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Peter Deunov and Esoteric Christianity

Ninae

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So I've made some crazy threads about random things I don't really worry about much, so to make up for it I thought I would make a serious thread that might be a bit more constructive, and bring forth something not many seems to be aware of.

Peter Deunov was a teacher of Esoteric Christianty, the kind considerd to be closest to what Christ taught, which works out as a combination of the teachings of the East and West.

It's well know that Jesus travellled the world extensively to study the scriptures and with the spiritual teachers of the time before he becan to teach. He wasn't denied access anywhere he went, as those n the know could see his inherent divinity and all the Divine miracles he could perforn, and so on. He's said to have left for Egypt when he was only 13 and didn't feel the country he was born in had any more to teach him. And supposedly he spent the most time in Egypt where he was initiated into the ancent Egyptian mysteries and so on.

Then after than he also spent a long time studying in India, which was also a manjor spiritual center, and some time in the Arabic or Muslim countries where he was also instructed in Islam.

So when he came back, though he mostly relied on his inner intuition and his connection with God, the belief system he created (the original one, not the one we have now) was a kind of blend between Jewish, Egyptian, Indian, Arabic, and God knows what else. So he had studied theology long and well before he started teaching and I also think he had the ability to separate out the truth from what he was told.

Anway, the early or gnostic forms of Christianity were qute close to what he oroginally thought, but there are so many changes made, for each bew translation there were changes added to suit political goals. And many Things he said were deliberately changed. For instance, he would say, "I am not the only way" , because he had seen so many ways, but that was changed to say "I am the only way - and you cn never Reach God except through me", etc. For political reasons, to put fear in the People and keep them in lne.

Although that was never his intention, he came to spread truth, but you know what it's lke, spritual truth and growth take a backseat to the Money/Power games in this world.

Well, that was what I wanted to say about Jesus, as he was his greatest role-model. Looks a bit cooler seen through this light than the Bible, doesn't he (thought it's probably around 50% true like all major religions). Well, now you have some background of Jesus and what he really came to teach. I will get into Peter Deunov in my next post and maybe it can give you some hope.


(Scroll down to get to the quotes)

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There is a lot to say about him, so I'll just start out with this.

He's just the philosopher/spiritual teacher who has impressed me the most during the past Century, even if his teachings were repressed by the Communist regime. All I know is that Christ was the one he modelled himself on, so that's why I included some background information about that. Things that he would have known but most of us wouldn't.


Here is a small synopsis of his work to begin with:


"In the fulfillment of the will of God lies the power of the human soul"

"Beinsa Douno (Peter Deunov), is a teacher of Esoteric Christianity, who lived and taught in Bulgaria during the first half of the 20th century.

His knowledge, character, and powers, all mark him as a rare messenger of Divine Reality. He had a very large following when he passed on, but his teaching was suppressed by the Communist regime. In recent years, this teaching, and its associated spiritual practices, have begun to bloom again, as the Bulgarians enjoy a greater degree of freedom.

This teaching covers all aspects of life, with a special emphasis on music, spiritual dance, and communion with God in Nature."


I just have a sense these teachings would appeal more to those who aren't attracted to traditional Christianity or organised religion as a whole. And if this isn't good enough, what could be?
 
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Even my biology teacher used to say "Jesus was a historical figure" although he was an Atheist. There are endless eyewitness accounts of him and no doubt of his physical existence (have you read Pontus Pilatus' description of him?).

So the debate isn't exactly about whether he existed but whether he was as divine as he claimed. It's also highly unlikely that such a large religion with such a dramatic impact on the world came from nothing and no one.

Anyway, when you start to rid yourself of your hedonism/guilt (not speaking to you personally but to people in general) you will start to appreciate Jesus and he will move closer from personal experience.
 
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I get it, I only believe about 50% of the Bible can be true, anyway, as it has been re-written so many times for dubious reasons. However, I do believe in Jesus, and that you can even call on him for healing and so.

Here is a letter from Pontus Pilatus to Tiberius Cæsar, which makes it seem a bit more real than the challenge to get through that is the Bible:


"A young man appeared in Galilee preaching with humble unction, a new law in the Name of the God that had sent Him. At first I was apprehensive that His design was to stir up the people against the Romans, but my fears were soon dispelled. Jesus of Nazareth spoke rather as a friend of the Romans than of the Jews.

One day I observed in the midst of a group of people a young man who was leaning against a tree, calmly addressing the multitude. I was told it was Jesus. This I could easily have suspected so great was the difference between Him and those who were listening to Him. His golden colored hair and beard gave to his appearance a celestial aspect. He appeared to be about 30 years of age.

