Mental Health Oxycontin and Opiates used as anti-depressants

[psychedelicfrog]

Hi, I would like to apologize in advance if this topic has already been covered or if I'm posting it in the wrong area This subject seems to be dismissed by all health 'professionals' I've seen for my mental health and for my chronic pain. So i fought it was best to ask the people who maybe in a similar situation as myself. I have been using Oxycontin as a sort of anti-depressant as it help me get motivated and elevated my mood as well as numb my chronic pain. Having asked other people taking Oxycontin I found they experience very sedative effects, whereas I have always experienced productivity and an almost Amphetamine like effect. I have found a video on Youtube than may possibly explain why this is (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb9GNwhWOOk). I was thinking maybe my brain does not produce enough natural opiates and the use of Oxycontin is producing the right amount, would any of you know if this is scientifically possible? I would like to add I have a script for Oxycontin and have been taking it for 4 months and have never increased my dose above 20mg daily.

 

[roundnround]

Hi, I would like to apologize in advance if this topic has already been covered or if I'm posting it in the wrong area This subject seems to be dismissed by all health 'professionals' I've seen for my mental health and for my chronic pain. So i fought it was best to ask the people who maybe in a similar situation as myself. I have been using Oxycontin as a sort of anti-depressant as it help me get motivated and elevated my mood as well as numb my chronic pain. Having asked other people taking Oxycontin I found they experience very sedative effects, whereas I have always experienced productivity and an almost Amphetamine like effect. I have found a video on Youtube than may possibly explain why this is (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb9GNwhWOOk). I was thinking maybe my brain does not produce enough natural opiates and the use of Oxycontin is producing the right amount, would any of you know if this is scientifically possible? I would like to add I have a script for Oxycontin and have been taking it for 4 months and have never increased my dose above 20mg daily.

I noticed that with oxycodone as in my instant release but found that my oxycontin which is a lower dose than my instant release does the opposite and makes me lazy

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Hi, I would like to apologize in advance if this topic has already been covered or if I'm posting it in the wrong area This subject seems to be dismissed by all health 'professionals' I've seen for my mental health and for my chronic pain. So i fought it was best to ask the people who maybe in a similar situation as myself. I have been using Oxycontin as a sort of anti-depressant as it help me get motivated and elevated my mood as well as numb my chronic pain. Having asked other people taking Oxycontin I found they experience very sedative effects, whereas I have always experienced productivity and an almost Amphetamine like effect. I have found a video on Youtube than may possibly explain why this is (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mb9GNwhWOOk). I was thinking maybe my brain does not produce enough natural opiates and the use of Oxycontin is producing the right amount, would any of you know if this is scientifically possible? I would like to add I have a script for Oxycontin and have been taking it for 4 months and have never increased my dose above 20mg daily.

Most people who use illicit opioids are self-medicating for emotional and or physical pain (whether consciously or not). As someone who has done that myself, I really do NOT think it's a good idea. It's very easy to rationalize a harmful addiction as "medicine".

The motivational effect you report is very common.

Oxycodone does not make you produce the "right amount" of natural opiates, it does the opposite. It decreases your body's natural opiate production because the oxycodone is binding to your opiate receptors and so your brain thinks you don't need natural opiates (endorphins). Furthermore, it changes your opiate receptors, causing them to become less sensitive and fewer in number. Sooner or later you become dependent on the oxycodone in order to just feel normal. If you take it often enough and then stop you will get horrible withdrawal symptoms and your pre-existing pain and depression will be much worse. You may even find your depression and pain to eventually worsen while still taking the oxycodone if you take it long enough and don't keep increasing your dose. Opiates/opioids increase one's sensitivity to pain.

If you think you might have low endorphins, there are much healthier ways to compensate and increase endorphin production. Opioid drugs don't solve anything, they just temporarily mask pain and depression in the short-term.

May I ask why you are prescribed the oxy, how long you have been taking it, and if your Dr plans to have you take it long-term?

