Opioids oxycontin w/d with xanax & Kratom

[skipjames]

Hello guys,
basically I am writing from Brazil, I have been using everyday oxy up to 200-220 mg per day (parachuted and insufflated) 4 3 months. I decided to stop cos the only effect was....no high, no libido , using just to stay alive. I ´,m a at day 3 and..so far, so good, it has been the best w/d ever ( I have been addicted to oxy and smack before) I´m not doing this cold turkey but with the help of :
Kratom ( 5-6 grams) , xanax ( 2mg minimum, ) x day
plus the occasional bump of coke courtesy of my gf.

My questions:
1)is Kratom just delaying the inevitable, meaning that when I´ll finish the kratom I´ll have two w/d? or will the w-d be mild?should I taper the kratom as well?
2) is this 'abstinence' period ' meaning that when- if I´ll do oxy again, 40- 60 mgs will do the trick? or is upping my opiate tolerance ?
3) Xanax : it seriously scares me. 4 days ago one mg was enough to send me to sleep, now 4 mg makes me feel...ok , not even sleepy. Should I taper? How long does it take to become addicted to Xanax? I´ve heard horrible stories and I would avoid xanax w-d as much as possible.

Thanks for reading and for the great work you are doing here!
Cheers

 

[Jabberwocky]

Kratom withdrawal can be quite bad itself when taking high doses, but 6g isn't that much at all. Use it to get through the oxy withdrawal and then stop, it shouldn't be too bad.

Kratom will contribute some tolerance to oxy, but less than oxy itself. Your tolerance is still going down.

I'd start tapering the xanax. Benzo withdrawal can be even worse than opioid withdrawal. I certainly am more afraid of it. I would rather withdrawal from oxy two times than withdrawal from high dose benzos again. Its like opioid withdrawal with added 24/7 panic attacks, hallucinations and potential seizures.

4mg is a fairly high dose.

It takes about 4 weeks for benzo dependence to begin.

 

[plumbus-nine]

Hello, welcome to Bluelight!

In Brazil I guess are like here many medicines available without prescription, not opioids obviously but pregabalin and memantine, both help a great deal with opioid withdrawal. I was on 600mg/d morphine, tapered down to 120 with pregabalin and then memantine megadoses - this modulates the opioid receptors through some complicated mechanism but it means you can avoid most of the withdrawal. I always relapsed at day 3 - days 1 & 2 were lethargic but on 3 rose restlessness into uncomfortable strength. With the mentioned medicines you feel the opioid effects going but no dysphoria or restlessness. If you still have the shits, or nothing else available, use loperamide. This is an opioid which doesn't hit the brain, so that can recover while the peripheral nervous system is still opiated.

1) Partially. Kratom is only a partial agonist at mu, not very strong and contains even mu antagonists! I don't know yet whether you will get withdrawal from kratom when using it to get off opioids, but it will at least alleviate the worst. Animals didn't self administer kratom, which is seen as an evidence that it doesn't make dependent. The 7-HO derivate of the main alkaloid mitragynine, which both is a metabolize product as well as the leaves contain some (little) of it. 7-HO is a stronger mu agonist and animals get addicted to it. So it's a mix. Also 5-6g (when daily, not multiple times per day) are a standard dosage and not specially high. I'm using 4-5 times this amount. This will have consequences.

2) Tolerance to drugs goes slowly down with abstinence but often you get an one-shot thing, in that once a low dose of the previous drug of choice will have strong effects but tolerance rises very quickly to previous levels, this is due to an addiction marker called DeltaFosB and so far we don't have chems which manipulate that.

3) I was on lorazepam for 3 months, then stopped cold and I got panic attacks and inner tension. A doctor told me that as long as one is more days off than on a benzodiazepine. Usage during withdrawal will mostly not lead to another addiction as long as you are serious about using it only when necessary. Then also a few days in a row are ok, when it's only for short time. The mentioned medicines happen to also help with benzo withdrawal but you don't want to get addicted to them, you can't skip w/d like with opioids.

 

[skipjames]

Hello, welcome to Bluelight!

