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Oxytocin & MDMA -- The real deal.

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PsychedelicPeptide

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The following is a mixed trip report, but I would like to start a discussion on oxytocin (oxy.) and concurrent use of MDMA, Please read:

-- Disclaimer: This story was told to me by another person. I did not participate in said events. --

Recently a person was able to obtain a few milligrams of high purity oxy. They solubilized the material in a pH=7 phosphate-buffered saline solution and filtered it through a .2 micron filter. Two solutions were made one verified by UV absorbance to be .33 mg/mL the other .5 mg/mL. There were about 2 mLs of each solution.

The decision was made to dose a roll early in the night, followed by intranasal ingestion of molly throughout the night (~.3 g total used over 6-8 hours), and another roll hours after the first.

The decision was also made to spray the oxytocin intranasally (with a generic spray bottle) a few hours into the roll(s).

Upon the first spray one's eyes begin to get very big. Big as in: Holy sssshhhhiiiitttttt what is this stuff??!?!?!! The oxy. hits you instantly and seems to synergize with the MDMA better than anything they had ever experienced. The oxy. enhances the buzz, your mood, sexual appetite and openness. The two drugs complement each other very well. At worst they felt a bit less speedy and a bit more dopey. By the end of the night, almost all of the oxy. solutions were consumed, and the individuals were left feeling a little more tired than you would expect after taking that much MDMA. No major side effects were noticed. The remained of the oxy. was consumed the next day by one individual where it effectively "revived his roll" for a few hours of the afternoon.

-----

So that's what this person has to say about his first experience with oxy. and MDMA. There is a fair amount of confidence that only concurrent use with MDMA will result in the profound effects from the oxy., and that on its own it may be relatively useless. However those experiments have yet to take place. With MDMA however this stuff seems to be the shiznitobomb.

What I want to know is if anyone here has heard of similar experiences? I was searching the forum for oxy. experiences and didn't seem to have much luck at finding anything. However I have heard that it is growing in popularity amongst ravers, but I question whether a peptide like oxy. would ever be able to be mass-marketed to people without a fair amount of illegitimate vending of impure products or fake products all together, rendering some individuals views on improperly biased.

Please feel free to discuss oxy./MDMA in this thread. I would like to start a discussion on it, but thought the person's experience above was the best starting point for it.
 
Well, I never even knew there was a Oxytocin, so I just read a little bit about it. You seem to know what you're talking about, so can you elaborate on the effects of the drug?
 
Effects could be best described as a serious enhancement to the roll. There seems to be a transition from having a speedy roll to a slower roll, but it feels great. There seems to be little experience around though so I cannot say for sure...
 
I can't find the studies now, but there is some recent evidence that MDMA actually releases oxytocin (it has been known that MDMA binds to the oxytocin receptor with weak affinity).

I'll try to find that study, but it was BL user Dondante that mentioned it to me. So I'll PM him and let him know about this thread.
 
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Intranasal administration of a drug does not require passage through the BBB to get to the cerebrospinal fluid. Your BBB is not located anywhere near the nose.

The study you refer to is one done on mothers, looking for effects on lactation. It has nothing to do with its use as an agent to enhance the X experience. If you are going to look at oxy. references, I suggest looking in the direction of its effect in sexual situations. Here is something to get you started:

Psychoneuroendocrinology. 2008 Jun;33(5):591-600. Epub 2008 Mar 28.Click here to read Links
The acute effects of intranasal oxytocin administration on endocrine and sexual function in males.
Burri A, Heinrichs M, Schedlowski M, Kruger TH.

Department of Psychology, Clinical Psychology and Psychobiology, University of Zurich, Binzmuhlestrasse 14, 8050 Zurich, Switzerland.

The role of the neuropeptide oxytocin (OT) ranges from the modulation of neuroendocrine physiological effects to the establishment of complex social and bonding behaviours. Experimental studies in animals, as well as case reports in humans, suggest that OT affects different aspects of sexual behaviour and has predominantly facilitating properties for sexual appetence and performance. Using a previously established experimental paradigm of sexual arousal and masturbation-induced orgasm, this study investigated the acute effects of intranasal OT application (24I.U.) on endocrine parameters and measures of sexual appetence and function in healthy men (n=10). In a double-blind, placebo-controlled, balanced cross-over design, sexual arousal, and orgasm were induced by an erotic film and masturbation. In addition to the continuous recording of endocrine (OT, cortisol, prolactin, epinephrine, norepinephrine) and cardiovascular data (heart rate), parameters of appetitive, consummatory, and refractory sexual behaviour were assessed using the acute sexual experience scale (ASES). OT plasma levels were significantly elevated after intranasal OT throughout the whole experiment (>60 min). In addition, OT treatment induced significantly higher increases in epinephrine plasma levels during sexual activity without affecting cortisol levels, prolactin levels or heart rate. OT treatment did not alter appetitive, consummatory, and refractory sexual behaviour according to the ASES. However, when subjects were asked about their subjective perception of whether OT or placebo had been applied, eight out of 10 subjects in the OT group answered correctly, thus pointing to an altered perception of arousal. In conclusion, intranasally administered OT leads to a marked increase in OT plasma levels together with increased secretion of catecholamines when subjects are engaged in sexual activity in a laboratory setting. As the effects of OT on sexual behaviour were equivocal, future studies should examine possible facilitating effects further by including males, females, and couples in a field setting, taking into account that OT exerts the most prominent behavioural effects in pair bond formations.
 