Never have I seen a sweeter or more serene countenance. What a contrast between Him and His bearers with their black beards and tawny complexions! Unwilling to interrupt Him by my presence, I continued my walk but signified to my secretary to join the group and listen. Later, my secretary reported that never had he seen in the works of all the philosophers anything that compared to the teachings of Jesus. He told me that Jesus was neither seditious nor rebellious, so we extended to Him our protection. He was at liberty to act, to speak, to assemble and to address the people. This unlimited freedom provoked the Jews -- not the poor but the rich and powerful.

Later, I wrote to Jesus requesting an interview with Him at the Praetorium. He came. When the Nazarene made His appearance I was having my morning walk and as I faced Him my feet seemed fastened with an iron hand to the marble pavement and I trembled in every limb as a guilty culprit, though he was calm. For some time I stood admiring this extraordinary Man. There was nothing in Him that was repelling, nor in His character, yet I felt awed in His presence. I told Him that there was a magnetic simplicity about Him and His personality that elevated Him far above the philosophers and teachers of His day.

Now, Noble Sovereign, these are the facts concerning Jesus of Nazareth and I have taken the time to write you in detail concerning these matters. I say that such a man who could convert water into wine, change death into life, disease into health; calm the stormy seas, is not guilty of any criminal offense and as others have said, we must agree -- truly this is the Son of God."


And, truly, this impressed me more than anything I've ever read in any Bible. I just feel as we are just taught about Jesus in the most boring, uninspirering way. Always shown as a feeble, suffering, figure hanging on a cross where no one would want to be. Instead he should be shown at the height of his glory and power, as he was for most of his life, if they really wanted us to be inspired by him.

But do they? No. We have been (spiritually) tricked into believing being anti-Jesus is cool or good for you. At least those who lack much in the way of spiritual senses or can't think for themselves.

I don't expect anyone to take me at my word here, so I thought I would provide some quotes in installments that will make it easier to read. It's not for everyone, but should attract true spiritual seekers and the right kind of person. And I hope it will be appreciated by some as it's very rare to come by and a true privilige to get to read.

I also imagine it must be some of the closest to what Jesus would have thought: Simple and inspirering and something that could motivate the common, uneducated people at the time, as opposed to the religious intelligensia. So he accomplished what they couldn't, as this kind of teaching goes straight to the heart, especially when (or only then) it's delivered with love.

It might also be appreciated by those of you who love poetry as everything sort of naturally flows in an effortlessly poetic way. In fact, I've found the highest-level truths are often delivered that way. Also, keep in mind that these are not my words, but now a hundred years old.



THE WORDS OF THE MASTER PETER DEUNOV​


"The separation of the human soul from God is one of the most sublime moments in Creation. This separation is known in the world of the angels as the dawning of the human soul. The soul emerges from its initial source like a Divine ray, and enters into the boundless universe to do the work which is in store for it."

"The soul is eternal. It is eternal just as God is eternal. But, while God is absolutely unchangeable, the soul is constantly changing, and thus it develops and acquires new qualities."

"The people of today have no knowledge of the soul. They are not conscious of themselves as souls, but rather as personalities. The personality is the physical man, and not the real self - the soul. People know the personalities of others, but not their souls, which are their true neighbors."

"As long as people do not accept the idea that they are living, intelligent souls, as long as they continue to be conscious of themselves only as personalities, as minds and hearts, as men and women, they will accomplish nothing. All these forms of consciousness have already been experienced."

"However, if people acknowledge in their consciousness that they are living, intelligent souls, then they will introduce something new into their lives, and will give themselves a new direction."

"Only within the soul can God manifest Himself in His fullness, and Love can be fully expressed only through the soul. If you express your love only through your heart, it will be only half-expressed. If you express your love only through your mind, it will again be only half-expressed."

"All the weaknesses in the world arise from things done by halves."

"Up to now, the human soul has been developing into a bud. In our epoch, this bud is beginning to open. This opening of the bud-soul is one of the greatest moments of the cosmos. It is called the blossoming of the human soul."

"They know that the human soul is a sacred book in which God, in a special manner unknown to them, has written the development of all of Creation."

"Because of this, they await the blossoming of the human soul with divine anticipation. The blossom into which this soul will bloom, will shine forth with all its beauty, and God will infuse it with His light and His love."

"There is a beauty in the human soul which no other being in life possesses."

"It is incomparable beauty. Even God rejoices when He looks at the form of the human soul."

"All the angels, all the servants of God will come when the human soul blossoms. From time immemorial they have awaited its blossoming in order to taste its nectar."

"And when they come, they will bring the new culture which I name "the culture of Love."

"When Christ descended to earth, He came precisely to help the human souls, because each soul that comes down to earth has a specific task which it alone must fulfill."

"Only souls that are loving and luminous are capable of helping other souls. They have finished their tests on earth. Divine consciousness has been awakened within them. Because of this, they do not desire to leave the earth. They say, "We shall live now on earth under any conditions. We shall live as God wills that we live. Now we understand the right way to live."

