Benzos New on Lorazepam

[Man67]

The

@Man67

Okay, I read through your replies on this thread. I wasn't aware that you had been taking "sleeping pills". I assume you're talking about Z-Drugs like Zolpidem (Ambien)? There are several, but they all begin with a Z, hence the name.

These drugs are fairly cross-tolerant with other sedative-hypnotic drugs like Alcohol, Barbiturates or in your case, Benzodiazepines. I'm not a pharmacist and my knowledge is basic, but I'm aware that this cross-tolerance has been fairly well-established. For years, I've operated thinking that these are basically short-acting, extremely hypnotic Benzodiazepines. I don't feel I'm far off in this description despite my lack of knowledge.

This explains some things. As we talked about, 5mg Lorazepam (Ativan) per day is nothing crazy, but it's right in the middle. Most people would feel noticeably strange/fucked up taking that dosage for the first time. Even if not fucked up, you'd know you were sedated and I believe this feeling would be strong and undeniable.

I'm sorry to hear about the depression. This is a recorded possible symptom for some with Benzodiazepines. @shugenja made a good point though. It's possible that other Benzodiazepines might be more helpful for you. However, I really don't think it's in your best interest to continue with these drugs. I'm not saying stop taking them immediately, but I think you should consider it. Your description of going from 1 to 3 pills is pretty textbook and once the first real tolerance episode strikes, it's a major fork in the road for folks in which they can stop or they can continue, experiencing continuing diminishing returns, escalating dosages and more side effects.

Just a quick update about Lorazepam (Ativan). I was taking it just for 2 weeks but I am still recovering from side effects. It seems that it blocked all other medication and made me clinically depressed. I started taking Zoloft and after 3 weeks still waiting for some relief. Confusion, tinnitus, apathy, social phobia....... The list is endless. 100mg of Amitriptyline at night, 6mg Suboxone, 50mg Zoloft and I still feel helpless and without any hope. If somebody had similar experience with Lorazepam please give me a tip what to do.

 

[AlsoTapered]

Lorazepam is one of the safest 'high potency' benzodiazepines. It has no active metabolites (so it won't accumulate like most benzos). I believe it's commonly used in hospitals because it's dose/response curve isn't altered by impaired hepatic function an so forth. The doctor really thought about this.

Now I see L-Lorazepam Acetate (a chiral prodrug) is now in use. I suspect it may only be used in IV form but it will essentially double the TI which is impressive (given that lorazepam already has a huge TI).

 

[Man67]

Lorazepam is one of the safest 'high potency' benzodiazepines. It has no active metabolites (so it won't accumulate like most benzos). I believe it's commonly used in hospitals because it's dose/response curve isn't altered by impaired hepatic function an so forth. The doctor really thought about this.

Now I see L-Lorazepam Acetate (a chiral prodrug) is now in use. I suspect it may only be used in IV form but it will essentially double the TI which is impressive (given that lorazepam already has a huge TI).

For some reason Lorazepam made me feel all the side effects of Amitriptyline which I take for the last 10 years. I really don't understand what happened because I didn't change anything except being on Ativan for just 2 weeks.

 

[emkee_reinvented]

Mate l don't wonna scare you but my experience with Seroquel was horrible. I am usually tolerant to all kinds of pills and have to take more then it says on the pack. Long time ago my psychiatrist prescribed me Seroquel. I took just one pill and quit. I slept around 15 hours and after that was hangover for the whole next day. I am not saying that the same thing will happen to you. Just be careful and start with the lowest dose. Good luck.

My experience was quite the opposit. When they prescribed these to me 'off label use' for sleep. Hesistant to give out a benzo it had no effect whatsoever. Stayed wide awake on 25 mg, considering the side effects i gave em to someone else who apperently loves them.

 

[Man67]

My experience was quite the opposit. When they prescribed these to me 'off label use' for sleep. Hesistant to give out a benzo it had no effect whatsoever. Stayed wide awake on 25 mg, considering the side effects i gave em to someone else who apperently loves them.

I was on 150mg for 10 years and they helped me sleep like a baby. Suddenly they started to make me suicidal, much more depressed and I am loosing my memory. At the moment I am trying to tapper them down by reducing dose by 25mg p/w. I am on 75mg at the moment and I feel much better but I can't sleep at all. I really don't know what to do as I wait for the appointment with my Dr. in 3 weeks time? Any advice is greatly appreciated.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Hey @Man67

You're experience with Benzodiazepines, in this case Lorazepam (Ativan) is not unusual. The majority of people who take Benzodiazepines will not report depressive (mood) symptoms as the primary characteristic. It does happen though. Most people who take a Benzodiazepine will experience sedation, blunting of emotions and a reduction of anxiety.

