older sister = mortal enemies

[tantric]

i'm trying really hard right now not to do some crazy and potentially violent shit in response to my sister's latest deliberate attempt to fuck with my shit. see, we live in the family home, she in the main level, me in the basement. my 81yo father also lives upstairs. we're not separable - the W/D is downstairs (and my sister worships like an altar) and the only bathrooms upstairs. i have a kitchen area next to the laundry and my sister sees me as ritually unclean, though she'd choke and die before being able to express it that well. it's not just that i have no interest in the OCD motel style of cleanliness they practice (when you leave a room, it must look as if no one lives there, one a week all the chairs and shit have to overturned and vacuumed under). surprise, my allergies are a mind nuisance, they suffer them like the plague - and thus the need for cleaning. whatever. but my sister likes to 'clean' my kitchenette. i worked for years in a biosafety level one lab, where sterile procedure is the holy gospel - you ain't gone get sick from my food. but she likes to run amok and move shit around and the big thing - she gathers up my clean dishes from their racks and puts them in the dishwater...they weren't 'clean'.

now i tell you something about prison - you do NOT fuck with a man's stuff. that shit will get you killed pronto, dumbass. i have raged at her, fucked with her stuff and once in a confrontation resulting from her hiding my watering pail, knocked the bitch down. she is LONG past the state where i would have normally beat the piss out of her, but i can't, my father won't let me, besides me being a convicted felon (for assualting a cop, remember) and her having a job and shit. the fact that she's a far gone tweaked out bitch is apparently irrelevant. she trades the methadone she gets from the clinic for meth, and somehow passes the drug screens. how do i know this? she's mf pusher. *constantly* trying to get me to use. the simple fact is my life is MUCH more functional when i abstain from all dopaminergic drugs (alcohol, cigs, meth, opiates, junk food, porn) and stay herbal and vegan and daily dose DXM (don't act shocked when ya here it, 75mg) - i feel fantastic all the time and get loads of shit done. drugs mess that up, and i'm' trying to start a mf sustainable farm here!

tonight she when to the table where i keep my veggies to go to market and cleaned it. i have regular tomates ($.60/lbs) and heirloom tomatoes (four times that). one of my heirlooms, the most productive, looks like a regular tomato and tastes like italy just came in your mouth (that's good). today is the first day i've had more heirloom than regular tomatoes - but i don't have them now, because she cleaned them into one basket. i lost about $10 and it puts me in bad with the grocer lady.

so, what would you do?

 

[socko]

It sounds like meth makes her an OCD cleaner. She must go around the house and scrub everything clean with a toothbrush. You will never be able to change her. She is bossy even without being on meth, and meth makes every little quirk even worse and impossible for most people to chagne. They become rigid in their opinions and behavior. Worse, she must be of the biological age where people start to become crazy anyway. Many start to lose it around age 50, but it can happen younger. She sounds like the classic spinster sister or aunt that is a little off.

First, keep cool, no matter what. If you two get into a fight, the police will be called, and you will look like the bad guy.

Have you tried telling her that certain areas are off limits to her?

Otherwise, try being passive-aggressive. Just leave the dishes in the dishwasher and never use them again. Let her deal with them. Or put them all away and tape them up in a card board box. Take one that you like and only use that one.

It sucks about the tomatoes. Do your heirlooms look a little different so you can separate them?

 

[Mysterie]

when has being passive-aggressive helped to de-escalate a heated situation?

 

[socko]

It depends on how he does it. It has worked for me in the past. But of course, it can backfire. What would you do about her messing with his dishes all the time? I would either hide them all until my living situation is better or just leave them in the dishwasher next time she puts them there. She might get mad and smash them all or she might put them away for him.

 

[Boston_George]

Hi Tantric,

I am a residential supervisor at a rehab treatment facility for all kinds of criminal offenders. I'm currently working on my masters in social work so I can become a case worker and move up to more hands-on social work since it's my only "legal" passion other than psychoactives. I can sympathize with your comments about being in prison, what you say is spot on and I hear it every day. I'm sure I'll discuss it with some clients today when I pull a 12hr shift. Bottom line is I know where you're coming from and I can relate on a professional level. I've never been to prison, but I've spent nights in jail and have had a DV charge myself.