 

[psychedelicfrog]

I believe this also, having spoke to users who use Opiods legally and illegally. I would like to reply by saying that the 'Anti-depressant' like feeling that I get from Oxycontin which I must add found very effective in elevated my mood and treating my anxiety disorder is merely a pleasant side effect of Oxycontin that greatly reduces my pain. I have very little options where my pain is concerned as the severity of the pain is unbearable. I would never or suggest taking it long-term, especially as an 'Anti-depressant' as the effects you have described are scary to say the least. Especially the effect it has on your endorphin levels, it can potentially be very psychical/ psychological damaging. The effect it is having on me has greatly improved my life, and made me feel myself again having been battling with depression for a long time. Its good to note that I'm yet to receive any counseling or Psychologists appointments because I have only recently been allocated a key worker from my local NHS Mental Health team. Having spoke with other users, I have realized this also. My mother Is also prescribed Oxycontin for Osteoarthritis, and all her side effects are opposite to mine. Could you suggest any I could safely and healthier way(s)to increase endorphin production? I also forgot to mention that I am also prescribed 30mg Mirtazapine for Insomnia and depression, I'm now on my 5th week of taking them nightly and the are yet to take effect. Could this because of Oxycontin? Yes you may, I have been prescribed Oxycontin for severe pain due to arthritis in my right hip. This is my 4th month taking Oxycontin, and my doctor plans to keep me on it for a further 2-3 months alongside Physio and Hydro therapy, then start reducing my dose and replacing with DF-118 or Codeine. This is of course if long term Physio/Hydro therapy can effectively reduced my pain enough to warrant a reduction of Oxycontin or weaker Opioids.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

Do you mean you notice nothing from the mirtazepine at all? It should help with insomnia pretty quickly, and even for depression it normally works quicker than some other more common antidepressants, I read that most people should see a difference in 1-2 weeks. If you've been taking it for 4 weeks and don't see any improvement whatsoever, I'd talk to your doctor about it. It doesn't work for everyone. Now, the question is how would you be able to even tell if the mitrazapine is doing anything since you are taking oxycodone and you find the oxy is helpful for your depression. That's a tough one. Oxy can also exacerbate insomnia in some people, since as you mentioned, it can be stimulating.

As for ways to increase endorphins:

Lifestyle factors:
- Exercise. I know when you're in pain it can be very difficult, but try to at least do some gentle exercise every day. It's really important.
- Meditation, yoga or deep breathing exercises.
- Sunlight and ultraviolet light (ie tanning bed).
- Listening to music that makes you happy.
- Acupuncture.
- Eating lots of protein.
- Get a good sleep; practice sleep hygiene.
- Hydrotherapy.
- Laughter.
- Diet changes.

Substances: (please consult a practitioner before trying)
- Certain substances (such as D-Phenylalaline [*not the same as L-Phenylalanine]) have been found in studies to slow the breakdown of endorphins, however I don't personally know of anyone who has used it or if inhibiting the enzymes that break down endorphins is a good thing in the long-term or not. I'm going to try to do more research on it because I'm interested.
- Lose Dose Naltrexone. Naltrexone is an opioid antagonist (blocker) which can increase endorphin production and numbers of opiate receptors. It is taken in low doses for this purpose, so that it doesn't block the opiate receptors too much. You wouldn't want to take it while taking opioid agonists like oxycodone though, naltrexone can only be taken in extremely tiny doses with an opioid agonist. I posted a bunch of info about it on my blog if you're interested. It's not something all doctors know about and it has to be compounded specially at a compounding pharmacy.

 

[mrflowers00]

using oxy as an anti depressant is more than likely to result in an addiction

 

[a dream]

I think buprenorphine has been studied for use as an antidepressant. (Wikipedia link). I could be wrong but I think I've read reports of buprenorphine users (ex-addicts) who said they liked it for the antidepressant effects. Not a regular opioid user so I don't really know much about this stuff.

 

[ad lib]

Yeah, I personally feel that if doctors were to start prescribing oxycontin to treat depression, the risks would far outweigh the benefits, unfortunately.

As for ways to increase endorphins:

- Exercise. I know when you're in pain it can be very difficult, but try to at least do some gentle exercise every day. It's really important.
- Meditation, yoga or deep breathing exercises.
- Sunlight and ultraviolet light (ie tanning bed).
- Listening to music that makes you happy.
- Acupuncture.
- Eating lots of protein.
- Get a good sleep; practice sleep hygiene.
- Hydrotherapy.
- Laughter.
- Diet changes.

^^ I like these suggestions In my (probably unpopular) opinion, the more natural we are about treating depression, the better. I'd also like to include the suggestion of therapy. Treating the root cause is more beneficial than treating the symptoms, IMHO.