There are some who experience these drugs differently. For instance, some will become extremely hyper or enraged after taking Benzodiazepines. Likewise, although these symptoms do not constitute the majority of cases, experiencing symptoms of depression are pretty well-documented in even acute cases.

 

[Man67]

Hey @Man67

You're experience with Benzodiazepines, in this case Lorazepam (Ativan) is not unusual. The majority of people who take Benzodiazepines will not report depressive (mood) symptoms as the primary characteristic. It does happen though. Most people who take a Benzodiazepine will experience sedation, blunting of emotions and a reduction of anxiety.

There are some who experience these drugs differently. For instance, some will become extremely hyper or enraged after taking Benzodiazepines. Likewise, although these symptoms do not constitute the majority of cases, experiencing symptoms of depression are pretty well-documented in even acute cases.

Thanks a lot mate, but I am still not sure what happened? I stopped taking Ativan after only 2 weeks but a month later I am still not OK. Got back to my old benzo (Bromazepam) which l was taking occasionally for the last 10 years. Most side effects disappeared but ringing in the ears (tinnitus) is still very loud.

 

[Keif' Richards]

Thanks a lot mate, but I am still not sure what happened? I stopped taking Ativan after only 2 weeks but a month later I am still not OK. Got back to my old benzo (Bromazepam) which l was taking occasionally for the last 10 years. Most side effects disappeared but ringing in the ears (tinnitus) is still very loud.

I know this sucks to hear. Benzodiazepine withdrawal is not a short or easy process. It can take months or even year(s) to be truly "right" again. I don't want to scare people away from the idea of getting off Benzo's, but at the same time, I think it can be detrimental to one's success to have an inaccurate view on the situation.

I don't believe your condition will take years to resolve. If you decided to quit using Benzodiazepines, I bet you could be feeling great at the 3 month mark at most.

What you don't want to do is cycle on and off repeatedly. This brings us to the Kindling Effect, a phenomenon in which each time a person becomes dependent, withdraws and continues with that cycle, each phase of dependency will come on faster and be more severe during withdrawal. For instance, I was a big drinker when I was young and experienced the Kindling Effect. First, it took me several weeks of daily, constant drinking (~25-30 drinks per day) before I woke up for the first time in withdrawal.

I repeated this cycle over and over; going to detox, getting out, drinking myself silly. My point is, if I were to start drinking today, 72hrs or so of constant consumption will provoke a withdrawal syndrome every bit as intense as the others. The phenomenon is mostly discussed in relation to Alcohol or other sedative/hypnotic drugs like Benzodiazepines/Barbiturates but the idea seems to apply to essentially every drug that a person can become dependent upon.

My best advice would be not to continue using Benzodiazepines, as they seem to already be taking their toll. I know that's hard. If this is not possible, I would advise doing your best to limit erratic dosing regimens.

 

[Man67]

I know this sucks to hear. Benzodiazepine withdrawal is not a short or easy process. It can take months or even year(s) to be truly "right" again. I don't want to scare people away from the idea of getting off Benzo's, but at the same time, I think it can be detrimental to one's success to have an inaccurate view on the situation.

I don't believe your condition will take years to resolve. If you decided to quit using Benzodiazepines, I bet you could be feeling great at the 3 month mark at most.

What you don't want to do is cycle on and off repeatedly. This brings us to the Kindling Effect, a phenomenon in which each time a person becomes dependent, withdraws and continues with that cycle, each phase of dependency will come on faster and be more severe during withdrawal. For instance, I was a big drinker when I was young and experienced the Kindling Effect. First, it took me several weeks of daily, constant drinking (~25-30 drinks per day) before I woke up for the first time in withdrawal.

I repeated this cycle over and over; going to detox, getting out, drinking myself silly. My point is, if I were to start drinking today, 72hrs or so of constant consumption will provoke a withdrawal syndrome every bit as intense as the others. The phenomenon is mostly discussed in relation to Alcohol or other sedative/hypnotic drugs like Benzodiazepines/Barbiturates but the idea seems to apply to essentially every drug that a person can become dependent upon.

My best advice would be not to continue using Benzodiazepines, as they seem to already be taking their toll. I know that's hard. If this is not possible, I would advise doing your best to limit erratic dosing regimens.

The main problem is that l am tapering 2 medication at the moment. Amitriptyline and Suboxone. Benzo(3mg) is helping tremendously with the side effects. I even manage to have 3-4 hours of sleep. When I am done with tapering, benzo will become just occasional treat to save others from myself. Thanks for the tip mate.

