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New and emergent religions vs Christian dogmatism

maniquan

maniquan

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Mar 2, 2013
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Hollywood, Florida
Hey guys, I thought this might be an interesting topic to share and discuss on p&s. If there is one that is too similar please inform me because I haven't really browsed much lately.

I was reading recently about the Church of SubGenius lately as a result of some other research I was doing on the social underground and I found it very fascinating to say the least. I've always been eager to learn about not only the history of our religious/spiritual heritage but also the cultural circumstances that go into shaping and forming the belief systems and cosmologies that eventually evolve into religious institutions. I find the SubGenius church so cool because it epitomizes the modern day cultural climate. They use a queer form of sarcastic cultural icon worship to both venerate and degrade religious and social institutions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subgenius This is the link to their wikipedia entry if you have no heard of them. This doesn't have to be limited to conversation about SubGenius or anything, just general convo about your experience with original spiritual/religious groups or experiences.
 
maniquan said:
Hey guys, I thought this might be an interesting topic to share and discuss on p&s. If there is one that is too similar please inform me because I haven't really browsed much lately.

I was reading recently about the Church of SubGenius lately as a result of some other research I was doing on the social underground and I found it very fascinating to say the least. I've always been eager to learn about not only the history of our religious/spiritual heritage but also the cultural circumstances that go into shaping and forming the belief systems and cosmologies that eventually evolve into religious institutions. I find the SubGenius church so cool because it epitomizes the modern day cultural climate. They use a queer form of sarcastic cultural icon worship to both venerate and degrade religious and social institutions.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Subgenius This is the link to their wikipedia entry if you have no heard of them. This doesn't have to be limited to conversation about SubGenius or anything, just general convo about your experience with original spiritual/religious groups or experiences.
Click to expand...

Wow, interesting religious beliefs when it comes to SubGenius. I think that our current cultural framework is actually going to result in the birth of some new spiritual views and an update to already established religious/spiritual to make them more culturally relevant to the present time. FYI, the generation I belong to, The Millenials, are actually the least "religious" generation to date. Not to say that the majority of Millenials don't believe in God,but they do believe in some form of Higher Power just do not claim any specific belief.

I personally like the thought of forming a Spiritual belief system based on Taoism and Christianity(I have actually posted a thread on this subject in P&S). I am sure this is not a new idea, but how does one go about actually creating a Spiritual belief system that catches on? Also,anyone else have any interesting ideas working in the current framework of established Spiritual/religion?

Pariahprose
 
Hey Pariahprose, I don't have time tonight but i just wanted to say that although I haven't yet read your taoism/christianity thread I plan to and will let you know what I think. I feel like our generation is not necessarily "un-spiritual" but certainly less dogmatic than our predecessors. In the face of scientific advancement and knowledge it has become all but impossible to cling to the gods and precepts set out in some of our religious forefathers, however the spiritual impulse in man is still as strong as ever...if not stronger. Distance and speed have changed our awareness as humans immeasurably in the past 100 years. I think of it from a physics standpoint. Our interactions are getting progressively more condensed and sped up. I think that as we continue to link up with others our age (and any age really) around the world from all different cultures, ethnic groups, religions and belief systems, there will be no choice but to come to an understanding about our common humanity. It is mostly through fear of the unknown that bias, prejudices and hate can really thrive and unless you walk around with your eyes closed, in this age you can't help but see through the institutional bullshit that separates us. I"ll write more later but ya dude I'll read your thread in the A.M. before work.
 
The inherent issue here as far as Christianity goes is they leave no room for improvement. Anyone or anything that ever comes to try to tell them something different to the current Christianity is there to 'test their faith' and no one may edit or add on to the bible.
 
It will be a beautiful day when there are no more new religions, and people proceed to quit demanding that meaning in life be spoon-fed to them, and instead create it for themselves. I doubt that will ever happen as long as the "God of the Gaps" argument continues to troll gullible minds.
 