 

[Swimmingdancer]

^^ I like these suggestions In my (probably unpopular) opinion, the more natural we are about treating depression, the better. I'd also like to include the suggestion of therapy. Treating the root cause is more beneficial than treating the symptoms, IMHO.

Therapy of course is an excellent idea, the only reason I didn't include it was because I was just listing things that had been shown to raise endorphin levels, and I haven't seen any evidence that psychotherapy does that (but I'm not saying it can't either, just haven't seen any studies etc). Changing one's thinking can be very beneficial.

 

[PJ555]

I have been battling with depression for years now and finally about a year ago decided to get help for it. I was self medicating with alcohol with out even realizing it. I was young in my early 20's and thought going out 5 to 6 nights a week and getting blitzed was what everyone my age was doing. My brother for years since my dad died 2001 has been trying to get me to go to therapy. I started just under a year ago once a week. I am still dealing with the depression but I can tell you from personal experience that talking to a proffesional is something I wish I did a long time ago. Some sessions are rough and others are not but either way when I leave that office I always feel better. It also teaches you the skills to live dependent from medication althought sometimes its necessary (I take venlafaxine, which doesnt seem to work for me). But all these previous post are great ideas I thought I would chime in with the therapy one just because I have personal experience. But if your going to see someone you have to find someone that you actually like and get a long with plus I have found being completly honest is the best route. If your going to hide stuff from them then they can't help you to your full potential. Good luck, I hope this post helps!

 

[Lightning-Nl]

I remember a little while ago - I was feeling the onset of mania so I took ten Tylenol 3's. In retrospect - this was really stupid because of all the Acetaminophen that's in those pills which could of caused pretty bad liver damage.

Anyways, within 15 minuets of taking those pills (I believe they contain 30MG's of Codeine each) my mania was gone and I actually felt "normal". I would say opiates have an extremely potent anti-depressant & anxiolytic effect. They stop depression and anxiety extremely well (if you don't have a tolerance to opiates)

However, with that being said, I would like to point out that for pure anti-depression - I wouldn't say opiates are as effective as Amphetamines (probably any stimulant really). Amphetamines are absolutely amazing at stopping depression and even with a tolerance still give you a pretty powerful anti-depressant effect. However, they can cause pretty bad anxiety.

 

[a dream]

However, with that being said, I would like to point out that for pure anti-depression - I wouldn't say opiates are as effective as Amphetamines (probably any stimulant really). Amphetamines are absolutely amazing at stopping depression and even with a tolerance still give you a pretty powerful anti-depressant effect. However, they can cause pretty bad anxiety.

I think the efficacy of stimulants will vary depending on the cause of depression.

The antidepressant Wellbutrin is basically a stimulant; it's a NDRI. It feels like a low dose of amphetamine to me, all the time (well, maybe not so much after having taken it for a few months).

For me amphetamines (Adderall at prescribed dosage) only seem to improve my mood initially; after a few days the effect is gone. But the increased motivation and productivity stick around, and that can certainly help with mood.

Given the option I'd pick an opioid over a stimulant for an antidepressant, if not for tolerance and addiction issues.

 

[FnX]

Personally I get sad and depressed if I take oxycodone. Not an anti-depressant for me at all. I won't deny though that it can alleviate the symptoms of depression in some temporarily, especially if the depression is stemming from physical pain, but it's not a fix, just something to mask the symptoms and if you don't fix the underlying cause you will most likely be left with opiate dependency on top of your depression.

I also believe kappa-opioid antagonists could make good anti-depressants: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynorphin#Stress_and_depression

The problem is our definition of 'depression' is way too generic and broad. There are so many things in your brain that can go wrong that would result in what universally call 'depression' (although we do acknowledge everyone has an unique experience). I don't think there can ever be one fix-it-all drug for 'depression'. Psychiatry just doesn't know yet, it's a rather new science and even the diagnostic process is hit and miss guesstimation if you ask me. Then we have all the stigmas associated to drugs in general which hinders the process of developing effective drugs. If an anti-depressant could cause euphoria as a side-effect when abused, it probably wouldn't worth the risk to pursue trials with it. It might not get sales approval in parts of the world and doctors might be very reluctant prescribing such a drug over conventional anti-depressants meaning it wouldn't make as much money as something that doesn't cause proper euphoria when abused. I find it funny because I believe most depressed people would actually benefit from a little euphoria, I would consider it a therapeutic effect of the drug instead of a 'bad' side-effect. As long as it's attacking the underlying cause not just masking the symptoms of course.

