Supplements Pain patient on morphine looking for advice regarding SARMS.

[Psycho_Logic]

Hi,

Background: Been training literally my whole life from age 7 to 33. First i played (European) football a d trained 4 times a week with a game on weekends. Spent my all free time playing basketball, tennis, volleyball, and other sports. I remained very active even after stopping training football. At the age of 25 or so I started weight lifting. Done so for 8 years. Made myself a home gym (beench that could tilt, different bars and plates) and at year 30 I was benching 1,5 of my body mass 4-5 reps. But my body was failing me and at the age of 35 I was diagnosed with multiple conditions that were very painful and made me stop lifting. For more than 5 years I was chasing the true diagnosis and pain relief. In that time I lost lot of my muscles and gained lots of fat. I am prescribed opioids for pain and at the moment I am on 300mg of SR morphine. 12 months ago I realised that enough is enough and that have to lose ~20% of my body weight/fat. I have succeeded to lose 10% of my original body weight. Now I have to lose ~10% of my curent body weight without losing muscle.

Problem is that due to my conditions I can't rely on much cardio and I'm kind of stuck. I have been researching a bit and was intrigued with following:

1) 12 weeks of RAD 140 (10-20mg in pill form) then stop RAD
2) 12 weeks of GW501516 + MK-677- stop everything

I never used any performance enhancing drugs and I am in my fifties. My goal is loosing 10% of my body fat without loosing muscle. Even though I researched I am not a scientist and am not truly aware of the hormonal interplay and how much damage I could do to my body. I am not even sure are the pill form substances even any good. I don't want to inject anything. Also take notice that I can not do cardio and plese explain me if my plan has any sense.

Any advice is much appreciated.

 

[TheFunkeeJunkee]

Avoid SARM'S if you aren't going to be using Testosterone. SARM'S suppress the hypothalamic–pituitary–gonadal axis which will cause hypogonadism (low Testosterone) and there's an interolable chance function may not return, even after ceasing the SARM. If you are indeed a chronic pain patient, hypogonadism will almost certainly make your pain worse.

If recommend you get a blood test. You want LH, FSH, cortisol, estrodial and free+total Testosterone checked. If your Testosterone is below 10nmol/L or 300ng/dL I'd consider Testosterone.

There's really no way of getting around not using a needle. Testosterone isn't bioavailable when taken orally, and without Testosterone any anabolic-androgenic steroid (including SARM's) will cause serious endocrine dysfunction. You may lose weight and put on size, but you'll have erectile dysfunction, a non-existent libido and possibly severe mood issues.

If you do opt for Testosterone (which is all you should need) start @ 100mg of Testosterone Enanthate E4D while getting regular blood testing. Once you're happy with your progress, lower the dose to 50mg E4D.

If you have questions on anything specific, please ask.

 

[Psycho_Logic]

Thank you for this. I was considering only 12 weeks of RAD 140 (10-20mg in pill form) taken via sublingual route. As getting prescribed testosterone is almost imposible here (Southeast Europe, Balkans). As I'm legitimate pain patient prescribed 300mg of SR morphine for the pain, and am on opioids for last 7 years, plus am in my fifties - Testosterone boost would be of great help. I just want to get to ~15% (max 20%) body fat with strong mucular body. Being functional with strong bones is my goal not having large mucles. RAD 140 seemed the answer for getting testosterone script. I was thinkink like this: "I will take it for 8 weeks wait 2 weeks and get my first blodwork for testosterone done. Thantake it for a week and get second bloodwork done. It is sad that I am even considering this but this speaks more about backward thinking of the doctors here. I am on this much morphine cause they fucked up when I came with unbearable pain to them 10 years ago. They blew me off snd I ended up on opioid replacement therapy. So I know that my testosterone levels would have to be dramatically low for doctors around here to prescribe TRT. I am even more upset cause I know that I had above average test level when I was 30 and was in the gym...so I don't think I will get it prescribed. My life is a drama

 

[Serotonin101]

I think your idea of nuking your levels with a sarm to get on test is reasonable. There was another person in a similar position to you (name escapes me) also long term chronic pain patient on prescribed testosterone. It definitely will offset the side effects opioids have on the endogenous testosterone pathway such as muscle atrophy and bone loss due to low T among other things such as decreased libido, depressed mood and lower energy levels/motivation.

