Need some advice, please.

[VastEmpty]

Hello Bluelight and especially the Sober Living "community" (not to sound cheesy - but that's what my weeks of reading thread after thread has lead me to believe. This forum is like a community of sorts, and I'm so hoping I have a place here. But I digress...)!

This is my first post, so I will give you a bit of background. I have an autoimmune condition that causes chronic pain. I have been using opiates for about 9 years - most of those years I've been taking 10 mg oxycodones. Probably about 6-7 of those 9 have been daily use. I started at 25 mgs a day and have worked my way up to about 80 mgs a day. I have a strong desire to quit these goddamn opiates.

Late last year I tried cold turkey and made it 9 days. Earlier this year I did the same thing and made it 42 days (I feel sick typing that. I cannot believe I gave up 42-feel-like-I-want-to-die-days!!). My first two attempts were unsuccessful and I absolutely know what went wrong both times. I'm learning from my mistakes but they are really painful lessons. I don't know if I can handle another cold turkey.

I'm doing a lot of things differently this time, which I will have plenty of time to post about going forward. Which leads me to my question, and what I need advice about.

Im currently at 80mgs of oxycodone a day. My dosage schedule is as follows - approx. 7:00 a.m. (Or when I wake up - my work schedule is very erratic) - 10 mgs. Most days (80% of them) I take another 10 mgs at 10:00 a.m. Then between noon and 1:00 p.m. I will take another 10 mgs. Then when I get off work - which varies sometimes, but not as often as my start times - at about 5:00 p.m. when I take an embarrassing 50 mgs. I'm pretty strict about times and dosages. The only one that varies much is the morning dose due to my schedule.

My current plan is to detox in late October of this year. I plan to try to taper, but I'm not a good taper-er. So assuming I'm still at 80 mgs when I quit, I have one main question. I know that last dose of the day is really fucking big - before I quit, should I start to space that out more? Or is it a good thing to have 12+ hours in between doses?

I would really appreciate anyone's advice on this. Or any advice for a fairly typical not good taper-er on getting down in dose to make those first few days of withdrawal less godawful? I have a fair amount of time to work on this (about three months), but please keep in mind that I work a demanding job. I will be taking leave from work in October to go through this upcoming acute phase - I can't do a real aggressive taper, work and withdrawals (even minor) don't mix for me.

Thank you you for reading and any advice you all have for me is greatly appreciated. I'm desperately in need of some support from people with more experience than I.

- VE

 

[Kittycat5]

Congrats on planning this. The leave from work is something I cannot recommend enough so kudos already. How long a leave we talking about, btw?

Regarding dosing and schedule. Well, it depends on your level of commitment and tolerance for unpleasantry. I too would never taper oxy. No way. Id just take it till its gone and thats when my quitting would begin. However, if you can muster up the discipline to taper with sweet, sweet oxy, you can and will save a lot of pain. Hell, start now. Drop 2.5mg a week or some small amount.

But, as I said, I and seemingly you, struggle with this. I dont think spacing it out on the last day helps. As long as you do quit and ride the wd out, does it matter? Not really in my book.

Do you have comfort meds to help the symptoms of wd or going straight cold turkey? There are plenty of things to help, of which I would be more than happy to give my opinion of the pros and cons of, if you let me know the details.

But either way, this can be done. Acute withdrawal sucks, but doesnt suck so bad that you lose sight of the finish line. Good luck, you got it.

 

[manboychef]

Welcome to the he-man woman hater's club....er I mean recovery. Just a little joke to put you at ease.

First things first: Learn this and live it. Recovery is a long process and if you try to lump every piece together all at once it can be extremely daunting.

I agree with a leave from work. Anything you can do to make yourself more comfortable is a step in the right direction. There are comfort meds that you can acquire while you are still using. l-theanine, magnessium, l-tyrosine, pedialyte, and ensure. The pedialyte and ensure are for keeping some nutrition and hydration while you are detoxing...not being hydrated will make your detox a lot harder (your urine will burn if it is super concentrated). Xanax is good for sleep...use it sparingly and only for sleep. These meds will make your detox a little easier.