"Nothing is impossible for the human soul which strives to elevate itself. It is strong because of its ties with other souls which are its kindred."

"The greater the number of souls with which the human soul is connected, the stronger and more invulnerable it is. The success of the soul depends upon the number of souls with which it is connected. The consciousness of those luminous souls who participate in the life of a soul on earth is constantly concentrated on Love and thus, they help the soul selflessly."

"Therefore, the art of earthly life is this: while man is on earth, within this small physical form, he should come in contact with the souls of others. This is the key to success. Even if only one soul loves you, it is in a position to help you in the difficulties of life."

"But when many souls direct their love toward a person he can become anything - a poet, a painter, a musician, a man of science. Love is a great power."
 
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Aside from speaking much, did he actually provide anything of tangible and practical value so people could increase their standing? At the moment it just comes across as 'listen to me and know the truth', which is a bit cultish really.
 
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So I've made some crazy threads about random things I don't really worry about much, so to make up for it I thought I would make a serious thread that might be a bit more constructive, and bring forth something not many seems to be aware of.

Peter Deunov was a teacher of Esoteric Christianty, the kind considerd to be closest to what Christ taught, which works out as a combination of the teachings of the East and West.

It's well know that Jesus travellled the world extensively to study the scriptures and with the spiritual teachers of the time before he becan to teach. He wasn't denied access anywhere he went, as those n the know could see his inherent divinity and all the Divine miracles he could perforn, and so on. He's said to have left for Egypt when he was only 13 and didn't feel the country he was born in had any more to teach him. And supposedly he spent the most time in Egypt where he was initiated into the ancent Egyptian mysteries and so on.

Then after than he also spent a long time studying in India, which was also a manjor spiritual center, and some time in the Arabic or Muslim countries where he was also instructed in Islam.

So when he came back, though he mostly relied on his inner intuition and his connection with God, the belief system he created (the original one, not the one we have now) was a kind of blend between Jewish, Egyptian, Indian, Arabic, and God knows what else. So he had studied theology long and well before he started teaching and I also think he had the ability to separate out the truth from what he was told.

Anway, the early or gnostic forms of Christianity were qute close to what he oroginally thought, but there are so many changes made, for each bew translation there were changes added to suit political goals. And many Things he said were deliberately changed. For instance, he would say, "I am not the only way" , because he had seen so many ways, but that was changed to say "I am the only way - and you cn never Reach God except through me", etc. For political reasons, to put fear in the People and keep them in lne.

Although that was never his intention, he came to spread truth, but you know what it's lke, spritual truth and growth take a backseat to the Money/Power games in this world.

Well, that was what I wanted to say about Jesus, as he was his greatest role-model. Looks a bit cooler seen through this light than the Bible, doesn't he (thought it's probably around 50% true like all major religions). Well, now you have some background of Jesus and what he really came to teach. I will get into Peter Deunov in my next post and maybe it can give you some hope.

Aside from speaking much, did he actually provide anything of tangible and practical value so people could increase their standing? At the moment it just comes across as 'listen to me and know the truth', which is a bit cultish really.

Yes, he was observed to perform miracles of the kind Jesus performed.

He talked about travelling to the sun in his immaterial bodies, etc. And once when he was summoned for an interrigation at the local police station he said if he had wanted to he could have left this plane and never showed up, but came out of respect for the laws in his country.

Anyway, he wasn't one to boast about his powers or demonstrate them needlessly. He acquired a very large following based on it, though, and they escaped up into the mountains as it was frowned upon. But you know the saying, "The more suppressed something is, the closer to the truth".
 
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That doesn't really answer me quetion though Ninae. He may/may not have performed miracles.. unless I see some pretty good evidence I will automatically assume it to have not occurred, and for it to all be hearsay. My question though was 'what did he offer that allowed the average person to increase their spiritual or psychological position, to better themselves?'. I don't include simply talking spiritually as anything practical.. a good modern example is Osho.. lots and lots of talk, but little practical value and there's no system for betterment.
 
Well, what would you require for proof? Video recordings from the time? I assume most of the "proof" would consist of the experiences and transformations of consciousness of the ones who followed him and that so many chose to.

Of course, that is now so long ago we have no way of being sure either way, but that's what it's like with spiritual life. It's partly based on belief until you feel you have enough personal proof for yourself, which is a different process I won't go into now. I just find it to be some of the best I have come across both in vibration/consciousness and quality of ideas.

Either way, you have to believe in something if you want to learn more than you know, and I haven't seen much better than this. Also, can't you jude the quality of a philosophy by the way it inspires you and the transformations which occur inside you?