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Interesting, thanks for sharing your experience! With that much MDMA involved however, I'm skeptical it wasn't just rolling-placebo. The power of suggestion while rolling is, well, powerful, as I'm sure everyone is aware.

In any case, oxytocin is an intriguing, mysterious chemical.
 
Yes it was a fair amount, but these are experienced users. The chance of a placebo effect has been highly thought about, but the re-administration of oxy. on the 2nd day and its subsequent ability to "revive the roll" is certainly a counterargument to that, and definitely did not seem like placebo.

There is were no "suggestions" or "persuasions" to feel one way or another involved in this event either. One particular individual is very informed and knows exactly what they were doing. They are very skeptical themselves, which is why I am searching for more information.
 
PsychedelicPeptide said:
Intranasal administration of a drug does not require passage through the BBB to get to the cerebrospinal fluid. Your BBB is not located anywhere near the nose.
Click to expand...

There is no studys to suggest that oxytocin can enter the spinal fluid via the blood stream and then into the brain. Therefore the only route is through the blood brain barrier which does not pass significant amounts. The study with the lactating mothers although has no relevance to the potentiation of xtc, instead suggests that not significant enough oxytocin enters the brain via nasal administration.


PsychedelicPeptide said:
OT plasma levels were significantly elevated after intranasal OT throughout the whole experiment (>60 min). In addition, OT treatment induced significantly higher increases in epinephrine plasma levels during sexual activity without affecting cortisol levels, prolactin levels or heart rate.
Click to expand...

This shows that the blood plasma levels increase which is of no surprise. But that is no evidence to support increase concentrations within the brain. The increase in epinephrine could be a direct effect of oxytocin on the adrenal glands or some other related mechanism outside the brain itself.
 
^ Yes, well for significant amounts to enter the spinal fluid directly(via nasal cavity) to have an effect on the brain is doubtable also. Why would they bother infusing it into animal spinal fluids if they could just spray a large amount up their nose, unless the nasal cavity of sheep has no access to spinal fluid?
 
Because there is obviously a large level of uncertainty about spraying a liquid up an animal's nose. Can you tell the animal to "sniff like crazy to get that shit up there?" No. Will they just sneeze it back out? Probably. These are scientific publications were are talking about here. A good scientist who respects their own work wouldn't be caught dead publishing work that relies upon an assumption that their animal didn't sneeze their compound back out for their conclusions to be valid.

To this extent, there is a much smaller degree of uncertainty about how much of the drug is getting to its destined location (in this case the CNS) if you take the compound and directly inject it via something like an ICV injection. These methods are much more accurate and hence preferred.

How do you think intranasal cocaine gets you high so fast? It doesn't take a lap through your bloodstream first...
 
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I edited this slightly from my original post this morning...

organicshroom said:
for significant amounts to enter the spinal fluid directly(via nasal cavity) to have an effect on the brain is doubtable also.
Click to expand...

Also on this point. Most peptides in your body become active at their receptors in nanogram per milliliter concentrations. The human brain has an estimated volume of 1-1.5 liters. Assuming that the drug must diffuse through the entire brain to become active, you would only need ONE microgram to achieve a 1 ng/mL concentration. Odds are you probably need a higher local oxytocin concentration for it to work maximally (maybe 10-20 ng/mL? probably not much more though), but it would not need to diffuse through the entire brain.

In in vitro assays oxytocin has an EC50 of 1-2 nM at its receptor. A 1-2 nM solution of oxytocin is equal to 1-2 ng/mL (oxytocin MW: 1006), so we should be activating our oxytocin receptors just fine if things are right at this range.

But if we are administering a solution that is hundreds of micrograms per milliliter, expect 1% transport efficiency into the brain, and have used 100 microliters of the solution in 2 sprays for each nose, we are already approaching the one microgram target. I use this as a loose example to show you how little compound is truly needed to have effect in the CNS. I'm not saying the nose is the perfect route of administration, or that oxytocin has the best absorption profile of any peptide known to man, but I am saying that an intranasal spray with a high enough concentration will provide you with enough drug in your brain to feel its efffcts.
 
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Some of us spend much time learning information in academic contexts/settings and then go home and apply it to things like recreational drug use. :D
 
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