Polynomial
Bluelighter
Hah.
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OD Moderators: Keif’ Richards | negrogesic
Benzos Nitrazepam is NOT right for me. - Need suggestions regarding short-acting benzos!
- Thread starter Polynomial
- Start date
veinville
Greenlighter
your correct xanax would provide you the best releif and as far as the doctor situation just be open and truthful with him but not to a degree where he thinks your up to date on your pharmacology!
poppyplanet
Bluelighter
First of all, Klonopin isn't really short acting. It's more of a medium-long acting benzo as it's half life is really long. And I would also agree with veinville in that Xanax would probably be your best option. You have to be truthful with your Doctor and come off as valid and he or she will most likely treat you with the best medication for your situation. Just don't let them throw anti-depressants at you, because in my experience, Doctors love to do this. If you're having panic attacks, paxil or zoloft isn't a good quick solution as they take weeks to build up and then, they still are shit, as far as I'm concerned.
Klonipin is not short-acting, first off. I would suggest either Xanax (alprazolam) or Valium (diazepam). Both hit pretty quickly, although Xanax will hit a bit faster with a bit more of a punch. The only reason I throw Valium in as a suggestion is that is, unlike Xanax, pretty commonly rx'd for muscle spasms and the like. Some will say Valium has a really long half-life, well that isn't wrong because it and its active metabolites do have a really long half-life, but the duration of action of Valium is not that long. If you are taking multiple doses of Valium daily, yes the metabolites will build up in the system and exert more pronounced effect, but taken as needed Valium is just fine. Valium is sometimes regarded as more sedating than Xanax, but everyone likes their benzos different. At the beginning of the post I was going to suggest Xanax above Valium, but I am now thinking than Valium might be just as good if not better for your situation. Either one will do you good. I would talk to your doctor, and just say you want to switch from nitrazepam to diazepam, I don't see why he would disagree esp. if you have musclular pain and tightness. He might be more hesitant about Xanax due to its perceived increased reacreational potential, but you could bring that up emphasizing your anxiety attacks.
soundphaRm
Bluelighter
Yeah...I think Valium would work better for you..it has very nice muscle relaxing properties, which would definitely help your back...no wonder you feel tired, nitrazepam should really be used for insomnia, as it's too sedating. Not good to take during the day at all.
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Polynomial
Bluelighter
I very much appreciate your input everyone. Thank you.
Thomas29
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Oct 25, 2010
- Messages
- 1,505
IMO Dalmane (Flurazepam) is the Benzo with best muscle relaxing properties more so than Valium (Diazepam) which is better than Nitrazepam but that is just from my experience. But for quick acting Benzos that would be Temazepam the xanax you said and Lorazepam orally or under your tongue kicks in quick but might last longer.... Hell even Alcohol although for more complicated reasons maybe not very affective is short-acting.
limonov
Bluelighter
Do you just want a fast acting benzo (i.e. one that kicks in quickly) or do you want a short acting benzo (i.e. one you could take at night to sleep & have no effects from it when you get up)?
When it comes to stopping panic attacks in their tracks- alprazolam (xanax, we don't get brandnames here) and triazolam are imho the two benzos that 'hit' the quickest. However both of these are quite short acting benzos too- alprazolam is gone in about 6-8 hours, triazolam 2-4 hours. If you are using them for legitimate theraputic uses (many benzos help with pain due to their muscle relaxant properties- a person I know is actually PRESCRIBED diazepam vials for IM as it's the only thing that stops her crippling-lower-back-muscle-spasms- gave up her morphine script because it worked so well for her) you may want a slightly longer acting benzo, just so that you have enough time for a little psychological break so you can get your thoughts in order and won't feel the need to redose.
If nitrazepam isn't working for you (and you have an agreeable doctor), you could try a equivilent dose of Temazepam which is quite similar to nitrazepam with a slightly shorter half-life & and a slightly quicker come on. Midazolam may also be a good choice for you, as it has strong muscle relaxant properties that may help with your pain. I'd advise you to stay away from clonazepam/lorazepam/diazepam and all the other benzos with active metabolites and (extremely) long half-lives, you don't want to be zombified for the rest of the night just because of a panic attack in the afternoon.
