Opioids ORAL FENTANYL PATCH (MOUTH)

[xyz69]

Hi everyone,
I wanted to ask those who know about pharmacology, or anyone who has fairly reliable data on fentanyl patches used in the mouth (since there are no studies as the patch is designed to be used on the skin).
1. Does the dose contained in the patch, if kept in the mouth for a sufficient time between the cheek and the tooth (let's say 3 or 4 hours), release all the fentanyl contained in the patch?
2. Having to do the hair test as they are being treated at a center that delivers methadone, can they understand that the patch is not used correctly, on the skin? (And here we go back to point 1; how much of it would be absorbed by the oral mucosa? On the skin 75 mcg/h in 3 days delivers 5.4 mg. of fent, but the patch contains 12.6 mg. practically more than double!

My Considerations:
One 75 mg/h Durogesic patch contains 12.6 mg fentanyl base.
Dividing it (example) into 4 parts should release 3.15 mg. of fent.
But from my experience I notice that the first hour/ two hours are the ones that release the most of the drug.
So I wonder: is the entire fent released in the patch? Or is there still a kind of "block", which prevents him from dispensing it entirely?
Having previously used PecFent nasal spray 800 mcg (fentanyl citrate), which has a bioavailability of about 80-90%, the effects were obviously faster, but also different when compared to 1/4 patch (3.15 mg.): greater euphoria, less sedative effect.
If anyone has the knowledge to answer me, or even his experiences (only pharmaceutical fent, not those time bombs they sell on the street), I thank him sincerely, so that he can also adjust me for a gradual decrease in doses.
Hi and thank you

PS. I hope you understand the message, and that I did not make too many mistakes, as my English is not good and I used a bot for translations.

 

[negrogesic]

Testing hair cannot distinguish how the fentanyl patch was used.

I only have experience with the old type of fentanyl patch (which was a patch that contained a gel that could be easily removed). You could easily removed the gel to eat, smoke or inject (i did the later).

My guess is that you cut the patch into small segments (appropriate for your tolerance), you could stick it onto the inside of your cheek for greater effect. Then, eventually chew the patch thoroughly. I used to do this with matrix type methylphenidate patches (called Daytrana, which like modern fentanyl patch, use a similar matrix type format), and it worked well. Make sure you dose appropriate to you tolerance because you are correct, the actual content of fentanyl exceeds the expected amount delivered via transdermal administration (i.e., 75mcg × 72 hours), so be careful.

 

[Bent on fent]

Add a little alcohol for a faster and stronger effect, this worked for teva duragesic patches,unsure about current ones..

 

[xyz69]

Testing hair cannot distinguish how the fentanyl patch was used.

I only have experience with the old type of fentanyl patch (which was a patch that contained a gel that could be easily removed). You could easily removed the gel to eat, smoke or inject (i did the later).

My guess is that you cut the patch into small segments (appropriate for your tolerance), you could stick it onto the inside of your cheek for greater effect. Then, eventually chew the patch thoroughly. I used to do this with matrix type methylphenidate patches (called Daytrana, which like modern fentanyl patch, use a similar matrix type format), and it worked well. Make sure you dose appropriate to you tolerance because you are correct, the actual content of fentanyl exceeds the expected amount delivered via transdermal administration (i.e., 75mcg × 72 hours), so be careful.

Yes. Cut the patch into smaller pieces. The 75 mcg/h patch I divide into three and of those three pieces I make pieces to pull the day without going into abstinence. I keep the bigger piece for the night.
The 75 patch lasts, let's say, three days. But before, much less was enough. From 50 then I went to 75
But it's getting harder and harder.
In theory I should be covered up a bit by my meager 10 mg of methadone, but they do absolutely nothing to me.
To tell you, a couple of years ago I started with nasal spray, 800 mcg a day and it was enough for me. Today over 4 mg. a day and I already don't feel them anymore (but I don't know how much I'm really taking).
Tolerance has really gone up a lot. Yesterday I tried to use some reduced hydromorphone powder and snort it (about 16 mg.), and it swabbed me for a couple of hours, then the withdrawal symptoms started knocking at the door.
Unfortunately, they don't give me more at the methadone center since they know I use other prescribed opioids, but this habit of putting it in my mouth was the worst thing I could do, as tolerance is growing rapidly.
Hi

 

[xyz69]

Add a little alcohol for a faster and stronger effect, this worked for teva duragesic patches,unsure about current ones..