"The human soul has great depth! Depth and boundlessness! The human soul lives beyond our world, in a world of many more dimensions."

"Only a small projection of the soul reaches down to earth. It appears only from time to time as a guest to the mind and the heart."

"The soul is the spring from which all great thoughts and aspirations flow. And the soul itself is watered by another spring - the human spirit."

"And the human spirit is watered by a still greater spring - the Divine Spirit."

"The Divine Spirit is watered by the greatest of all springs - the absolute, the unknown Spirit of Creation, who is beyond our comprehension."

"Therefore, remember: You are soul, not body!"

"You are a soul conceived at one time by the Divine Spirit, conceived in Love."

"At the present moment, your soul is already a bud, waiting to blossom into a flower."

"Concentrate your consciousness on it, because this is one of the greatest moments of your life!"

"Then you will open yourself out to the great sun that shines over the whole world of God."
 
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But real philosophy is not about believing, it's about doing and becoming. You don't learn the truth, you become it. That's what I ment when does he have anything of practical value that can help a person become. I'm not interested in how something makes me feel.. I'm interested in stuff that will lead me to a proper definition of who I am.. and simply accepting the words of someone is not enough (because they may be full of hot air).
 
Alot of what I read there seemed like some guy on an ego-trip after figuring some shit out.. in my opinion when it comes to Truth, everyone is your teach and your student.. there are no Gurus...


THE MARTINIST DOCTRINE
BY SAR AURIFER.

Like all other esoteric doctrine, that of Martinism, as it was defined by Martinez Pasquales in his Treatise on the Reintegration of Beings uses exoteric means in order to make understandable the more subtle and refined esoteric points which are incomprehensible to the uninitiated when explained in themselves. The legend or myth upon which the Martinist doctrine is based is the reason why it is so intrinsically attached to the Western tradition and more particularly the Christian current.

Concerning the First Cause or God, Martinism is in agreement with the conclusions arrived at by the Christian theologians as well as the Hebrew Kabalists such as the Divine Ternary, or persons; emanations etc...but as far as the rest of the doctrine is concerned, it is more Gnostic since it affirms the equal necessity of faith and knowledge and postulates that divine grace, in order to be effective, must be followed by action, free and intelligent in Man. His is why Martinez Pasquales presented the Doctrine of his school under the Judeo-Christian aspect.

THE DOCTRINE

According to the Martinist Doctrine, the world, considered as a material domain which is subjected to our senses, as well as the spiritual regions above, are not the works of God as considered in His absolute form.
The Gospel of Saint John says: "In the beginning (which refers to the beginning of time, a period when relative beings began to manifest) was the Word" (the Logos, the Divine Word).
"The Word was near to God (and not with God). ...and the Word was God" (not the God but an Elohim or sons of God. The word Elohim is a Hebrew word meaning "Him-the-Gods").
"All things were made by Him, and nothing was made without Him."

The Logos is the one the Kabala calls Adam Kadmon; the one who created the inferior beings by His word "by calling" (bringing) them into manifested life. These beings are inferior only in relation to Adam Kadmon, the archetypal Man, by they inhabit the spiritual realms.

During this creation God used an intermediary. In Genesis chapters 1-3 it is said that the earth (which there means the primordial matter or chaos) was empty and without form, and the Spirit of God moved upon the waters (the Egyptian Nous is comparable to this matter). The term "Spirit of God" is referring to a spirit distinct from God in the sense that it wasn't God Himself since God is necessarily His own spirit.

Later we are told that God placed man in the "Garden of Eden" to watch and cultivate it. This "Garden" is a symbol referring to divine knowledge accessible only to relative beings.

The Man which Genesis refers to in its pure symbolic form is not a being of flesh but a spirit emanated from God and is made of a body (which is sometimes called the glorious body) created by God who infused it with a Divine spark which was, according to Genesis, the "very breath of God". According to this analysis, we see that archetypal man is semi-divine. He came from primordial matter (from chaos, made of symbolic earth and water) from where he got his form, and from the breath which animates him and makes him part of God.

Adam and the creative logos are the same thing. However, Adam and the Redemptory Logos are two different beings.
Parallel to Adam Kadmon, there were other beings from a previous creation. These beings were of a different nature and plane. These were the "Angels" of which it is said that "some were good and others evil". They got those qualities according to their fulfillment of the plan for which they were emanated from God. The "good" Angels were the ones who reintegrated after their mission was over and the evil ones were the ones who refused to reintegrate, choosing the self instead of the All-in-God. The "evil" Angels are the ones who withdrew themselves from God by an act of free will. They are the ones referred to by Pasquales as the "perverse beings".

