Misc NEW Mood enhancer stack PEA,L-DOPA, 5-HTP,Synephrine, E.T.C.

[Dreamon17]

I have recently ordered a variety of supplement in the hopes they would increase my energy, overall motivation, and weight loss.



My ideal dosage of each are:
25mg of synephrine
500mg of PEA(phenylethylamine)
500mg of L-DOPA
250mg of caffiene
300mg of raspberry ketones
400 mg of ECGC(from green tea extract)
150mg of hordenine
300 mg of 5-HTP
500mg of caspien
I would take this once a day(probably in the morning)

I was wondering if anybody knows of any major interactions between these or if anybody has used a similar stacks. I know that the ecgc will help the l dopa and the 5-HTP reach the brain. The hordenine should selectively inhibit Mao-B, therefore letting the PEA reach the brain. The caffiene should go well with the hordenine. Also the synephrine should help with appetite suppression and energy.

Does anybody have a similar stack they take or have any experience with these supplement by themselves? Any comments or advice would be appreciated.

THANKS!!!

 

[sekio]

The caffeine will do more than anything else in that "blend". 250mg is a lot for most people to start on.

Synephrine - weak ephedrine-type stimulant, raises blood pressre. 25mg is a comparatively low dose.
PEA - very short lived or inactive depending on personal physiology, mostly. You have a better chance taking a large dose on an empty stomach, but don't expect very much, maybe 15-30 mins of some stimulation.
L-DOPA, 5-HTP - if you eat a protien rich diet these will do nothing, otherwise they will be converted mostly to serotonin and dopamine *outside* the BBB. They don't hurt, though, because a lot of people seem to be deficient in their diets anyway.
Raspberry ketone(s) - almost certainly synthetic. More effective as a flavour and fragrance than anything else.

Although products containing this compound are marketed for weight loss, there is no clinical evidence for this effect in humans.

EGCG (epigallocachetin gallate) - Flavonoid polyphenol, antioxidant, found in tea.
Hordenine - N,N-dimethyltyramine, almost certainly broken down in the gut by MAO, essentially inactive orally in man.
Caspien(?) - did you mean capsacin? if you did, that will make your entire digestive tract absolutely explode in pain if you have to take a dump.

The major worry I would have is taking too much caffeine. 250mg is enough to make some people really, really wired, if they don't regularly use caffeine already. I would say a better maximum is 150mg. (But you know your body better than random internet strangers)

As far as I know the EGCG does not promote central accumulation of L-DOPA or 5-HTP any more than anything else. You need peripheral amino acid decarboxylase inhibitors (e.g. carbidopa), which are generally restricted to treating Alzheimers. Not something you need to play with, because they can cause very fucked up side effects (dyskinesia, serotonin syndrome etc)

Hordenine is also, as far as I can see, not a very effective MAO inhibitor. It is inactive in humans and animals unless injected, and has such a poor inhibitory effect on MAO-B that it is not worth worrying about.

My advice:

• ditch the raspberry ketones and hordenine, and possibly the synephrine too (they are essentially inactive - synephrine is more effective at raising blood pressure than anything else)
  
• change the L-DOPA to tyrosine or phenylalanine (your body regulates how much DOPA it needs by converting what it needs from tyrosine) - DOPA supplementation can cause some strange side effects due to higher levels of peripheral dopamine, especially if you use it chronically.
  
• maybe change the caffeine dose
  
• consider how effective the PEA actually is as a stimulant. For many people it just isn't worth it.

 

[Dreamon17]

"Green tea polyphenols: novel irreversible inhibitors of dopa decarboxylase.
Bertoldi M, Gonsalvi M, Voltattorni CB.
Source
Dipartimento di Scienze Neurologiche e della Visione, Sezione di Chimica Biologica, Facoltà di Medicina e Chirurgia, Università degli Studi di Verona, Strada Le Grazie, 8, Verona, 37134, Italy.
Abstract
The green tea gallocatechins, (-)-epigallocatechin-3-O-gallate (EGCG), and (-)-epigallocatechin (EGC) were found to be inhibitors of Dopa decarboxylase (DDC). EGCG and EGC inactivate the enzyme in both a time- and concentration-dependent manner and exhibit saturation of the rate of inactivation at high concentrations, with efficiency of inactivation values (k(inact)/K(i)) of 868 and 1511 M(-1) min(-1), respectively. In contrast, gallic acid behaves as a weak inhibitor of DDC. Protection against inactivation by EGCG and EGC was observed in the presence of the active site-directed inhibitor D-Dopa. Either EGCG or EGC induce changes in the absorbance and CD bands of the visible spectrum of enzyme-bound PLP. Taken together, these findings indicate the active site nature of the interaction of DDC with both polyphenols. On the basis of the properties of the EGCG-inactivated enzyme, it can be suggested that inactivation could be ascribed to a covalent modification of not yet identified residue(s) of the active site of DDC.
Copyright 2001 Academic Press."


I also think its a comt inhibitor.if so it would be worth a try. Also isn't hordenine specifically used in combo with PEA maybe I was mistaken. Thanks for your reply!

P.S I will probably reduce the caffiene a bit

 

[sekio]

Just because its an inhibitor of the enzyme in a test tube doesn't mean it's active in humans for the same purpose. the concentrations they use are fairly high and given the poor pharmacokinetics of EGCG I doubt it would build to levels that would inhibit DDC significantly.

(Same as Rhodiola extracts at MAO enzymes - they are OK inhibitors in vitro, but because they are both rapidly metabolised, poorly absorbed, and distributed throughout your body unevenly, turns out they are mediocre at best in practice.)

 

[Dreamon17]

I've already ordered all of these :/. Guess I should have post here first either way I'll let you know how it works for me.