I use it on the surface of the patch to remove the ink.
The problem with alchool is that then you find yourself with a very disgusting substance in your mouth, which is fent and adhesive (somehow I had tried to make it become a kind of nasal spray, cooking it in alchool, isopropyl alchool, vodka, winegrad, citric acid, but nothing ever worked).

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Using these buy mouth is a giant waste. I’ve written why a million times over the year and described the best ways to use them if you search for similar discussions

The patches contain freebase fentanyl as opposed to the street fentanyl that is a salt. Freebase is not going to solubilize well in your wet mouth

Smoking the matrix patchesl directly is a waste also.

The best is wearing them then heating them with a blow dry. You’ll be fucked up all day and get the most out of it.

You’re not going to get any rush by mouth even if you do a ton. So it’s totally pointless.

 

[xyz69]

Using these buy mouth is a giant waste. I’ve written why a million times over the year and described the best ways to use them if you search for similar discussions

The patches contain freebase fentanyl as opposed to the street fentanyl that is a salt. Freebase is not going to solubilize well in your wet mouth

Smoking the matrix patchesl directly is a waste also.

The best is wearing them then heating them with a blow dry. You’ll be fucked up all day and get the most out of it.

You’re not going to get any rush by mouth even if you do a ton. So it’s totally pointless.

I don't want to be rude, but if you had any idea how a lipophilic drug works, you wouldn't say certain things.
Comparing the oral mucosa to the skin is bullshit.
Before putting them in my mouth, I tried to warm them on the skin with the hairdryer. They don't do anything.
In my opinion, either you've never put them in your mouth, or you don't know how to use them. Chewing them is not okay. They do almost nothing. The fent disperses into your saliva and you swallow it.
You just have to put them between the cheek and the tooth on the side of the adhesive of course. Salivation does not increase at all.
Of course, citrate works better.
Thank you. In fact, when I used the nasal spray 800 mcg was enough and also quite euphoric.
Fent freebase in the mouth takes 20 to 30 minutes before it takes effect.
Then (depending on how much you put in, I at night about 2-3 mg, you go from awake to blackout).
And if you reulilize them, they have no effect, so you take it up a lot.
Do you think I risk getting some oral disease because of the glue because I'm an idiot and I haven't experienced all the possible ways on my skin? From the hairdryer to the thermal blanket, to the hot water bubbles...
And last but not least: how much patch do you need to put on your skin to take effect? How long do you have to wait?
A patch of 75, divided into several parts, lasts three days on me.
So who's wasting it?

 

[LucidSDreamr]

a meth rant

The Tran dermal bio availability is literally 92%. Buccal is 50%. 92 > 50.

“So who’s wasting it?”

Source

Fentanyl - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

You seem to have a fundamental misunderstanding of numbers and use of Wikipedia l/google.

 

[xyz69]

Fentanyl remaining in a transdermal system following three days of continuous use - PubMed

There is a sufficient amount of fentanyl available for abuse and misuse after 3 days of therapeutic use. Adequate disposal policies currently are not established and need to be implemented.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[xyz69]

Thus, the patches release only a portion of the total fentanyl to the body (e.g., 10-20%), but of that released portion the bioavailability in the blood is high, up to 90%.
What you did not understand is that the bioavailability is 90 percent, but on a small part!! In fact, the patch has much more fentanyl than you can use since the skin is A BARRIER

In the meantime, you didn't answer any of the questions I asked you.
Then, if you want, I'll quote you dozens of scientific articles (no Wikipedia) where the residue of a patch applied to the skin varies depending on the extraction from 50% to 90%
Basically you use them, if you're fine with 50%.
Hello, that's it. Do what you want with your patches, I'll do what I want with mine.
PS. And anyway, if you really don't want to read the dozens of scientific evidences, you can simply use an ia, to get an idea of how the bioavailability of a fentanyl patch works reported by you:

Transmucosal: High bioavailability and rapid absorption, leaving very little residual drug.

Transdermal (patch on the skin): Slower release and high bioavailability but not immediate, with a significant amount of residual drug in the patch.

Oral (ingested): Lower bioavailability compared to the transmucosal route, due to hepatic metabolism.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

Fentanyl remaining in a transdermal system following three days of continuous use - PubMed

There is a sufficient amount of fentanyl available for abuse and misuse after 3 days of therapeutic use. Adequate disposal policies currently are not established and need to be implemented.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

That’s why you heat the patch as I originally said.

Where’s your evidence that buccal use with half the bioavailability fully removes any residual fentanyl from the patch? That’s what you need to win this argument.

otherwise all we can assume as that buccal does no better job at removing residual fentanyl vs transdermal (the roa the patches were designed for)

Lastly you can’t even heat during buccal use. You can heat during transdermal use.

