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NEWS: [The Advertiser] 23/5/03: Police want driver blood tests

mudomia

Bluelighter
Joined
Mar 24, 2003
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34
Police want driver blood tests
By NIGEL HUNT
23may03
POLICE want to regain the power to conduct blood tests on motorists they suspect are driving under the influence of drugs.

A submission requesting legislative changes to allow the practice to resume is being considered by the State Government. Police lost the power in 1999 when sections of the Summary Offences Act were repealed and the new Forensic Procedures Act – which does not cover the procedure – was introduced.

The move would provide police with evidence – as a blood alcohol level does – that could be used against a motorist charged with driving under the influence of a drug.

Assistant Commissioner (Operations Support Service) Graeme Barton said yesterday at present blood can be taken from a suspected motorist only voluntarily – which most refuse – unless they are injured in an accident and attend or are admitted to hospital.

Court cases are then often drawn-out and complicated as prosecutors call witnesses to try to prove their case.

"We are requesting legislative change to facilitate the taking of a blood sample, by a qualified person, of someone we suspect of driving under the influence of a drug," Mr Barton said. "It will show us what drug is in their blood, what level and how they are impaired.

"This is firm evidence for a prosecution and would cut the number and length of court cases."

Police say there is an emerging problem with drug-driving which they believe is increasing in line with the surge in amphetamine use in SA.

A seven-member police working group has been established to determine the size of the problem and devise measures to tackle it.

The group – comprising traffic police, legal officers and drug and alcohol policy section officers – is closely examining a trial under way in Victoria involving the random drug testing of motorists.

"If the Victorian trial is successful I would suggest it would not be too far down the track before all states in Australia adopt it," Mr Barton said.

Police figures show that 45 people were charged with drug-driving in 2002.

Research undertaken by leading insurer AAMI has revealed alarming levels of drug driving. The findings include that one in four male drivers aged 18 to 34 drives after taking recreational drugs.

"I think the community would be dismayed at the prevalence of drug-driving and I believe some sections of the motoring community use drugs rather than drink alcohol because of the greater likelihood of being detected for drink-driving," AAMI state manager Ian Badger said.



I am curious to know what time period would be involved for drugs to be detected in the blood? For example what would happen if someone had either a pill or meth, on a night out, at 2am, then drove home at 6am? I always thought that drugs could be detected in the body for a few days after the event.
 
^ Yeah, that's the thing - metabolites of certain drugs can be detected in your system LONG after the subjective effects have worn off. That's why drug testing drivers is such a contentious issue in some people's eyes, because there's no set 'legal limits' for illicit drugs. This has been mentioned each time there are articles about blood testing, saliva testing and breath testing drivers for drugs.

On a related note I got a letter from Monash University yesterday which started by saying "... Did you know that Monash University imports cannabis cigarettes?" and went on to describe how the university is conducting drug-levels vs. driving impairment research and so on. Now by this time I was thinking to myself 'sweeet they must need some one experienced to help out' ;) but no, the next paragraph said that important research such as this needs funding, and would I consider donating money... but it was interesting anyway. I gather they're trying to work out what an 'acceptable THC limit' might be for operating a car.

BigTrancer :)
 
Have you ever tried to drive a lab rat when you're stoned? It's not as easy as you might think...

BT ;)
 
^^^=D No I wouldn't imagine it is too easy, I have enough trouble with the playstation when I'm stoned. Now that would be an interesting blood test, operating video games while on drugs.
 
Yeah, I have friends who are participating in the study. They are getting payed to get high and drink and play computer games (driving simulations). The doses they are using are apparently very standardized so they are not giving out big driping buds etc.
 
Well...

I actually have to say that I'm in support of this idea in theory, as I have always been against the idea of driving while under the influence of ANY drug. That said, I'll be interested to see if they will ever be able to develop a conclusive test that proves someone is under the influence of LSD. Besides handing them a circle of cardboard with "Intense Loop" on it and seeing if they flip. The point BT made about metabolites is also important, given that some drugs (cannabis for one) are detectable in your system for a LONG time after you cease being intoxicated (approximately a month) could mean that one could be picked up for driving UTI while not being impaired or under the influence at all.

I recall reading an article in NewScientist a long time ago, probably close to a year or a year and a half ago that covered the increase in cannabis intoxicated driving in the UK, and some studies had been done on the impairment of Cannabis intoxicated drivers. They concluded that one joint corresponded ROUGHLY with the .05 legal blood alcohol limit. But of course due to mixing with other stuff, and differing strengths in different strains of Cannabis, it would be very hit and miss whether that was correct.

-plaz out-
 
i dunno what weed they use over in the UK but i get fairly toasted off one joint, far moreso than a 0.05 BAC reading :)
 
civil liberties??

Police say there is an emerging problem with drug-driving which they believe is increasing in line with the surge in amphetamine use in SA
forgive me if i scoff at BULLSHIT statments like this!

1) amphetmines are a stimulant. i fail to see how a stimulant, something that increases alertness, can possibly (directly) result in diminished driving ability.

2) in support of this, the US Air Force, and many other similar organisations, both past and present, promoted the use of stimulants. (think Vietnam war, think US bombers in Afghanistan and Iraq). JFK was a tweaker ffs!

3) some people actually ingest pharmaceutical amphetamines for medicinal purposes (eg Adderal/Dex/Ritalin). how do they plan on distinguishing clandestine from pharmaceutical produced chemicals? what if you are under the influence of both at the same time, which one is the dominant one?

pfffftttt....
 
This is FUCKED.