I would suggest tapering the oxy, but most people cannot. If you cannot, this can lead to using more and more for a lot longer than plan. This may work if you have a person you can trust to be a pharmacist for you that you cannot manipulate. I was able to taper heroin before rehab, but I took some crazy precautions, and went right to rehab a few days after my last dose. I ever only brought the amount of money I needed to get what I needed for the day, and I gave the rest of my money to someone else. I also got a ride to the dopehole so that I couldn't source more. It was very hard, and didn't help the withdrawals as much as I thought.


You have made 42 days. That shows you are capable of stopping. I had hundreds of false starts just like that one. Do not look at it as failure, but an opportunity to learn what didn't work and then try something else. I am going to guess you did not have a plan for when withdrawal was over and PAWS hit. That is what usually gets people.

Keep me posted. You can PM me anytime you want.

 

[VastEmpty]

Thank you for the responses!

I am not sure exactly how long I am going to take off work - I have an appointment with my doctor on August 19th and I plan to get his input on how long he thinks I should take off. Right now, I am thinking between 3-4 weeks. I could not show up to work for 6 months and still be paid because I have leave and I rarely take it - but the place might implode without me...

I also plan to talk to my doctor about the comfort meds. I'll certainly look into picking up the ones on your list, MBC - are they all over the counter meds?

As for what happened the first two times - I've figured that out. The first time I ended up saying I had the flu and calling in to work for 7 of the 9 days. When I got back to work, I quickly learned that calling in sick was a disaster and I need to schedule my absences. When I got back to work after 9 days off, I was SWAMPED in work. I had to work 12-15 hour days for 3 weeks to catch up! So I quickly caved on that 10th day. I was through the worst of it physically, but I was exhausted still from wds and certainly couldn't do 12 hour days after first returning. I told myself I had no other choice but to go back to the pills and plan it better.

So I started taking oxy again and started planning, and planning and planning for my next J-Day (as I called it, jump-day). The second time around I was far more prepared. I had a friend quitting around the same time who was working with an addiction specialist - he got all the comfort meds - clonodine, seroquel (sp?), Xanax, etc. he got some extra for me so I had those. I had scheduled two weeks off of work and had a "backup" so that I wouldn't come back to work with an overwhelming pile of shit waiting for me this time. I had told my mother who is the one person in my life who I can always be honest with. I thought I was set.

Oh, MBC, I am SO prepared for PAWS. I do have a plan for them, which I will go into later. As I said, I'm a planner! So, I ended up making it 42 days and things were going as well as could be expected. I didn't feel 100% after the 42 days, but that's to be expected - and I honestly had very little cravings at that point. And then I stumbled upon a HUGE weakness. I hadn't talked to my doctor about my plan to quit, and I let someone in my life talk me into going to my doctor and getting a refill because I "might need it someday" and "you know how hard to come by those are!" So stupid. They aren't actually hard for me to come by because of my medical condition. But I did it...

Then I had a prescription for "just in case." Hahaha - we can see how well that turned out. Jesus, it is embarrassing that I let someone talk me into doing something so stupid. But alas, I can only learn from it and try again. So, as I said, this time I have fixed that issue. I will be proactively discussing this with my doctor so that he knows not to give me any opiate refills after my J-Day.

I went back and looked at my original question and realized I didn't articulate it well, let me try again. Considering my last dose of the day is 5x larger than every other dose I take throughout the day, do you think it is best for me to try and break up that 50 mg dose? Like take 30 mgs around 5:00 and then the other 20 mgs right before bed? Or is it preferable to have a large break in the doses - like the 12+ hours between my last dose of the night and the first dose of the morning the following day? If I broke that dose up into two doses, would that lessen my withdrawals because I'm lessening the maximum I'm taking at any given time?

Thanks again for the advice and support!

- VE

 

[VastEmpty]

Does anyone have any thoughts on my question? I just want to do as much as I can now to lessen the pain when I quit - and I'm not sure if that last does is a good idea or not...

- VE

 

[Captain.Heroin]

Go off of how you feel, play it one day at a time.

It's going to hurt and suck no matter what, and we're all wishing you the best through this.