In my experience benzos are all the same as a family, but each one effects each person slightly differently- it's not so much trying to find the 'perfect benzo' but rather trying to find the benzo that works perfectly for you and your needs. Talk to your doctor, try to act like you didn't start a thread online asking for advice, and tell him that you feel that it is necessary for you and your doctor to explore other treatment possibilities so that you can find the medication that works best for you.
Damn I'm wordy. I always mean just to write a sentence.
When it comes to stopping panic attacks in their tracks- alprazolam (xanax, we don't get brandnames here) and triazolam are imho the two benzos that 'hit' the quickest. However both of these are quite short acting benzos too- alprazolam is gone in about 6-8 hours, triazolam 2-4 hours. If you are using them for legitimate theraputic uses (many benzos help with pain due to their muscle relaxant properties- a person I know is actually PRESCRIBED diazepam vials for IM as it's the only thing that stops her crippling-lower-back-muscle-spasms- gave up her morphine script because it worked so well for her) you may want a slightly longer acting benzo, just so that you have enough time for a little psychological break so you can get your thoughts in order and won't feel the need to redose.
If nitrazepam isn't working for you (and you have an agreeable doctor), you could try a equivilent dose of Temazepam which is quite similar to nitrazepam with a slightly shorter half-life & and a slightly quicker come on. Midazolam may also be a good choice for you, as it has strong muscle relaxant properties that may help with your pain. I'd advise you to stay away from clonazepam/lorazepam/diazepam and all the other benzos with active metabolites and (extremely) long half-lives, you don't want to be zombified for the rest of the night just because of a panic attack in the afternoon.
In my experience benzos are all the same as a family, but each one effects each person slightly differently- it's not so much trying to find the 'perfect benzo' but rather trying to find the benzo that works perfectly for you and your needs. Talk to your doctor, try to act like you didn't start a thread online asking for advice, and tell him that you feel that it is necessary for you and your doctor to explore other treatment possibilities so that you can find the medication that works best for you.
Damn I'm wordy. I always mean just to write a sentence.
Polynomial
Bluelighter
Actually, short acting, but preferably strong but not incapacitating. If it is euphoric it will calm me much better. Euphoria would be a major positive factor for me. - I'd like it to kick in soon after taking it. But the most important thing is that I can FEEL the effects for the whole duration. Otherwise my mind plays tricks on me. If you understand how I mean.
Polynomial
Bluelighter
Got a script
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Why don't you learn some more constructive ways of coping with anxiety than numbing your mind with drugs? No offense but this post is pathetic. You get a credit card bill so you need a drug? Learn to deal with life.
I am only saying this because I used to be just like you. And in the end I wound up with a nasty benzo addiction that destroyed my life. There are better ways to deal with anxiety, trust me.
I am only saying this because I used to be just like you. And in the end I wound up with a nasty benzo addiction that destroyed my life. There are better ways to deal with anxiety, trust me.
BananasAndOranges
Bluelighter
- Joined
- Mar 25, 2010
- Messages
- 1,982
I'm assuming this is for general fairly bad panic/anxiety attacks during the day after reading other posters responses. Xanax is what I take and quite honestly its not the best option unless you really do have panic situations. Diazepam is the best benzodiazepine there is but every doctor I see seems to think its outdated and just for muscle tension which I wont argue with a doctor about. Diazepam kicks in as quick as xanax in my three years of experience with it. It differs from xanax in that it gives multiple relief symptoms of anxiety like muscle tension, headaches due to stress and ect. While Xanax is really good at sedating and anxiety related issues that need taken care of asap it does not provide you much other than that. As everyone else is saying Diazepam is also longer lasting but it looks like you want something short acting. Ativan is pretty fast but its just slightly longer acting than Xanax and I may get bashed for this but I find Ativan to be a bedtime drug only. With all my experience it causes changes in vision almost exactly like Ambien would. It is kind of uncomfortable as well. Temazepam is not really good for anything besides bed time anxiety but that can be argued. Maybe Halcion would work for you? Its pretty potent. I dont even know any doctors who give that benzo you just had so Im sure you have a wide variety of whatever the fuck you want options. Go with Halcion, Rohypnol, or Xanax. I think those would suit your case better if its short acting that you look for and immediate relief.
tricomb
Bluelight Crew
be careful with the short acting benzos, they're the most addicting and have some of the worst W/D.