Since anything that is corrupt tends by its very nature to corrupt other things, especially in the spiritual realms, these perverse beings of which the collectivity becomes an egregore of evil, symbolized by the serpent, was jealous of this being (Adam) who was superior to them and an image of God from whom they pretended to have withdrawn. These beings acted telepathically on Adam and incited him to go beyond the limits of his natural possibilities.

Being mixed by nature, half corporeal and half spiritual, as well as androgynous, Archetypal Man was to maintain a certain harmony, a necessary equilibrium in the domain where God put him. He was to be the Architect of the Universe more subtle than our own, the "kingdom" which was not of this world as mentioned in the Gospels.

Under the impulse of the perverse beings, Archetypal Man made himself an independent demiurge, thereby breaking the very laws he was ordained to observe. He dared to make himself a creator in turn and to be equal to God by his deeds. By attempting this feat, Archetypal Man only modified his original destiny. It is from this tradition that comes the custom of dedicating to the Gods or God the first fruits of the harvest or the first-born of a flock. And since God alone in his infinite possibilities can create or extract something out of nothingness, Archetypal man could only modify what already existed.

Archetypal Man, by wanting to create spiritual beings, only objectified his own concepts. By wanting to give them a body he only integrated them into grosser matter. By wanting to animate chaos, he only trapped himself.
In effect, God being the "I am that I am" rejects the possibility that any oblivion could exist. In order to create primitive matter, God only removed part of His infinite perfections from a part of His infinite essence. This partial retraction of His spiritual perfection resulted in the creation of a relative material imperfection. This is why in this world the creation of whatever it may be can never be perfect since it is not of God.

By imitating the absolute, Adam Kadmon tried to create the first matter. Being an inexperienced alchemist, to attempt such an endeavor only precipitated his fall.

Archetypal Man is an androgynous being: both male and female, positive and negative. It is the negative, feminine element that Adam is going to objectify outside himself. It is the left, feminine, passive, lunary, material side that he is going to separate from the right, masculine, active, solar, spiritual side. This is what gave birth to Eva, the Archetypal Woman.

It is this new matter, the Eva or Archetypal Woman, that Adam penetrated in order to create life. The Archetypal Man thus degraded himself by trying to be like God. This new domain is what the Gnostics called the "hylic" world, which is our material universe filled with pain and imperfections. The little good that exists here comes from the virtues of Archetypal Man. Since being split into two beings, the sum of these imperfections cannot be in its totality with those two beings apart...thus we have the fall.

This is why the old cults deified nature. She was the mother of all that "was under the heavens". Isis, Eva, Demeter, Rea, Cybele, Erzulie, are the symbols of the material nature which is emanated from Adam Kadmon, personified under the aspects of the "Black Virgins" who are symbols of the prima materia.
The superior essence of Adam Kadmon thus integrated in the new matter to become the new SULPHUR, which is the alchemical expression referring to the soul of the world. The second essence which is the plastic mediator, that which constituted the "form" of Adam, his superior double became the MERCURY of the alchemists, referring to what the occultists call the astral world or intermediary world.
The matter which is from the second chaos, which is the SALT of the alchemists, is what became the support, receptacle or prison.

ADAM=SULPHUR
EVA=SALT
CAIN=MERCURY

This is why universal matter is alive and, also, why it can be more or less conscious and intelligent in its manifestations. Through the four kingdoms of nature; mineral, vegetable, animal and human, it is the Archetypal man, the Adam Kadmon, the demiurgic intelligence who is in action dispersed and imprisoned. This new universe also became the refuge of the fallen angels. They came into it in order to be further away from the Absolute.
The perverse beings thus have a primordial interest to see that man, dispersed but everywhere present in matter which constitutes the visible universe, continues to organize and animate this domain which they have claimed.
Just as the soul of Archetypal Man is prisoner of Universal matter, so the soul of individual man is prisoner of the physical body. Physical death and the reincarnations which follow are the means through which the fallen entities exercise their control over man.

The Wisdom, Strength and Beauty that are still manifesting in this material universe are the efforts of Archetypal Man to regain his position which he occupied before the fall. The opposite qualities are being manifested by the fallen entities so as to maintain the climate that they made him create in order to exist as they wanted when they refused to re-enter Omneity.

Archetypal man will not regain his first splendor and freedom unless he separates himself from this matter which binds him everywhere. For this to occur, all his individual cells (individual human beings) will have, after their natural death, to reconstitute the archetype by REINTEGRATING, thus escaping the cycles of reincarnation.
Only then will the Microcosm remake the Macrocosm. The individual human beings, who are but the reflection of the Archetype, will equally be the reflection of the divine as the Archetype himself is the reflection of God, of the Word or Logos, of the "Spirit of God" mentioned in Genesis.