It sounds like your sister is going through two possible conundrums: 1.) She doesn't respect or care about what you have requested and made clear to hear and that could be for multiple reasons, some of which you can imagine I'm sure but I'm not going to speculate since it's not my cup of tea yet so to speak. 2.) She is aware and listens to your requests, but simply forgets or is a negligent person and ends up doing whatever she wants to do regardless of whoever else her actions are going to have an effect on. I'd like to believe it's #2, but it could be she just doesn't give a shit and is the type of personality that likes to start trouble.

The best advice I can give you at this point with the info provided is this: Get her help/treatment for her substance abuse issues ASAP. It will help you get her out of your hair among countless other benefits. If it's not an option then:

1.) Patience is everything. It's tough and nearly impossible to keep your cool sometime, but try to focus on something that distracts you in a positive way. Do you like to exercise, read, watch movies, play video games? Exercise works best for me since I'll take a run and pump some iron and feel much better, plus it releases endorphins which will help you recover from losing your cool.

2.) Try picking up another job to distance yourself further from her, or do whatever you can to distance yourself further. Whether it's a job, second job, walks in the park, getting a cat/dog, etc. those distractions can all help as well. Hell, it might even draw her in as well thinking of the animal and you might be able to develop a better connection with her.

3.) Write notes to her in a kind, patient, and compassionate way. I hate cliches, but you'll always catch more flies with honey and it's the blunt truth. I did this with my older brother when he was drinking back in school and it worked wonders to express my sincere and deeply heart felt emotions on paper not only because it got it off my chest, but the person can read it and have an easier time internalizing it. Verbal communication has gone to shit nowadays and texts messages seems to do the same, so a hand written letter explaining your frustrations could works wonders. Plus, she can save it and always refer back to it in the future.

4.) Patience, patience, patience. And kill her with kindness. It sounds funny, but I no longer have any "enemies" because I've "killed" them all with kindness. We aren't friends by any stretch, but we're civil with each other and we share mutual respect which is crucial.

5.) Tell her you love her unconditionally and write it in a letter to her expressing your feelings/frustrations. A hug and a simple "I love you" made with eye contact can make a world of difference even when you want to physically harm her. Violence is never the answer and it sounds like you have learned that, so consider this approach.

Lastly, give it time. These types of relationship issues with siblings (I have 3) can be exasperating and tiring, but they're never ever resolved over night. It could take a month, or it could be a year before she sees the light, but I feel as if you make the effort to be the better person and show the kind, understanding character I believe you're capable of she'll eventually come around.

I can't think of anything else, but my sister is a intake coordinator and I work with many case managers/RS staff to feel free to PM me with questions, or if there's anything I can do to further assist. Best of luck and try to take it easy since it's not good for your emotional/psychological/physical health to be stressed about this. And of course, you don't want to go back to prison so please do your best to keep your cool. It doesn't sounds like she has been to prison, so she has absolutely no idea where you're coming from which is where patience, time, understanding, compassion, love and written communication come into play.

Keep me posted if you like, I'm happy to assist. Best wishes friend.

B_G/Adj.

 

[Mysterie]

What would you do about her messing with his dishes all the time?

with the risk of sounding sanctimonious i could only get about 1/3 way through the OP because there is too much hate in it for me to read.

i didn't see why the OP can't move out of home. he sounds like he is over the age of 20, i would be losing my mind if i lived with a sister who was in active drug addiction and family in general. i have found my mental health state to be much improved since moving out of my family home.

She might get mad and smash them all or she might put them away for him.

for some reason i doubt that would happen without some form of payback/verbal conflict/anger directed back at tantric.

 

[llama112]

Siblings fight. Yes it sounds like you two are fighting more than usual. But it is still very normal to have sibling fights like this. I hated my sister until I moved out as well.

Do you have a lock on your door? Keep everything you don't want her to touch in your room.

 

[LilbabiC]

Maybe you could leave a real mess around for her to clean. Possibly mess up her side of the house; create a dirty road block of sorts so that she's preoccupied and doesn't touch the stuff that really matters.