I was so dependent on alprazolam that when trying to get off it NO other benzo could take away the life threatening withdrawals. The docs tried diazepam, klonopin, ativan, but nothing worked to get me off it except a really slow taper with alprazolam.
I was so dependent on alprazolam that when trying to get off it NO other benzo could take away the life threatening withdrawals. The docs tried diazepam, klonopin, ativan, but nothing worked to get me off it except a really slow taper with alprazolam.
Polynomial
Bluelighter
Well after a long discussion with my doctor yesterday, I decided Xanax would be a terrible idea for me, considering the implications it has for addiction. He ended up prescribing me 30 Valium, and gave me a month sample of Wellbutrin XL, which I don't think I will take. SSRI type medicines simply aren't an option for me - I was on an SSRI calle Cipralex some years back, and it made my depression go away to a degree - in the sense that I didn't feel negative emotions all the time - nor did I experience many positive ones. Many will disagree with this statement - but I find I personally find it to be true entirely - lack of emotion, and mental numbness should not be classified as properly treated depression. Mentally everyone goes through these ups and downs, sometimes the natural highs are more powerful than your first powerfully positive experience you've had using psychoactives. I believe that the natural lows that we have in life can absolutely be worse than a terrible come-down, or bad-trip. Because it's real, and typically based on self-pity, overanalyzation of life. THIS IS NATURAL IN LIFE. The specific issue of SSRIs I have is, by analogy like a sine-wave. Let's leave the concept of frequency out of this at this point but talk about amplitude. Before I took this medication, (I was 14-16 years old) the baseline(? <-- unsure if the terminology is correct, but the mid point between the top and bottom peaks of the wave) was indeed lower than it should have been. Most likely due to the fact that I was fucking up the average wave period with this drug and that drug. (Marijuana I found had the wost effect on me suprisingly). Sometimes my mood was great, but much less frequently than I was a miserable mess, and there was no pattern to this (i.e. breakdown every 3 days).
The SSRI effected me in a way that (possibly due to drug interactions, likely related to regular cannabis consumption) again, using the sine-wave analagy was that the peak-to-peak amplitude was reduced substantial. A good day I'd describe as "Meh?" and a bad day would be "Meh..". Although one effect (Benefit?) was that the frequency was predricatable..
I hope that was understandable.
An update on my situation since my Doctor's appointment:
I've used the Valum twice. (2 x 5mg pills, on two occasions within 5 hours of eachother.) This was at work, for my back pain originally, and then an overwhelming realization of my current stressful life situation, in which I also took 5mg of Nitrazepam.(I'm 21 I shouldn't have such excruciating back pain, it's bullshit, I know.) It helped somewhat.
•Will erratic usage cause dangerous effects?
•I've found that Nitrazepam and Diazepam work relatively well together in small doses. Are there any drug interactions with either of these? Please also note whether they are just DANGEROUS, or dangerous to to the fact that they potentiate. To save money (I have no medical coverage) I sometimes take a partial dose of medication with a glass of grapefruit juice, or benadryl. (But I'm aware of how much is safe, but only the safe amounts to ake wth directed dosage.
•One more absolutely vital question: Considering I've used 10mg at a time, as directed, how much would I have to take at once to black out? I will use these recreationally on occasion - but not excessively. With my first benzo experience I took an unknown amount of Klonopin (Between 2mg and 8mg) and blacked out for over 28 hours, during which time I ingested 30+ benadryl. I'll never forget when I was shown the video of myself. I have low tolerance, and am not extremely educated. You guys are the best.
The SSRI effected me in a way that (possibly due to drug interactions, likely related to regular cannabis consumption) again, using the sine-wave analagy was that the peak-to-peak amplitude was reduced substantial. A good day I'd describe as "Meh?" and a bad day would be "Meh..". Although one effect (Benefit?) was that the frequency was predricatable..