 

[endlessnameless]

I'd like to add - I just recently started on a methadone program and even in the beginning at the lower doses such as 30mls it was working absolute wonders for my depression. I wonder - has there ever been clinical trials on the effects of low dose Methadone on depression? I think if any low dose opioid or opiate is to be issued as an anti-depressant, Methadone should be it. I'm not saying it would be ideal, but I am saying the likes Oxy's wouldnt be.

Of course those of us who've been diagnosed with any of the various depressive illnesses out there would feel fantastic after an opiate, but in the long term its only going to make matters much, much worse for you. If you think you've had a chemical imbalance thats been the cause of your depression, just wait until you get yourself addicted to an opiate for any extended period of time. Then you really will know the true meaning of suicidal ideaion if you havent before.

One thing I will say - just something that crept up in conversation recently with the nurse who was assessing me for the methadone program - even during my peak periods of being strung out on heroin, the incidental depression was *fucking nothing* compared to the deeply bleak, black depression that ushered me towards opiates as an escape to begin with.

If you're looking for a cure, you wont find it in opiates or opioids; merely a mask for your symptoms which, granted, has its benefits in the sense that it can enable one to live a more productive life than the contrary where one hadn't masked the symptoms - but ultimately your problem still remains. Its no solution I'm afraid...believe me, I wish it was. Twelve miserable fucking years the affliction of major depression has impressed upon my life. I was only 14 when it became an actual disorder and at 26 and 10+ legal medications (and many other illegal narcotics) later, it seems low dose methadone has been the only thing that has ever put the slightest dint in my symptoms. I'm a little behind some of my peers, but now it really feels like I can get back to living my life again...

 

[Lightning-Nl]

The antidepressant Wellbutrin is basically a stimulant; it's a NDRI. It feels like a low dose of amphetamine to me, all the time (well, maybe not so much after having taken it for a few months).

I am very framilar with Wellbutrin. I have actually argued with Phsyciatrists before about whether or not Wellbutrin is a stimulant. My argument is Bupropions MOA is IDENTICAL to Methylphenidate. Even though Methylphenidate is approximently 16 times more potent (according to Wikipedia) than Bupropion - I always argue that if you consider Methylphenidate a stimulant, it would be inappropriate of you to NOT consider Bupropion a stimulant since they both do THE EXACT SAME THING, THE EXACT SAME FUCKING WAY!!!!

Anyways - Bupropion never worked for me. It always just gave me head aches.

Given the option I'd pick an opioid over a stimulant for an antidepressant, if not for tolerance and addiction issues.

Funny. I guess it all depends on the person really lol. I personally would pick a stimulant over an opiate for pure anti-depression.

For anxiety plus depression - I would stick with an opiate and for pure anxiety - I'd go with a benzo.

 

[endlessnameless]

I was on Wellbutrin for a number of months a few years ago. It was described to me as "one of the more stimulating anti-depressants on the market". As with every other anti-depressant given to me, I noticed no affects, either positive or negative.

I'd choose an Opiate over a Stimulant for depression any day. The decision tends to be subjective because some peoples depression is born out of high anxiety (much like mine is these days). However I find 20-30mgs of Diazepam sufficient in abating my anxiety, incidentally ridding me of my depression - thus benzos (specifically Diazepam) are enough to ease my depression.

Having said that, I'm currently taking 50mls of methadone on a daily basis which seems to be easing my anxiety/depression so its rare that I find the need to have to take a benzo. I'll occasionally smoke half a joint with a glass or two of wine when insomnia strikes, but other than that I dont bother with drugs these days. I'm focusing on getting a job and then going back to college next year.

 

[Pagey]

using oxy as an anti depressant is more than likely to result in an addiction

That basically sums it up.
I didn't go through all the answers and I'm sure everyone has said this already but it would definitely result in more harm than good. A very large proportion (surely most) of people who are addicted to opiates have gotten to that point because they decided to self-medicate. Using heroin to treat my depression is definitely how I ended up unable to say no.
I don't think any drugs, especially those as powerful as oxys, should be used if you're not in a stable state of mind - and I say that without abiding by that rule at all, but as far as I've seen it rarely ends well if you go down that road. Not to mention that you'll find yourself even more depressed and lacking that artificial happiness when you're not on them. Much better to try and treat your depression through natural routes - exercise, socialising that kinda thing.

 

[ad lib]

^ Nicely put Pagey