This is why he is the "Great Architect of the Universe"; and all cults of adoration to this latter are ipso facto "satanic" because this adoration is offered to Man and not to the Absolute. In Freemasonry he is invoked but never adored.
But, since Man has to descend into the demoniacal atmosphere of this material world where he is constantly breathing the fruits of his malefic intellect, as Pasquales tells us, he is thus in a bad position to resist the constant temptations to which he is subjected. The CREATOR re-established the equilibrium by detaching from His Spiritual Divine Circle a Major Spirit to be the guide, counselor and companion of the Minor who descends from the celestial immensity to be incorporated in the material world; to work, according to his free will, on the earth plane.

But the counsel of a Superior Spirit is not enough, Fallen Man still needs the help of a "Minor Elect". The help that this "Minor Elect" will bring to him in order that he may achieve the "reconciliation" is of a two fold nature. He transmits to Man directly the instructions of the CREATOR on the theurgic practice which must be rendered; he also communicates to the Man of Desire to whom he is sent, the gift he has received himself by giving him the mystical seal without which no Minor can be reconciled.

This mysterious ordination is the essential condition of man's reconciliation, because without it, no matter how great the personal merits of the Minor, he remains in privation; that is, without any communication with God.
To escape the cycles of reincarnation in this infernal world, man must detach himself from everything that attracts him to matter as well as disengage himself from the slavery of material sensations. He also has to elevate himself morally. The fallen entities, however, constantly fight man's tendency towards perfection by tempting him constantly so as to make him stay in this world where they can maintain their rulership over him.

Individual man must constantly fight against these entities by unmasking and rejecting them from his domain. He will achieve this partly through initiation, which attaches him to the elements of the Archetypes already reunited and which constitute the exoteric "communion of Saints"-and secondly by the liberating knowledge which teaches him the faster means of helping the rest of blind humanity as well as enhancing his personal work.

In these last possibilities we find the great Equinoxal Operations which tend to purify the aura of the earth by means of exorcisms and conjurations using rites of High Magic that the Elus-Cohens called the work of the cult.

Only after these individual liberations will the great collective liberation take place. This will allow the reconstitution of the Archetype and its reintegration into the Divine. Once abandoned by its animator, the material world will dissolve. Left under the anarchic nature of the fallen spirits, matter will dissolve in an accelerated pace and thus the end of the physical universe will take place as announced by the great traditions.

This is the esoteric unfoldment of the Great Universal Work.

==>>OiC<<==

You may want to check out this as well: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sixth_and_Seventh_Books_of_Moses
"The Sixth and Seventh Books of Moses is an 18th- or 19th-century magical text allegedly written by Moses, and passed down as hidden (or lost) books of the Five Books of Moses or Pentateuch. A grimoire, a text of magical incantations and seals, it purports to instruct the reader in the spells used to create the miracles portrayed in the Judaeo-Christian Bible."

http://www.esotericarchives.com/moses/67moses.htm
 
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But real philosophy is not about believing, it's about doing and becoming. You don't learn the truth, you become it. That's what I ment when does he have anything of practical value that can help a person become. I'm not interested in how something makes me feel.. I'm interested in stuff that will lead me to a proper definition of who I am.. and simply accepting the words of someone is not enough (because they may be full of hot air).


He was actually all about the practical and taking action. He invented Panereuthmy (a sacred kind of dance) for one thing. But if you are more against than for these things there is little I can say.

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Personally, I find most spiritual transformations occur from within, so I don't really understand your bias. The external acts more like a trigger, maybe. But maybe you need a lot of triggers.
 
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He was actually all about the practical and taking action. He invented Panereuthmy (a sacred kind of dance) for one thing. But if you are more against than for these things there is little I can say.

Personally, I find most spiritual transformations occur from within, so I don't really understand your bias. The external acts more like a trigger, maybe. But maybe you need a lot of triggers.

What's so sacred about the dance. What makes it any more effective than any of the other dances that exist in various religions, cultures, tribes? Or playing with beads, chanting, praying, mantra's.. on initial inspection it just seems like every other religion, cult, or tribal belief system.. it just doesn't stand out as being any greater or lesser than any other. You got to be suspicious of one man leading a system of belief.. there's an abundance of cults and so forth out there being directed by one man (or the words of a dead man).

What can you offer to me, what proof, that this man/system is better than the others.. that it gives real practical and tangible results? Not being put to sleep, but being awakened. That's all I'm getting at.
 
Your attitude is so negative it's kind of difficult to talk to you about it. You almost sound like an anti-spiritualist. I've never taken part in these dances so I can't say anything about them, but I assume he must have had some purpose for it. There are many dances and systems of movement, like Yoga, Temple Dance, Whirling Dervishes, etc, which has been used for spiritual purposes.

Either way, when it comes to the spiritual things there is no "proof" that you seem to be looking for. You seem to want a TV recording of Jesus so you have the "tangible" proof that would enable you to believe. But that would make it too easy - the whole point is that it's supposed to be a great and complex mystery for us to work out for ourselves. Only then could it be seen as an achievement.