 

[WellTram]

I am on tramadol and benzos for 8 years..ONLY benzo i can feel Is alprazolam..tramadol with benzo Is great treatment of depresiion and anxiety but withdrawals from tram And alprazolam Are crazy..

 

[AlsoTapered]

I am on tramadol and benzos for 8 years..ONLY benzo i can feel Is alprazolam..tramadol with benzo Is great treatment of depresiion and anxiety but withdrawals from tram And alprazolam Are crazy..

The mixture might have it's own set of specific issues. Both drugs have antidepressant and anxiolytic properties. You might ask your doctor to substitute amitriptyline for the alprazolam. Amitriptyline is an antidepressant with anxiolytic properties. It's interaction with tramadol would be my concern, but your doctor should know.

Amitriptyline and even better chloripramine are the most effective antidepressants by a large margin. The reason they are not the most commonly used is that they are more toxic in overdose. If you were to become so depressed that you took 28 days of Prozac (for example), you would be ill, but 28 doses of amitriptyline or chloripramine would be fatal...

That said, a 28 day supply of tramadol is enough to end it all. So be careful. I'm not convinced that tramadol for depression is a good idea...

 

[WellTram]

The mixture might have it's own set of specific issues. Both drugs have antidepressant and anxiolytic properties. You might ask your doctor to substitute amitriptyline for the alprazolam. Amitriptyline is an antidepressant with anxiolytic properties. It's interaction with tramadol would be my concern, but your doctor should know.

Amitriptyline and even better chloripramine are the most effective antidepressants by a large margin. The reason they are not the most commonly used is that they are more toxic in overdose. If you were to become so depressed that you took 28 days of Prozac (for example), you would be ill, but 28 doses of amitriptyline or chloripramine would be fatal...

That said, a 28 day supply of tramadol is enough to end it all. So be careful. I'm not convinced that tramadol for depression is a good idea...

I take vortioxetine and it Is great antidepressant but my body Is so used to have tramadol All the time, that wd Is worse than WD from smoking pure powder hydromorphone so i ak used to be nonstop high on tramadol.

 

[AlsoTapered]

Vortioxetine - there is nothing as great as a drug whose action isn't understood. BUT if it works, it likely safer than tramadol.

In the UK we had a minor crisis over tramadol with people thinking they could simply use it like codeine.

ODMT seems safer and tapentadol better for depression.

Somebody somewhere is making FODMT which is quite potent. I mean M potent.

 

[Dreamflyer]

The amount of Lorazepam that you're taking seems fine, but be aware that you can build up a tolerance VERY quickly. I started on 2mg a day several years ago, and now I can take 16mg at once (no exaggeration) without even feeling it.

Be careful, my friend!

 

[SpiralusSancti]

For some reason Lorazepam made me feel all the side effects of Amitriptyline which I take for the last 10 years. I really don't understand what happened because I didn't change anything except being on Ativan for just 2 weeks.

You forgot that you stopped bromazepam

If I was you I would get diazepam and used it at 5 - 10mg for a few weeks (and wouldn’t lower bupe dose during that time) and than back to bromazepam if diazepam doesn’t work fine

As much as I, like many people in this thread am against regular benzo use, your case needs different approach. As you have real PTSD (as from war and not some bs) if benzos help you, that’s great. I know person who has nitrazepam (and some other things too) prescribed for 25 years and as he’s also a war veteran with PTSD getting him to feel good from some herbs or supplements is a silly idea

 

[Man67]

You forgot that you stopped bromazepam

If I was you I would get diazepam and used it at 5 - 10mg for a few weeks (and wouldn’t lower bupe dose during that time) and than back to bromazepam if diazepam doesn’t work fine

As much as I, like many people in this thread am against regular benzo use, your case needs different approach. As you have real PTSD (as from war and not some bs) if benzos help you, that’s great. I know person who has nitrazepam (and some other things too) prescribed for 25 years and as he’s also a war veteran with PTSD getting him to feel good from some herbs or supplements is a silly idea

Thanks a lot mate I really appreciate your support. You are 100 % right and as the old proverb says: "Don't fix something that is not broken". I am back on Bromazepam but this time only half a pill (3mg) just before bed time. I'v already noticed some improvement but it will take some time to get back to normal. Getting on Diazepam makes sense but I am too exhausted to try anything new. Cheers!

 

[SpiralusSancti]

Well keep dosage at 3mg long enough and at some point 6mg will work fine again.

Glad you’re better