.84 (the amount the paper says is absorbed) x .92 (bioavailability) > .84 X .50 (buccal BA)

 

[xyz69]

That’s why you heat the patch as I originally said.

Where’s your evidence that buccal use with half the bioavailability fully removes any residual fentanyl from the patch? That’s what you need to win this argument.

otherwise all we can assume as that buccal does no better job at removing residual fentanyl vs transdermal (the roa the patches were designed for)

Lastly you can’t even heat during buccal use. You can heat during transdermal use.

.84 (the amount the paper says is absorbed) x .92 (bioavailability) > .84 X .50 (buccal BA)

But I absolutely do not want to win the argument.
Before putting them in my mouth I used it as you say, but they did almost nothing to me accustomed to fent citrate in nasal spray. Then they didn't prescribe it to me anymore and I started putting them in my mouth.
From there it was a descent, a curse.
I do not know how much I take, in fact I asked for it in the application, I only know that it has effects. Hard and relatively fast.
A big problem for those who have had a history with heroin.
Now I can't get out of it, and the tolerance is increasing.
Tomorrow, like every 6 months, I have to go do the hair test for those in the methadone clinic.
If they throw me out, or want a doctor's report of how much fentanyl I am taking (as has already happened with oxycodone), I understand that I am taking more than 75 mcg/h

 

[LucidSDreamr]

But I absolutely do not want to win the argument.
Before putting them in my mouth I used it as you say, but they did almost nothing to me accustomed to fent citrate in nasal spray. Then they didn't prescribe it to me anymore and I started putting them in my mouth.
From there it was a descent, a curse.
I do not know how much I take, in fact I asked for it in the application, I only know that it has effects. Hard and relatively fast.
A big problem for those who have had a history with heroin.
Now I can't get out of it, and the tolerance is increasing.

But you posted that transdermal use doesn’t fully empty the patch

Where is the evidence that buccal does get it all out?

Did you try heating on the skin?

You can extract the patch with alcohol and dry it down and get pure fent but you will blow throw 2 weeks worth of patches in a day like this. This is also the only way I ever overdoses because you get totally pure fent. Like enough that you can barley see will OD you

Same with mixing and crushing the patch with an acidic solution and injecting the solution after.

Both of these things will just blow up your dependency and burn through your fent.

The patches were the most efficient way I ever used them was on the skin and heating as needed for the matrix patches. The peak high might not be as high as smoking it but it lasts all day instead of 3 hours

 

[xyz69]

But you posted that transdermal use doesn’t fully empty the patch

Where is the evidence that buccal does get it all out?

Did you try heating on the skin?

You can extract the patch with alcohol and dry it down and get pure fent but you will blow throw 2 weeks worth of patches in a day like this. This is also the only way I ever overdoses because you get totally pure fent. Like enough that you can barley see will OD you

Same with mixing and crushing the patch with an acidic solution and injecting the solution after.

Both of these things will just blow up your dependency and burn through your fent.

The patches were the most efficient way I ever used them was on the skin and heating as needed for the matrix patches. The peak high might not be as high as smoking it but it lasts all day instead of 3 hours

I didn't say it. Dozens of studies on patches by laboratories say it.
Cmq extraction is difficult, I have never been able to do it.
The only serious extraction is with methanol, but I'm not a chemist and I don't want to deal with methanol residues.
You'll like the effect of the heated patch, it doesn't say anything to me.

 

[xyz69]

I didn't say it. Dozens of studies on patches by laboratories say it.
Cmq extraction is difficult, I have never been able to do it.
The only serious extraction is with methanol, but I'm not a chemist and I don't want to deal with methanol residues.
You'll like the effect of the heated patch, it doesn't say anything to me.

I don't even like oxy very much. Here in Italy we have the unprotected version, it's all oxycodone.
But I never really liked it. I don't find it as euphoric as many claim.
The only serious drug is Jurnista (hydromorphone), which unfortunately they have taken off the market.
64 mg of hydromorphone reduced to powder is a lot of stuff. (it's not even complicated to reduce them to powder). Never used intravenously, inside they have a very bastard anti-abuse system, horos push pull. But you don't notice it in your nose until the day after you have glue attached to your nasal walls.
The micron filter is wasted for intranasal use.

 

[LucidSDreamr]

I didn't say it. Dozens of studies on patches by laboratories say it.
Cmq extraction is difficult, I have never been able to do it.
The only serious extraction is with methanol, but I'm not a chemist and I don't want to deal with methanol residues.
You'll like the effect of the heated patch, it doesn't say anything to me.