And all religious or spiritual things require a "suspension of belief", or a removal of doubt and where you for a period consider it might be true, unil you find proof or disproof (but this is very personal for everyone and can't really be shared any better than I have now). Good luck and look for "The Wellspring of Good" if you can find it. It seems to have vanished from this existence.
 
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My attitude is not negative.. please don't judge me from what little I've written. I am just highly cynical and very skeptical of anything put forward as spiritual or philosophical.. because there is so much crap out there to waste the time or energy of a serious seeker of Truth. Believe me.. I am very much interested in the Truth. I want to find out who I am. But from what you've presented of this guy and from what I've seen.. I can't involve myself or give my time because I haven't seen enough proof or tangible evidence to warrant the investment of my time or energy. I only have 1 life.. I can't afford to be distracted and waste my time. That's why I asked, bluntly, what practical or tangible system does this guy have that will lead me to the who I am, or the Truth.

You must understand that from what you've presented he just appears to be like any cult leader or egomaniac? If he was the real deal I'm sure I would have heard of him by now.. I've been searching for those who know for some time. I can not afford to suspend my judgement and accept someone at face value.. surely must understand this? If I'm going to invest my time and energy I need some assurance that this is a worthwhile enterprise or system of seeking the Truth. I am always interested in those who know the Truth... but they are far and few between!

Again, I can not afford to suspend my doubt. It is what protects me from all the phony's and charlatan's out there. And boy are there a lot of them!! You have to offer me something tangible.. otherwise I will simply cast this man and his system on the scrap heap along with the hundreds of others I've encountered.
 
there is so much crap out there to waste the time or energy of a serious seeker of Truth.

Believe me.. I am very much interested in the Truth.

...what ... will lead me to ... the Truth.

...the Truth.

I am always interested in those who know the Truth... but they are far and few between!

Hmm... so what is this "Truth" you speak of and who knows it?
 
Hmm... so what is this "Truth" you speak of and who knows it?

The Truth is an absolute realization, an absolute state that one can become, where you are everything and nothing ("god"). Also known as Enlightenment, or sahaja nirvikalpa samadhi. I don't think I've met anyone who's had that experience. The only two people I'm sure who've had it are Richard Rose and Ramana Maharshi.
 
My attitude is not negative.. please don't judge me from what little I've written. I am just highly cynical and very skeptical of anything put forward as spiritual or philosophical.. because there is so much crap out there to waste the time or energy of a serious seeker of Truth. Believe me.. I am very much interested in the Truth.

I am the same way, just more open-minded when confronted by a new philosophy.

One reason for this is also that I've rejected so many for some reason or another. Like, like because I found Christianity boring and unacessible, and felt there was more truth in Eastern religions. To later find that early Christianity, or the original philosophy that Jesus taught, was more like a combination of East and West, or combined of both the life of Christ and Eastern teachings like reincarnation and evolution or enlighenment through many lifetimes. As well as the Egyptian mysteries and the Greek philosophers, and Islam, which influenced him more towards the belief in on God.

So to me, "Esoteric Christianity", or the way he taught is, represents a bit of everything of maybe the best of what we have.

I want to find out who I am. But from what you've presented of this guy and from what I've seen.. I can't involve myself or give my time because I haven't seen enough proof or tangible evidence to warrant the investment of my time or energy. I only have 1 life.. I can't afford to be distracted and waste my time.

Sigh. Maybe you're just very young or new to this but there is no "tangible evidence" when it comes to these things yet. We just haven't come to this kind of marriage between science and religion/philosophy yet. If we had, there wouldn't be any need for discussions like these, as we would already know everything. It would be like a discussion about the colours of the rainbow.

The only "evidence" you can find as of yet is a combination of your subjective experiences and the study of the greater spiritual teachers out there. Jesus was born with a thinner veil between the spiritual world than the most of us, i.e. he remembered more from his spiritual existance from before this life, and was in touch with God and his inner self his whole life. But he still set out to travel the world and study all the religious and philosophical scriptures, some say he left Israel when he was 13, as he felt it had no more to teach him (he was still partly born a MAN and felt the need to study the teachings of those before him).

That's why I asked, bluntly, what practical or tangible system does this guy have that will lead me to the who I am, or the Truth.

Have you read "The Wellspring of Good" or anything of substance by or about him yet? Have you had the privilige of hearing one of his speeches? No. Then how can you expect to have been given anything "tangible" of him that would lead you to the truth? Understand there is so much illogic in your arguments (maybe you're one of those illogical scientists) it's hard to even argue with you.

You must understand that from what you've presented he just appears to be like any cult leader or egomaniac? If he was the real deal I'm sure I would have heard of him by now...