In Brazil I guess are like here many medicines available without prescription, not opioids obviously but pregabalin and memantine, both help a great deal with opioid withdrawal. I was on 600mg/d morphine, tapered down to 120 with pregabalin and then memantine megadoses - this modulates the opioid receptors through some complicated mechanism but it means you can avoid most of the withdrawal. I always relapsed at day 3 - days 1 & 2 were lethargic but on 3 rose restlessness into uncomfortable strength. With the mentioned medicines you feel the opioid effects going but no dysphoria or restlessness. If you still have the shits, or nothing else available, use loperamide. This is an opioid which doesn't hit the brain, so that can recover while the peripheral nervous system is still opiated.

1) Partially. Kratom is only a partial agonist at mu, not very strong and contains even mu antagonists! I don't know yet whether you will get withdrawal from kratom when using it to get off opioids, but it will at least alleviate the worst. Animals didn't self administer kratom, which is seen as an evidence that it doesn't make dependent. The 7-HO derivate of the main alkaloid mitragynine, which both is a metabolize product as well as the leaves contain some (little) of it. 7-HO is a stronger mu agonist and animals get addicted to it. So it's a mix. Also 5-6g (when daily, not multiple times per day) are a standard dosage and not specially high. I'm using 4-5 times this amount. This will have consequences.

2) Tolerance to drugs goes slowly down with abstinence but often you get an one-shot thing, in that once a low dose of the previous drug of choice will have strong effects but tolerance rises very quickly to previous levels, this is due to an addiction marker called DeltaFosB and so far we don't have chems which manipulate that.

3) I was on lorazepam for 3 months, then stopped cold and I got panic attacks and inner tension. A doctor told me that as long as one is more days off than on a benzodiazepine. Usage during withdrawal will mostly not lead to another addiction as long as you are serious about using it only when necessary. Then also a few days in a row are ok, when it's only for short time. The mentioned medicines happen to also help with benzo withdrawal but you don't want to get addicted to them, you can't skip w/d like with opioids.

Hi, thanks a lot ! if by ' the shits' you mean diarrhea, so far so good, kratom seems to help pretty fine with that , and the other info about meds available in Brazil are pretty useful too! cheers!

 

[skipjames]

Kratom withdrawal can be quite bad itself when taking high doses, but 6g isn't that much at all. Use it to get through the oxy withdrawal and then stop, it shouldn't be too bad.

Kratom will contribute some tolerance to oxy, but less than oxy itself. Your tolerance is still going down.

I'd start tapering the xanax. Benzo withdrawal can be even worse than opioid withdrawal. I certainly am more afraid of it. I would rather withdrawal from oxy two times than withdrawal from high dose benzos again. Its like opioid withdrawal with added 24/7 panic attacks, hallucinations and potential seizures.

4mg is a fairly high dose.

It takes about 4 weeks for benzo dependence to begin.

cheers man. I am at day 3 of the ''process'', when should I stop taking kratom and tapering the Xanax you reckon? I still wake up feeling pretty crappy before taking the kratom for instance (dunno whether is psychological or physical or both) tPlus I don t like kratom ' as a drug ' at all, but I´kk need something for focus- concentration hen this will be over . ty!

 

[Jabberwocky]

cheers man. I am at day 3 of the ''process'', when should I stop taking kratom and tapering the Xanax you reckon? I still wake up feeling pretty crappy before taking the kratom for instance (dunno whether is psychological or physical or both) tPlus I don t like kratom ' as a drug ' at all, but I´kk need something for focus- concentration hen this will be over . ty!

I would stop using the kratom after 7-10 days or so, it's really up to you and whenever you start feeling better.

How long have you been taking the xanax?

 

[skipjames]

3 days ago, when I started the detox 2 mg first day, 3 mg the next, 2 mg so far today but I´m sure I´ll do more for sleeping tonight (maybe 1 mg) . I don t take them ' at once if it can be of any help but to help me thru the day , so to say

 

[Jabberwocky]

My general rule with benzos is never to take them daily for more than 14 days, thats the point at which dependence forms and they can be very hard to stop.

I'd take only as much as you need, preferably only at night to get some sleep.

Benzo addiction is awful

 

[skipjames]

My general rule with benzos is never to take them daily for more than 14 days, thats the point at which dependence forms and they can be very hard to stop.

I'd take only as much as you need, preferably only at night to get some sleep.

Benzo addiction is awful

thanks a lot man, hopefully it will take even less than 14 days! best!

 

[skipjames]

Hello, welcome to Bluelight!