I think we can have religion without dogmatism. The spiritual impulse in man must be preserved and cultivated, even the sternest rationalist understands that this is a basic need of mankind. My thinking on this subject has evolved to some degree. I'm not sure that any institutional religion or spiritual practice can save us anymore from the multiple impending world crises. A complete change in consciousness is needed. We must truly change our value systems to their core is we hope to create a sustainable world for ourselves. It's not so much a "god" that we need..at least not one who exists outside creation. That in itself is I think a fundamental problem of the western world. We see our god, and consequently ourselves as separate from all other creation creating a specially odious sort of neurosis. I'm not sure if any of you are into H.G. Wells but his books "The Open Conspiracy" and "New World Order" are both excellent books that talk rather extensively about the topics were discussing in here.
 
All religions and churches are ultimately koolaid group-think. As long as there is dogma there will be rules, and as long as there are rules there will be people telling you what to think and believe. As long as there is someone wanting to be a leader I guess there will be sheep willing to follow.

A fool and his money are soon parted.
 
I think as humans there will come a point when a certain ethical code will have to be accepted and practiced (within limits) for us to survive. As far as religion. I feel we should all practice our own form of experiential spiritualism. I think these experiences can be independent of a universal, secular ethic.
 
Again, I think we need to look at the relevant underpinnings.
What is religion? What is spirituality? What is their dynamic interrelation?
Can one exercise atheist spirituality? What is religion without spirituality? Can there be atheist religious practice?

ebola
 
Apostacious said:
It will be a beautiful day when there are no more new religions, and people proceed to quit demanding that meaning in life be spoon-fed to them, and instead create it for themselves. I doubt that will ever happen as long as the "God of the Gaps" argument continues to troll gullible minds.
Click to expand...

Can you not have an old religion made new by interpretation? Isn't being spoon-fed similar to looking at a piece of art and then asking for its interpretation rather than giving it your own? Can you not give that same piece of art a separate interpretation which the artist did not intend but nevertheless give the art a new dimension? In this scenario who then is gullible? I would say the person who asks for the interpretation believing that there is no gap between that, piece of art, and himself/herself.

@ebola
Religion is art in movement. Spirituality is something I couldn't define. For me their interrelation is interpretation. As an atheist I do not exercise spirituality because I can't grasp it. However as an atheist I believe in Spirit. Religion without spirituality from what I may understand would be blindness. Something without mystery, something without room to expand. Atheists have religious practice. Which is simply founded upon debunking religion and saying the higher power is rationalism and self. Blindness and question-less mystery.

On the cross Christ became an atheist, through the cross an atheist can be Christ(ian)
"The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting. It has been found difficult; and left untried." Chesterton.
 
I think the idea of religion is flawed. I think that with our feeble human minds any attempt to organize spirituality will destroy it, and prevent forming new ideas or changing of old ones.

Also, anything that is monotheistic, IMHO, is retarded, and is the sort of thing that ends up with "my god says love everyone, so does yours, but yours is a different color, so I declare war on you and all your people"

99% of religions endorse the idea :" I am right, you are wrong." Therefore I think religion is wrong

Ironic eh?
 
^sort of the whole thing, IMHO if you believe your approach is the whole truth and nothing but the truth, you're probably wrong. So that's pretty "ironic" or I guess backwards sorta.

I justify it to myself by saying basically "monotheistic old school like christianty, Judaism, Islam, etc have to be mostly wrong, at least the modern day Santa Claus type stories they spin, but since I don't pretend to know what IS really "right" or what really is going on, I'm not like them" which is kinda ironic too

Hard to articulate, but I like to eliminate what I think is impossible, and keep very broad horizons to what could be possible, again, ironic/hypocritical

I don't think most religions try to separate truth from error, at least most major ones, they just take old stories and build on them. Eastern religions are sort of a different story, they do have lots of definite rules and such, but much less... Santa-Claus-y.... More like spiritual guidelines and ideas, rather than saying you go to an actual pit of fire if you don't read this book every weekend, and go to paradise if you follow every single rule
 
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