Jesus Christ. For one thing I just tried to explain how his teachings and activities had been greatly suppressed by the Bulgarian government, to the point were he almost weren't able to work, so how would you have "Heard of him by now at any rate?"

And what basis do you have to judge him as just "Any cult-leader or Ego-maniac"? No wonder it's so hard to teach people the truth, when they're so soon to judge, and don't seem to want to learn to truth. And how is rejecting someone with no real knowledge of them any better than accepting someone without enough knowledge of them?

I hate all the false Gurus and useless prophets, too, but that just makes me appreciate the true ones we have even more. Because we've also had some valuable Teachers. And I wanted to hold him forth as one as he's so little known. "The Wellspring of Good" now costs $337 on Amazon these days, and the free online verson has disappeared, so the repression now also extends past the Eastern European World:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-list...keywords=the+wellspring+of+good&condition=New (though they have some cheaper used versions)

That's why I represented it the way I did, as you can only search for random quotes. But believe me, I have read almost everything, and would say it's probably the single best I have see in newer times.

For so many reasons:

-A more conversational, or accessible tone, than the heavy religious/philosophical tomes, which leads to better understanding and moves you more emotionally.

- Like a say, a combination of a bit of everything. A bt of East, a bit of West, a bit of Modern/New Age Type Christianity - although he lived a hundred years ago. I think he just wanted to teach in a more accessible way.

- Don't know what you have read, but his inspirations were certainly the best - Egypt, Plato, Jesus Christ at his best and in a way that makes you understand him.

Anyway, the best would be to get hold of his books and those of his follower Omraam Mikhael Aivanhov who has has published countless books (none of them wrote for themselves, all their volumes were scripted). They also wouldn't take money for their works, but live on the charity of their followers.

So I read his books for a long time, and was impressed, but he kept mentioning his teacher Peter Deunov all the time, and I couldn't understand how anyone could be as good as that. But when I got hold of his book I got it...there was just a higher consciousness...a higher vibration of truth in it...as I experienced it. And this was what I wanted to share.

AgainI've been searching for those who know for some time. I can not afford to suspend my judgement and accept someone at face value.. surely must understand this? If I'm going to invest my time and energy I need some assurance that this is a worthwhile enterprise or system of seeking the Truth. I am always interested in those who know the Truth... but they are far and few between!

I can not afford to suspend my doubt. It is what protects me from all the phony's and charlatan's out there. And boy are there a lot of them!! You have to offer me something tangible.. otherwise I will simply cast this man and his system on the scrap heap along with the hundreds of others I've encountered.

Well, somehow, Jesus could afford to suspend his doubt if he felt it was worthy in case he might have something to learn from it. While you, on the other hand, have no basis on which to decide either way. Your attitude is very negative, for sure, and I don't think you're ready, or really deserve, to be exposed to something on this level yet.


"The Master shares deep insights into the inner realities of life, covering a vast array of subjects, including Paneurythmy, Communion with Nature, Music, The Law of Love, Cosmic Consciousness, The Colours, Joy, The New Epoch, etc."

"When I speak about the new man, I have in mind the people of the Sun who live with Joy. They are exuberant, generous, and overcome their difficulties easily. They are heroes, men with open hearts. They use everything wisely. They enjoy everything. In both suffering and pleasure, the new man is filled with an inner joy. He knows that both the bad and the good conditions are given in order for him to grow."

- Taken from the book.
 
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As for you idea of an "Absolute truth" - I'm aftraid it's not coming that easily. Only God has absolute thruth, but he does give us clues. First you have to separate the wheat from the chaff. You're like an iqnorant confronted with a huge barn of grain exclaiming "There's no way I'm going through all that" (not just the studying to find out wha's better, but the experience as well." A wise man who has come to separate the wheat from the chaff, will finally come to do that and more.

But now his attitute has changes as he knows something even greater and more enlightening is coming for him. Maybe he hires himself a new farmhand and tells him carefully along the same principle, while giving him some time to work things out for himself.

I think this was the original way of the learning of the world, or in simple, rural societies, anyway. People were allowed to get in touch with the actual reality of things and find common sense. How can you except this these days with a 1000 melody channels. Gives you more pleasre than trying to figure out the nature of creation too.
 
As for you idea of an "Absolute truth" - I'm aftraid it's not coming that easily. Only God has absolute thruth, but he does give us clues.

Hence why you have to become the Truth/become "God". That's Enlightenment.
 
Praise Jesus - I found it, so now you can all see for yourselves.

http://www.beinsadouno.org/old/e_pri_i.htm

At least it has been my favourite spiritual reading so far. I think among other things because there's so much hope and joy in it and the spirit of truth is very strong. Very uplifting and truly a beautiful book.
 
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