I hope that was understandable.
An update on my situation since my Doctor's appointment:
I've used the Valum twice. (2 x 5mg pills, on two occasions within 5 hours of eachother.) This was at work, for my back pain originally, and then an overwhelming realization of my current stressful life situation, in which I also took 5mg of Nitrazepam.(I'm 21 I shouldn't have such excruciating back pain, it's bullshit, I know.) It helped somewhat.
•Will erratic usage cause dangerous effects?
•I've found that Nitrazepam and Diazepam work relatively well together in small doses. Are there any drug interactions with either of these? Please also note whether they are just DANGEROUS, or dangerous to to the fact that they potentiate. To save money (I have no medical coverage) I sometimes take a partial dose of medication with a glass of grapefruit juice, or benadryl. (But I'm aware of how much is safe, but only the safe amounts to ake wth directed dosage.
•One more absolutely vital question: Considering I've used 10mg at a time, as directed, how much would I have to take at once to black out? I will use these recreationally on occasion - but not excessively. With my first benzo experience I took an unknown amount of Klonopin (Between 2mg and 8mg) and blacked out for over 28 hours, during which time I ingested 30+ benadryl. I'll never forget when I was shown the video of myself. I have low tolerance, and am not extremely educated. You guys are the best.
limonov
Bluelighter
Nice work on not falling into the xanax trap- it's a fucking shitty ride.
1) By erratic dosage I presume you mean not taking the whole dose at once? Because of how diazepam metabolises it slowly accumulates in your system (as various metabolites) and often has a 36 hour+ halflife, so splitting your doses will just mean that you'll have a smoother comeon and a lower plateau (which is probably what you want at work heh). I'm glad the diazepam helped with your backpain, as I mentioned- it has quite strong muscle relaxant properties that really help people with particular sorts of pain.
2) There's nothing 'wrong' with stacking nitrazepam and diazepam, they are closely related and have more or less the same effects. Just look up the equvilancy here =
http://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm
and work out how much you're taking in terms of diazepam- it's not holy writ, but it's really useful in gauging 'how much' you've taken. Nitrazepam and Diazepam are about as potent per weight (10mg nitraz = 10mg diaz), so that makes things simple.
3) Taking between 2-8mg of klonopin (clonazepam) is the eqivilant of taking 40-160mg of diazepam and is a fairly long acting benzo- it's no wonder you blacked out from that dose, particularly if you didn't have a tolerance, 40-120mg of diazepam is a monster dose! Particularly for a beginner! If you want to take it 'recreationally', I'd reccomend starting with 15-20mg (maybe split dose, so you can gauge how trashed you are- try 2.5 5mg pills, wait 45-60 mins and if you want to take another 1.5 pills- so 20mg, staggered over 2 doses)- you will suffer some memory loss (just like with booze), but you'd probably need to take 40-60mg to suffer proper amnesia/potentially go apeshit and be made fun of when you're together enough to feel shame. Also, although a lot of people do it, I'd reccomend you don't drink on benzos- just take a higher dose of benzo rather than trying to 'potentiate' your benzo dose. Getting trashed on benzos can be messy, but it's nothing compared to the chaos what follows benzos + alcohol.
And props for actually looking for infomation/asking questions on the internet before taking the pills- too many people just think 'fuck it, ll'be sweet as' and end up in completely avoidable retarded situtations.
Also- Wellburtin (Bupropion) isn't a SSRI, it's a DNRI and is distinct from prozac, zoloft and that whole line of SSRIs. Originally released as a treatment for ADHD, it's a bit of an oddball drug that had been bounced around for quite a while. I'm very opposed to SSRIs (they have consistantly given me horrific side effects), but I found that Wellburtin did actually help with my general depression/motivation and didn't give me any of the regular I-must-kill-myself-because-I-am-a-zombie side effects other SSRIs gave me- just a bit of insomnia and indigestion. You know what's best for your mind and body, but just try to keep an open mind. Maybe it's the drug meant for you? Like it was for me ( eventhough I am off it now I did take it for around 8 months and I think it genuinely helped- if/when I go back on antidepressants I'm going )
1) By erratic dosage I presume you mean not taking the whole dose at once? Because of how diazepam metabolises it slowly accumulates in your system (as various metabolites) and often has a 36 hour+ halflife, so splitting your doses will just mean that you'll have a smoother comeon and a lower plateau (which is probably what you want at work heh). I'm glad the diazepam helped with your backpain, as I mentioned- it has quite strong muscle relaxant properties that really help people with particular sorts of pain.