 

[tantric]

with the risk of sounding sanctimonious i could only get about 1/3 way through the OP because there is too much hate in it for me to read.

i didn't see why the OP can't move out of home. he sounds like he is over the age of 20, i would be losing my mind if i lived with a sister who was in active drug addiction and family in general. i have found my mental health state to be much improved since moving out of my family home.

seriously? what are you, the emotional equivalent of a hothouse orchid? if a yell at you do you wilt? you're a victim, aren't you? well, i'm not. i happen to things, and people, people don't happen to me.

i'm 43 years old. five years ago i was working on my phd in ecology and epidemiolgy, which was interrupted by a two year stay in a maximum security prison - the state of GA decided i could better serve society by working in slave factory making those green and white street sign rather than as a post doc at the CDC. i live with my father because the alternative is going back to prison. to be honest, if i could just go back to the slave factory, where i had myself set up pretty good, i might do it.

for some reason i doubt that would happen without some form of payback/verbal conflict/anger directed back at tantric.

i have no idea what that means - are you saying you expect me to be annoyed with your sanctimonious comments? good call.

socko - yes, exactly. this is about the fifth major blow out we've had about this. yes, i've explained it to her, as in "DON'T TOUCH MY STUFF!!!". it started when i first set up my cooking area about three months ago. she went through it and took all the good knives and carried them upstairs. this is key - in her mind, she gets the lions share of everything, i get the leftovers and thank her for them. before prison, i basically let this happen. i didn't live with her, so i only really wanted to get her away from me - just let her take whatever so long as she'd go away. due to this, she came to believe that i'm hapless and a complete fool. she loves lying and manipulating, but i'm a low latent inhibition brain, so i *always* see through it. before i just didn't care - like whatever, nutso, just go away. so she got used to being able to 'fool' me with just about anything.consider her computer - she's totally techincally inept, if anything happens to the computer, i have to fix it. BUT at the same time, while i'm doing this, she talks to me like i'm a complete moron and watches every move i make. she has a wireless printer. one day i went to use it and noticed the power cord was missing. knowing she'd hidden it, i called and asked her what was up, where is the cord? she bold faced lied to me about the cord being missing and told me how she could help me get stuff printed at walmart. i agreed and told her what she wanted to hear, then went to my computer junk box, found a compatible cord, plugged it in and printed my shit, then cleaned up and hid the cord. last week i said something about it, letting her know i could print. she was outraged - how dare i? she needs that ink to print her resumes (about once a year). i looked at her and said "you LIED TO MY FACE. what i should have done is drawn back and knocked the teeth out you lyin' bitch mouth. what i did instead is take care of my shit. you lie to me, after that i'm free to fuck you over however i see fit. that's how shit works. deal with it." she took the printer and hid it - the printer i had to install and set up for her.

she absolute can't process that i'm not a victim anymore. in our first major blowout, she screamed "YOU'VE NEVER DONE THIS BEFORE". in my family, she's daddy's girl while i bonded with my mom. unfortunately, my mom died twenty years ago. to her, my dad can do no wrong - her head is actually physically attached to his ass. he does favor her, to a degree, but a lot of it is that the only thing he cares about is peace and quiet and being left alone. when we first started this, he'd tell me, 'this is what you got locked up for, you're heading right back to prison'. so i set her up and made her look like a complete lunatic, forced my dad to shut her down.

see, i'm learning to be a farmer now, meaning i work with my dad most days. understand that deep in my heart, i despise that hateful old scrooge, and i'll *never* forgive him for some of the unbelievable shit he's done to me, but day to day, we get along. we like quiet. my sister is the Death of Plants. she can't grow mold, but i'm a motherfuckin' DRUID. i got my dad's green thumb for veggies, my mother's for flowers, my own wet thumb for aquariums and vivariums, then phd ecology. according to my sister, my dad is humoring me because he likes to see me active, but there's no way i'll ever be a farmer. my father has never said a single positive thing to me in my life. when i called and told him i made a 1540/1600 on the GRE and got a two year scholarship that included a $1200/month living stipend, he literally told me i was wasting my time and should have kept my job at kroger (kroger is union, he worked at At&T and was union, retired there, and totally expected me to sign on with a megacompany, work with them my entire life and retire from there, current economic situation not withstanding). frankly, i'm not sure why he needs a dick, because every time he opens his mouth, piss and vinegar spew forth. the only way he'd let me live with him when i got out of prison (which was the only way i'd be released, if i had a place to live) was for me to apply for SSI/disabilty on the basis that i'm utterly hopeless and useless, including going to shrinks every week and pretending to be crazy, pretending to take their drugs, etc. that's how i spent the first two years outside - i couldn't work or get a job, because you can't work while trying to get disabilty. i'm serious - he'd throw me out if i tried to get a job and fix my life. i did it for two years, go denied for disability, of course then all this started - me trying to fix my life. he still nags me to go back to the free mental health clinic and pretend to be crazy, he actually thinks that's my job now.