 

[TheFunkeeJunkee]

Thank you for this. I was considering only 12 weeks of RAD 140 (10-20mg in pill form) taken via sublingual route. As getting prescribed testosterone is almost imposible here (Southeast Europe, Balkans). As I'm legitimate pain patient prescribed 300mg of SR morphine for the pain, and am on opioids for last 7 years, plus am in my fifties - Testosterone boost would be of great help. I just want to get to ~15% (max 20%) body fat with strong mucular body. Being functional with strong bones is my goal not having large mucles. RAD 140 seemed the answer for getting testosterone script. I was thinkink like this: "I will take it for 8 weeks wait 2 weeks and get my first blodwork for testosterone done. Thantake it for a week and get second bloodwork done. It is sad that I am even considering this but this speaks more about backward thinking of the doctors here. I am on this much morphine cause they fucked up when I came with unbearable pain to them 10 years ago. They blew me off snd I ended up on opioid replacement therapy. So I know that my testosterone levels would have to be dramatically low for doctors around here to prescribe TRT. I am even more upset cause I know that I had above average test level when I was 30 and was in the gym...so I don't think I will get it prescribed. My life is a drama

If you've been on 300mg of SR Morphine for 7+ years, you'll already be hypogonadal. Opioids are very good at causing hypogonadism.

 

[Psycho_Logic]

If you've been on 300mg of SR Morphine for 7+ years, you'll already be hypogonadal. Opioids are very good at causing hypogonadism.

I know and I can feel it. But I am convinced that my base test level was in the top 10% before and I am scared that bloodwork will show that I am just bellow the cut off point and that I will be denied treatment. This is a shitty country with even shitier public health care aystem. I will go privately first and then based uppon findings make a decision for the future.

 

[Serotonin101]

I know and I can feel it. But I am convinced that my base test level was in the top 10% before and I am scared that bloodwork will show that I am just bellow the cut off point and that I will be denied treatment. This is a shitty country with even shitier public health care aystem. I will go privately first and then based uppon findings make a decision for the future.

This sounds like a good decision. Going privately will also prevent having anything going on your actual medical record I'd imagine. Here in the US we used to (may end up happening again) have issues with our medical records being used against us in terms of health insurance, but we still have issues with available data affecting our care if the provider chooses to allow that. I've been fortunate that any doctors I've needed to include in my health have kept anything pertaining to aas usage off my record, however I do know of individuals who've basically had to go the private TRT clinic route because the physicians they have in their area basically won't treat them because of known prior aas usage.

 

[TheFunkeeJunkee]

This sounds like a good decision. Going privately will also prevent having anything going on your actual medical record I'd imagine. Here in the US we used to (may end up happening again) have issues with our medical records being used against us in terms of health insurance, but we still have issues with available data affecting our care if the provider chooses to allow that. I've been fortunate that any doctors I've needed to include in my health have kept anything pertaining to aas usage off my record, however I do know of individuals who've basically had to go the private TRT clinic route because the physicians they have in their area basically won't treat them because of known prior aas usage.

Similar things happen in Australia. I had an exceedingly difficult time getting treated for secondary hypogonadism but eventually was prescribed a transdermal form (which isn't much better then nothing in my experience). We have a system in my state where any medication on a certain list you have prescribed or dispendsed to you is recorded and further prescriptions of any drug on that list require the prescriber to assess your prescription history before giving it to you. We also have a general record keeping system but it from my experience it isn't used by most doctors. It isn't so much of an issue in Australia where we have a single payer healthcare system but I sure know a lot of people who can't doctor shop any more!

Either way, the majority of blokes I know who use a TRT dose of Testosterone Enanthate just buy it on the internet like I do now.

 

[Coffeeshroom]

Avoid SARM'S if you aren't going to be using Testosterone. SARM'S suppress the hypothalamic–pituitary–gonadal axis which will cause hypogonadism (low Testosterone) and there's an interolable chance function may not return, even after ceasing the SARM. If you are indeed a chronic pain patient, hypogonadism will almost certainly make your pain worse.

If recommend you get a blood test. You want LH, FSH, cortisol, estrodial and free+total Testosterone checked. If your Testosterone is below 10nmol/L or 300ng/dL I'd consider Testosterone.

There's really no way of getting around not using a needle. Testosterone isn't bioavailable when taken orally, and without Testosterone any anabolic-androgenic steroid (including SARM's) will cause serious endocrine dysfunction. You may lose weight and put on size, but you'll have erectile dysfunction, a non-existent libido and possibly severe mood issues.

If you do opt for Testosterone (which is all you should need) start @ 100mg of Testosterone Enanthate E4D while getting regular blood testing. Once you're happy with your progress, lower the dose to 50mg E4D.

If you have questions on anything specific, please ask.

I'm on trt and had been the last decade and tried test cyp, enanthate and undecanoate and founded my sweet spot to be 100mg test cyp once a week. Nebido (test undecanoate) I founded not to last the 3 months it's suppose to and with bloods proved that by week 8-9 that my stable test blood levels started to drop and estrogen levels raising..

But the best way is to choose one of the available trt programs that they have your side and get bloods done regularly to see how it's effective it is and if it's working and also always test estrogen levels as some people aromatize test a lot more or faster then others and that comes with other issues to deal with.