2) There's nothing 'wrong' with stacking nitrazepam and diazepam, they are closely related and have more or less the same effects. Just look up the equvilancy here =
http://www.benzo.org.uk/bzequiv.htm
and work out how much you're taking in terms of diazepam- it's not holy writ, but it's really useful in gauging 'how much' you've taken. Nitrazepam and Diazepam are about as potent per weight (10mg nitraz = 10mg diaz), so that makes things simple.
3) Taking between 2-8mg of klonopin (clonazepam) is the eqivilant of taking 40-160mg of diazepam and is a fairly long acting benzo- it's no wonder you blacked out from that dose, particularly if you didn't have a tolerance, 40-120mg of diazepam is a monster dose! Particularly for a beginner! If you want to take it 'recreationally', I'd reccomend starting with 15-20mg (maybe split dose, so you can gauge how trashed you are- try 2.5 5mg pills, wait 45-60 mins and if you want to take another 1.5 pills- so 20mg, staggered over 2 doses)- you will suffer some memory loss (just like with booze), but you'd probably need to take 40-60mg to suffer proper amnesia/potentially go apeshit and be made fun of when you're together enough to feel shame. Also, although a lot of people do it, I'd reccomend you don't drink on benzos- just take a higher dose of benzo rather than trying to 'potentiate' your benzo dose. Getting trashed on benzos can be messy, but it's nothing compared to the chaos what follows benzos + alcohol.
And props for actually looking for infomation/asking questions on the internet before taking the pills- too many people just think 'fuck it, ll'be sweet as' and end up in completely avoidable retarded situtations.
Also- Wellburtin (Bupropion) isn't a SSRI, it's a DNRI and is distinct from prozac, zoloft and that whole line of SSRIs. Originally released as a treatment for ADHD, it's a bit of an oddball drug that had been bounced around for quite a while. I'm very opposed to SSRIs (they have consistantly given me horrific side effects), but I found that Wellburtin did actually help with my general depression/motivation and didn't give me any of the regular I-must-kill-myself-because-I-am-a-zombie side effects other SSRIs gave me- just a bit of insomnia and indigestion. You know what's best for your mind and body, but just try to keep an open mind. Maybe it's the drug meant for you? Like it was for me ( eventhough I am off it now I did take it for around 8 months and I think it genuinely helped- if/when I go back on antidepressants I'm going )
To the OP, mixing the nitrazepam and diazepam is fine, it just adding one benzo on another. If you have used 10 mg Valium for therapuetic purposes, I would advise maybe 20 mg for recreational purposes, unless however, you are combining the Valium with another type of CNS depressant, such as an opiate, in which case 10 mg Valium is more than sufficient to begin with.
phatass
Bluelighter
nitrazepam is not to be ttaken during the day fo therapeuic reasons as it is a hyopnotic.. ana is a good anxiolytic with a shot half life
No, erratic use of benzos should be fine for most people. The danger is that it will develop into an addiction and benzo addiction is the worst drug addiction there is because it causes long term (in some cases irrerversable) changes to the GABA receptors which results in all kinds of unbearable and bizzare symptoms. Go to benzo.org.uk or benzobuddies.org to read what happens to people who become addicted to these drugs. I know you're going to say "I won't get addicted" but try to keep in mind that that is exactly what we all said when we started taking benzos too and most of us found ourselves addicted at some point. I used benzos erratically for a long time (without problems) before I finally succumbed to addiction and it was an addiction which was absolutely devestating and disabling for me. Good luck keeping your usage to occasional.