BUT we're kinda bonding a bit over the gardening. he's the salt of the earth - what you pour on fertile ground when you want to kill it forever. fuck, i remember the huge bag of DDT he bought just before it got banned, so he wouldn't run out.i go my garden projects, he watches and verbally shits all over it, but mf, my shit WORKS. and i'm making money. this is a HUGE threat to my sister, even though she's in denial about it. the truth of the matter is that i could easily take her daddy away from her, but i don't want the cantankerous old fart. he's never approved of anything i've ever done, so i don't give a shit about his approval. he kind of respects that - my sister's sycophantry bugs the crap out of him.

wow, maybe i do need to talk to a therapist....

 

[tantric]

i've decided what i'm going to do. she trades the methadone she gets from the clinic for methamphetamine, which is a large part of the problem. somehow the clinic isn't concerned about her drug tests - she even said that one of the counselors said in passing she was positive for methamphetamine, and she brushed it off as sudafed (meaning she was VERY obviously lying). i'm going to go to the clinic and talk with them. i want her back on daily dose, where she belongs. the lady who runs the place is an ultrachristian high bitch Sioux indian. the trick will be not getting into a confrontation with her. i want her to look at the tests and enforce the regulations. she can't think i'm trying to force her to do anything or she'll buckle down. i'm pretty sure i can handle that. okay, on a scale of kittens to Cersei Lannister, how evil is this?

 

[StarOceanHouse]

^that's just the equivalent of cercei lannister using the faith to clean up house.

 

[pofacedhoe]

find somewhere else to live and get away from her. the less interactions the better

 

[socko]

I don't want to be judgemental and criticize your father, but he sounds like Archie Bunker. He is blue collar and uneducated. You, on the other hand, tried to rise beyond that. You went to college and got an education. You know more than him. You're smarter than him. He's older, but older does not always translate to wiser. (If it did, the world wouldn't be in the mess it is in.) But it's his house and he makes the rules. That drives you crazy because he is doing everything wrong (ddt, probably OCD about how green the lawn is, hating grad school, etc), and his rules are probably stupid and poorly thought through.

I think you are having a normal reaction to a bad situation. You need to get out of there and don't come back until he's in a nursing home and your sister is gone.

Whatever you do, stay calm. Don't lose your temper about your sister worrying about stupid things like a few cents worth of printer ink or paper. Maybe you should get your own printer. Free or less than $10 on craigslist, but make sure you get the one that takes the cheapest toner cartridges (<$10). And hide the cord.

ps: Boston_George gave some good advice. His job is to work with difficult living situations and conflicts, so he might know some specific ways to deal with some of the issues you're facing.

 

[tantric]

I don't want to be judgemental and criticize your father, but he sounds like Archie Bunker. He is blue collar and uneducated. You, on the other hand, tried to rise beyond that. You went to college and got an education. You know more than him. You're smarter than him. But it's his house and he makes the rules. That drives you crazy because he is doing everything wrong (ddt, probably OCD about how green the lawn is, hating grad school, etc), and his rules are probably stupid and poorly thought through.

I think you are having a normal reaction to a bad situation. You need to get out of there and don't come back until he's in a nursing home and your sister is gone.