What do they think we are... their fucking livestock or something? I know about a thousand people with a fear of needles... to some this would be like someone with a fear of heights being forced to skydive.

I'm sick of this "everyone's guilty... some just havent been found out yet" attitude from the cops.

When they come up with a non invasive method and real acceptable limits of the drugs they're testing for, then they can go for it as far as im concerned... people shouldnt be driving when they're fucked up.

But hey... I bet it'll give many of them something else to do to abuse their positions to "fix up" the rest of us... they must be getting sick of the vehicle defect notices.

Stand up for your dignity.


/vent
 
thanks for acknowledging the point of fear of needles jakoz... i am one of these people.. i fear them for no apparent reason, but whenever i have a blood test done i pass out as soon as the needle is in me.
this is a reason i dont and never will inject.
but more to the point, if driving and asked for i blood test by the cops i would tell them to get fucked in a more respectable fashion whether UTI of not.
if however a non invasive method is found i still wouldn't want to be tested but would obviously have to have it done

:p
 
Re: civil liberties??

Timmmmmy said:
forgive me if i scoff at BULLSHIT statments like this!

1) amphetmines are a stimulant. i fail to see how a stimulant, something that increases alertness, can possibly (directly) result in diminished driving ability.

Stimulants in recreational doses do impair abilities. Can you honestly say that your perception is not altered while experiencing the peak of meth or mdxa? I cannot. Amphetamines like these DO impair driving ability to varying degrees. Perhaps the part of the morning where you're not noticeably peaking anymore, but are still kept awake? Then you have the very real possiblity of "crashing" ie, falling asleep at the wheel due to the sudden departure of the stimulant effects..

Sure the US Airforce have used amphetamines to help their pilots be more alert/fly longer missions. However, there have been many studies to suggest that this practice, while carefully dose monitored, causes more problems than it aids. Think friendly fire, taking more authority on than the pilot has (such as deciding to fire at the enemy before being given the go ahead). Their perception has been altered.

I do not in any way support the idea of being able to conduct "random" or "reasonable suspicion" type blood tests on anyone, for the reasons already stated in this thread.

I do however believe there is a big need to address the issue of driving UTI of rec. drugs... unfortunately like drink driving, there are always going to be people who keep doing it regardless of known dangers.

I'm quite interested in nutting this issue out... Do people think that an education type campaign would be effective in addressing the issue? Could it be addressed within the (currently crappy) illicit drug campaign? Other ideas?
 
Can you honestly say that your perception is not altered while experiencing the peak of meth
altered perception is not the issue here, diminished capacity is.

sorry to be stubborn but i stand by my comments.
 
Ok, so diminished capacity.

From personal experience, my perception of time, speed and depth are affected when I use stimulant drugs at recreational doses. I am by no means a heavy user. However, from experience of sitting in both the passenger seat and the driver's seat I know that these changes in perception affect my capacity to drive safely.

Altered perception IS the issue here, as you need perception to drive: correct perception of depth, speed and you need to be aware of the dimensions and restraints of the physical world. My point is that sometimes all the focusing in the world will not give you an accurate perception of those things which are necessary to drive safely. In addition to which, the euphoria or high experienced may effect a change in confidence which can make one drive like a prick ;)
 
Driving a car and getting home normally is possibly easy enough on stimulants, or certain low levels of drugs - but it's not safe and it's not legal.

Concentrating on maintaining driving speed, position in the lane, and peripheral awareness on what's going on outside the car are all affected by different drugs in different ways. Generally high doses of amphetamines and MDMA result in increased driving speed, without affecting lane keeping; however, peripheral concentration is impaired. In combination with alcohol and/or THC, these problems are exacerbated. Interestingly, low to moderate doses of THC tend to reduce driving speed and improve lane keeping ability, particularly if the dose was taken some time before driving. However this improvement is reversed if combined with alcohol or other drugs.

Reference: http://www.vv.se/traf_sak/t2000/607.pdf

Driving in general is quite an easy thing to do, to the point where driving can actually become a subconscious function. You can daydream, play music, talk to people, think about your day, and still get places. Where the difficulty comes in is not your driving per se, but responding to the actions of other drivers. You can be the best driver in the world but you can't bank on some retard doing what you'd do in the same situation. Not everyone will brake at the sign of danger, not everyone will swerve to miss you even if there's heaps of space to spare and you're stationary, and you can't count on someone to not be asleep or on drugs themselves. That's where the concentration, and reflexes, come into play.

Don't trust yourself to be able to account for someone else's stupidity or negligence when you're on drugs. Of course, if the road looks like this, you're fucked in no uncertain terms anyway.

Tr004440.jpg


BigTrancer :)
 
^^Ditto.... love your work BT :D



Yep, I agree with people who are fucked up in any way (including sleep dep!) not being allowed to drive.


But I do not agree with the method. If they could, they would be stripsearching you by the roadside, or conducting mass cavity searches inside nightclubs and events. The only thing stopping them is your dignity. Once you show youre willing to give that up, it is only a formality away.
 
aGREE bIGtRANCER. your post is most informed and true to all points.

like anyone can drive well when peaking on a couple good pills with all the double vision etc... stimulant my arse. your meat on the road at the point.

i did see a driving study done in mix mag done tho with coke, weed, pills, speed, and alcohol used and documented...... and it found that you prolly drive the best under the influence of weed. in compasison to all the others id aggree i can function a car quite w3ell when stoned to the point of perfection... or so is seems at the time.
 
if your driving the car and the road looks like the PIC BigTrancer put up your a Bloody IDiot!

re:TAC
 
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