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N&PD Moderators: Skorpio | thegreenhand
NMDA antagonists and possible effects on memory in rat and human studies.
- Thread starter pewtergod
- Start date
Zeds(NCO2CH2CH3)2
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jul 10, 2014
- Messages
- 100
People will yell at you for lack of studies and anecdotal reports but realize that damage and cell death are broad and vast terms with multiple explanations . Nothing is conclusive and classical olneys lesions surely don't exist in primates but some imaging methods could provide data that could be construed similarly I. E FMRI and PET imaging.
Even then these provide signal intensity but that does not mean true lack of signal intensity correlates to damaged regions.
There was a study from China a year or two ago which demonstrated hypo intense regions in poly drug users.. With a small sample size.. Not conclusive imo.
If you want my opinion though, drug usage strongly affects transcriptional processes through utilizing the reverse dogma of DNA (DNA transcribed to RNA then translates into proteins). Drugs modify the proteins and through feedback mechanisms they affect transcription by increasing or decreasing the protein. What must be interesting to note is that drugs like LSD shift transcription of proteins in an almost gaussian shift. Thereby increasing transcriptional activity of some but decreasing others. It's all protein and drug dependent in its effects..
Bottom line we can't demonstrate true damage right now except for phenotypic and clinical presentations, even then most occasional( non, - daily, weekly or monthly) drug users of nmda antagonists are fine but as we discussed before drugs provide a shift in the gaussian curve in metaphorical systems. Also as an example consider after Ketamine use the next week the person may exhibit memory deficits in non-episodic memory but is beautifully performs well or better in another memory systems. Realize that one class of a receptor I. E- NMDA has billions of itself and damage is not a true phrase.
TLDR: DAMAGE, neurotoxicity, and apoptosis are highly debated topics with shifting nomenclature. You are seeing deficits in people and yourself probably because they are using them too much, these drugs will improve some facets but weaken others..
ZedZ
Even then these provide signal intensity but that does not mean true lack of signal intensity correlates to damaged regions.
There was a study from China a year or two ago which demonstrated hypo intense regions in poly drug users.. With a small sample size.. Not conclusive imo.
If you want my opinion though, drug usage strongly affects transcriptional processes through utilizing the reverse dogma of DNA (DNA transcribed to RNA then translates into proteins). Drugs modify the proteins and through feedback mechanisms they affect transcription by increasing or decreasing the protein. What must be interesting to note is that drugs like LSD shift transcription of proteins in an almost gaussian shift. Thereby increasing transcriptional activity of some but decreasing others. It's all protein and drug dependent in its effects..
Bottom line we can't demonstrate true damage right now except for phenotypic and clinical presentations, even then most occasional( non, - daily, weekly or monthly) drug users of nmda antagonists are fine but as we discussed before drugs provide a shift in the gaussian curve in metaphorical systems. Also as an example consider after Ketamine use the next week the person may exhibit memory deficits in non-episodic memory but is beautifully performs well or better in another memory systems. Realize that one class of a receptor I. E- NMDA has billions of itself and damage is not a true phrase.
TLDR: DAMAGE, neurotoxicity, and apoptosis are highly debated topics with shifting nomenclature. You are seeing deficits in people and yourself probably because they are using them too much, these drugs will improve some facets but weaken others..
ZedZ
Epsilon Alpha
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Jun 14, 2011
- Messages
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For ketamine at least there is pretty convincing evidence that it does cause structural brain damage in humans at abuse level doses. http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23882190
Now I'm not sure that the other drugs will have as much info on them as ketamine is a pretty essential medication, but personally I think its going to be a class effect with perhaps differing safety margins.
Now I'm not sure that the other drugs will have as much info on them as ketamine is a pretty essential medication, but personally I think its going to be a class effect with perhaps differing safety margins.