Whatever you do, stay calm. Don't lose your temper about your sister worrying about stupid things like a few cents worth of printer ink or paper. Maybe you should get your own printer. Free or less than $10 on craigslist, but make sure you get the one that takes the cheapest toner cartridges (<$10). And hide the cord.

i am taking your advice about the passive aggressive stuff. when i confronted my dad about this latest incursion, he said "you make a mess in the bathroom upstairs. you left soap all over the shower. suzy said you left a dirt ring". yeah, i went off. from now on, i don't pretend the stupid OCD shit. i've actually been very careful about tracking in dirt and shit, fuck i have cleaning stations and a routine. fuck that shit. in one of her recent geeked up diatribes, she was talking about how i'm getting back out in the world, i agreed and she said, 'so now you're gonna start livin more like us, bein clean, right?!?' in prison...yeah, you say that and you IMMEDIATELY get the ever loving shit beat out of you. i let it pass. but now, dammit, i'm bring the mf dirt uptown. i'm going to operate in a manner that is efficient, practical and potentially sterile (gourmet mushrooms) but not at all presentable. piles of vegetables atop the washer/dryer, etc.

 

[socko]

haha, sounds good. I think that is worth trying. Take the battle to her. Keep her distracted scrubbing soap rings and wet foot prints with her tooth brush. An xgf complained that I never cleaned the soap from the shower, so I left jizz the next time for her to OCD over. (We broke up not long after that.) Just be careful or it will escalate.

I think sisters are like girlfriends - they are both bossy and try to control everything in the house, especially the kitchen. Of course, she will steal your best knives, plates, cups, tea pot and any thing and everything that draws her eye. There is nothing you can do to change it. Just keep your good stuff hidden and sealed in boxes, and don't use it until you have your own place.

And remember to keep your cool, no matter what. Even if she gets violent, don't push back. Just walk out of the room.

 

[BornAgainYogi]

There's a book called non violent communication on PDF that can help you and your outlook towards confrontation if you're open to it.

 

[tantric]

There's a book called non violent communication on PDF that can help you and your outlook towards confrontation if you're open to it.

man, i believed that mess heart and soul most of my life. 'violence solves nothing'. now, in retrospect, i can admit that i used that as a defense to avoid admitting that i was afraid to fight. when someone hits you, do you (not you personally, sri yogi, the universal you) just curl up and take it? what if they don't stop? what if you're really going to be beaten to death? do you just lay there and die? well, i learned that i don't - when i have to, i fight like a cornered rat, which is totally apropos.


i've learned a few thing in prison. one is that violence is fact of life. human beings are apes, and apes slap each other around. so what? i believe that one day we can make a world free of warfare, but in no way do i believe it's possible to have a human society where people don't get in bar fights. get real. i've had people tell me that because i was in a fight that i'm not human, that i'm a monster. absolute horse shit. people scrap. random spurts of interpersonal violence are about as significant as eating boogers - yes, it's ugly and nasty, but it happens and some really twisted people like it.

violence and, much more importantly, the implicit threat of violence are extremely useful tools in social interactions. duh. think i'm a barbarian? way i see it is game theory, the hawk-dove game in fact. doves share their food, hawks fight each other for it, but hawks always beat doves. if the damage the hawks do to each other is severe enough, you get a situation where a few doves persist. persist - what kind of life is that? but i'm not a hawk, i *hate* competition, i won't do any kind of competive activity recreationally because cooperation is so much more efficient. i'm a crow - i fight with the hawks and share with the doves. that means that the equilibrium changes, so that there are *many* more doves. which is the world i want to live in.

so dude, get past it. if i can accept you as a yogi, you need to accept me as a mf jedi.

 

[Mysterie]

when your violent against someone else, your violent against yourself at the same time.

peaceful action doesn't mean you can't defend your self.

honestly i haven't needed to defend myself against assailants, because it is not difficult to exit a situation which is going to turn into a fight in the first place.

also im pretty sure game theory was developed by a guy who was in the midst of a state of paranoid schizophrenia, he thought his colleagues wearing red ties were communists conspiring against him. now he is better and thinks that game theory was very limited in its perspective.

 

[pofacedhoe]

why cant you move out???????

 

[tantric]

i can't move out cause 1)i'm a piss poor felon on parole and 2)i'm trying to turn this land into a productive, sustainable farm

so, i did it. turned her in to the clinic, one of the evilist things i've ever done. the kicked her out, she has to start over at a new clinic. i'm feeling cersei, and i don't like it, but she hasn't spoken to me or messed with me in a week.