwend]

I'm beginning to wonder whether picamilon is interacting badly with my ssri meds. I started taking picamilon on sunday night, 100mg each night, and I've felt flat in mood during the day. :-/ I feel *very* flat today - I feel as if my SSRI med isn't working at all. :-/

Either that or I'm totally knackered because I've hardly slept since starting it, lol. I'm not taking it at night any more. It most certainly doesn't have the sleep enhancing effects of phenibut, but does bring a sense of well being, in the evening, when combined with white wine.

Sorry picamilon - I was blaming you but it was a virus I was coming down with. I'll re-try again when I've got rid of this bug.

Dopermegently - I'd give the picamilon a go, you know. A light regime of picamilon and etiz should sort y'out

 

[dopemegently]

The etiz is working wonders for me right now, it just kills that horrible sense of anxiety from not dosing phenibut, and helps me sleep. (Only downer is I've got about 1-2 days supply left.

I just wish there was more known about phenibut, picamilon etc.