I have no idea what the “it” first line of this is referring to that dozens of studies say.

You only showed a study that termsdermal leaves fent in the patch leftover….so what’s so special about buccal (besides its shit BA) that buccal doesn’t also leave residual fent in the patch? Because if they both leave residual fent in the patch then all things are equal with that and bioavailability is what matter…and it’s twice as much bioavailability transdermal.

All you need to extract it is to smash the patch up in pharmacy bought 90% isopropyl with light heat (no open flames anywhere !).

Then after that, evaporate the isopropyl do dryness using light heat and a fan blowing on it.

It’s pretty easy. Very easy way to die so take really small hits of the residue.

You’ll use up your whole months script in a week doing this because you’ll be getting so high; so plan to have something else so u do t get sick

 

[xyz69]

I have no idea what the “it” first line of this is referring to that dozens of studies say.

You only showed a study that termsdermal leaves fent in the patch leftover….so what’s so special about buccal (besides its shit BA) that buccal doesn’t also leave residual fent in the patch? Because if they both leave residual fent in the patch then all things are equal with that and bioavailability is what matter…and it’s twice as much bioavailability transdermal.

All you need to extract it is to smash the patch up in pharmacy bought 90% isopropyl with light heat (no open flames anywhere !).

Then after that, evaporate the isopropyl do dryness using light heat and a fan blowing on it.

It’s pretty easy. Very easy way to die so take really small hits of the residue.

You’ll use up your whole months script in a week doing this because you’ll be getting so high; so plan to have something else so u do t get sick

But I also extracted it with isopropyl 99%.
I did the whole process. I let it dry. A layer of white powder formed that I thought was fent.
I scraped it and put it in water to make a spray.
But he didn't do anything to me.
Then I tried the whole process again and added citric acid and water to the white powder. I boiled. I thought it was fent.
But he didn't do anything to me.
I think it's just the loose adhesive.
Then I tried ascorbic acid. I tried vodka, I tried ethyl alcohol. But nothing.
And I gave up.
Yes PubMed there are many ways of extraction, by laboratories, but the only one that gives results is with methanol.
But the methanol residue is too dangerous.

What I don't understand, but I'm not a chemist nor do I have the equipment, is that the fent ended up after the extraction (as long as I managed to extract it). What is certain is that the patch was without fent because it did nothing to me.
I tried that in cold water but the powder did not melt.

 

[VAPain]

I have been using first actiq now mylan patches for years.
I need for pain relief and don’t want to get high.
My problem is after years of using patches my skin has started becoming red and irritated at patch site on back, front or hips.
The only place that doesn’t get irritated is my cheek.
Is there any study about using in mouth and how to make sure I am taking correct dosage? I have to divide into three or six to use in mouth.
I simply know no other body area to try and how to calculate to get the dose I should have without risking going over.
Am I getting less med? Is there another body area I haven’t thought of?
I don’t want to abuse.

 

[xyz69]

I have been using first actiq now mylan patches for years.
I need for pain relief and don’t want to get high.
My problem is after years of using patches my skin has started becoming red and irritated at patch site on back, front or hips.
The only place that doesn’t get irritated is my cheek.
Is there any study about using in mouth and how to make sure I am taking correct dosage? I have to divide into three or six to use in mouth.
I simply know no other body area to try and how to calculate to get the dose I should have without risking going over.
Am I getting less med? Is there another body area I haven’t thought of?
I don’t want to abuse.

No. I haven’t found any studies on buccal use of the patch, since the drug is embedded within the adhesive. So you’ll definitely absorb some of the glue. That means it’s not approved for buccal use.
You also have to completely remove the ink, which is easy using pure acetone and alcohol. Both dissolve completely and leave no residue.
Frankly, I don’t recommend it.
You’ll experience spikes and crashes — never a consistent dosage. Your nervous system will take a hit.
Your tolerance will increase massively.
Your urine and stool will have a terrible smell.
I don’t know if it’s caused by fentanyl metabolites or by the dissolved adhesive, but that’s what you’ll experience.
You’ll also have constant micro-withdrawals and will often need to supplement, meaning you’ll have to carry around small pieces of patch with you all the time.
It’s hard to dose the drug this way — sometimes you’ll feel a strong effect, sometimes very little, since the drug isn’t evenly distributed across the patch.
Find a way to keep applying the patch normally or switch to another medication.
Bye.

 

[golego55]

My problem is after years of using patches my skin has started becoming red and irritated at patch site on back, front or hips.

Have you tried using an antihistamine (such as benadryl)?