In Brazil I guess are like here many medicines available without prescription, not opioids obviously but pregabalin and memantine, both help a great deal with opioid withdrawal. I was on 600mg/d morphine, tapered down to 120 with pregabalin and then memantine megadoses - this modulates the opioid receptors through some complicated mechanism but it means you can avoid most of the withdrawal. I always relapsed at day 3 - days 1 & 2 were lethargic but on 3 rose restlessness into uncomfortable strength. With the mentioned medicines you feel the opioid effects going but no dysphoria or restlessness. If you still have the shits, or nothing else available, use loperamide. This is an opioid which doesn't hit the brain, so that can recover while the peripheral nervous system is still opiated.

1) Partially. Kratom is only a partial agonist at mu, not very strong and contains even mu antagonists! I don't know yet whether you will get withdrawal from kratom when using it to get off opioids, but it will at least alleviate the worst. Animals didn't self administer kratom, which is seen as an evidence that it doesn't make dependent. The 7-HO derivate of the main alkaloid mitragynine, which both is a metabolize product as well as the leaves contain some (little) of it. 7-HO is a stronger mu agonist and animals get addicted to it. So it's a mix. Also 5-6g (when daily, not multiple times per day) are a standard dosage and not specially high. I'm using 4-5 times this amount. This will have consequences.

2) Tolerance to drugs goes slowly down with abstinence but often you get an one-shot thing, in that once a low dose of the previous drug of choice will have strong effects but tolerance rises very quickly to previous levels, this is due to an addiction marker called DeltaFosB and so far we don't have chems which manipulate that.

3) I was on lorazepam for 3 months, then stopped cold and I got panic attacks and inner tension. A doctor told me that as long as one is more days off than on a benzodiazepine. Usage during withdrawal will mostly not lead to another addiction as long as you are serious about using it only when necessary. Then also a few days in a row are ok, when it's only for short time. The mentioned medicines happen to also help with benzo withdrawal but you don't want to get addicted to them, you can't skip w/d like with opioids.

btw I´ve checked, for all the meds you mention u need a prescription down here . Not a big deal ( I need a prescription for oxy as well, still ) but....

 

[plumbus-nine]

btw I´ve checked, for all the meds you mention u need a prescription down here . Not a big deal ( I need a prescription for oxy as well, still ) but....

Yeah, that's a bit unfortunate as I know how stubborn some doctors tend to be.. Idk, I had luck and convinced a doc by showing him loads of papers from PubMed (use sci-hub for the full texts), signalling that I did my homework and know a bit about what I'm intending with the med I'm asking for (was about memantine) but you need some luck of course.
Or if your country allows personal import of medicines then you might search for a cheap online pharmacy. These which spam tend to be fake, such ones which offer opioids or drugs like meth are 99.95% scam. You want one which is well sorted (no typos, the meds in correct category etc) and not too expensive - the higher the prices, the more potential interest in scamming. Making a fake site for $8 products isn't economic I guess. I used to order from Russia before I got my script. Now here in MX all meds besides benzos, opioids and antibiotics are OTC and they ask nothing even when you buy multiple packs or meds which shouldn't be used together.. either they don't know or don't care. Wanted to make an online pharm myself but seems like that it's not possible to legally and commercially export medicines, weird for a country which might be the world's biggest drug corridor...

 

[skipjames]

Import stuff here is a nightmare, I could have more luck ''convincing ' some down here. But kratom + xanax is doing . And yeah, I think in this Brazil and MExico are quite the same, legally you can t do anything, but we have a wide option of '' differently legally ' options anyway I think I ´ll stick to kratom and Xanax for now and will update you guys! thanks again!

 

[tarman]

I rarely do benzos, and when I did Xanax for a week straight, I definitely had some withdrawal. It was mostly mental and I would say mild but it was very unpleasant.

 

[skipjames]

I rarely do benzos, and when I did Xanax for a week straight, I definitely had some withdrawal. It was mostly mental and I would say mild but it was very unpleasant.

They are useful to have around during the first days of opiate w/d ( or when coming down from coke, which is not really my thing but living in Brazil it kinda happens) but yeah, generally speaking the less u take them the better, also I have never found any recreational value in them which is a plus. Today ( 4th day of oxy detox) I´m feeling pretty well so I´ll try to avoid them completely . Cheers!