 

[Jabberwocky]

You are a perfect candidate for a methadone clinic that handles people with chronic pain. I know the clinic is a bitch, but it will set you straight. Two years on the clinic and then boom you're done! Tapering down to 0mg was essentially painless, well, a lot less painful than I expected, and that by a long shot.

If there is anything I've learned, it is that none of us can do this thing alone. You my friend, just like me will need a LOT of help (Crone's Disease patient who just had part of his large intestine removed speaking here, this all just two months after getting off methadone, with no narcotics post surgery or desire to use and they used alternative anesthetics like ketamine and N2H, yes it easily can be done, if you just say yes, and let go, you'll do it, whatever that is

A methadone clinic that handles CP patients is what you need. I doubt you'll be able to create the kind of stability that a clinic can provide. It's a pita for sure, I spent as little time there as possible, and I volunteer there some still, but the daily dosing and never being sick can provide the background/backbone for the spiritual growth and personal evolution that is necessary to launch you into what is known as early recovery once you're off the 'done like me

 

[VastEmpty]

Thanks for the replies, guys.

TPD - I actually don't feel like I need to go to rehab. There is no medical necessity and I'm currently on a short acting opiate. I think that I would be making a mountain out of my very, very large rock if I were to get on a maintenance program. Besides, I've done this twice before, it has been largely successful because I've learned from each failure. Last time I made it 42 days and wasn't feeling awful but was certainly in the midst of PAWS. I wasn't craving and was doing really well mentally, just not physically. Then I made a mistake I was gonna make sooner or later, now I gotta move on and try again.

But honestly, I can do this. Thanks for the advice though. It is appreciated.

I do have a plan for my chronic pain. I can go into detail on that if anyone is interested. I'm not sure it will work, if I'm being honest. I'm about 90% sure it will.

I gotta run. But I'll check in as my journey goes.

- VE

 

[Jabberwocky]

Do whatcha gotta do! Do what works for you, and report back to us so WE can learn from YOU! Nothing would please me more. Seriously.

 

[VastEmpty]

Hello again -

im having a shitty time of it. I can't sleep and I have work in a few hours. Im exhausted and so fucking tired of not being able to actually sleep.

Just venting.

- VE

 

[manboychef]

Hey! Yes those meds are over the counter. 500mg of l-tryptophan mixed in with melatonin will help rest you...you may not sleep but you will feel rested.

You are going to need to change your friends if you don't want people talking you into anything. Part of your addiction is going to be insidious. If something triggers you, it is like planting a weed in your brain that eventually grows into active use. I had to stop being friends with a lot of people because I cannot save them, only myself, and my recovery is important to me and those that care about me. I want to say that if you truly want to recover from this you have to be willing to change everything in your life.

I would highly suggest discussing non-narcotic ways of controlling your pain with your GP. Generally they can find other medications or exercises that will help manage it. You have to be willing to be uncomfortable though. I have severe anxiety problems. I quit benzos because it was not sustainable for me to take them. I had to accept the fact that I probably will never feel 100% calm ever again. I'm okay with that. You may never be pain free...you will just have to do what you can and accept what you cannot do.

You can do this my friend! You are doing awesome so far, and I am in your corner!
-ManBoyChef
head chef at "Suk Mi Wok" chinese russian fusion restaurant.

 

[VastEmpty]

Hello again!

i had a question and figured I would just post it here, on my thread, instead creating a new one.

I am going to see my doctor on Monday. I'm trying to prepare for the appointment. I have expressed my desire to "make a change" to the medications I'm taking. I started talking about that with him about three months ago. This is all part of my master plan to quit as soon as I get time off work. Which I also mentioned to my doctor - so he does know that I'm taking time off coming up and that my "busy time" at work is coming to an end.

Here is what I have so far:

my plan is to be as honest with my doctor as possible, while still maintaining the relationship (to me this means not destroying any of the trust I have established over the 20 years I've been a patient. I've always been a "rule follower" - which has made me a damn fine patient!). I plan to tell him that over the past year, or year and a half, I have found it increasingly problematic to continue taking the oxycodone I am prescribed for chronic pain. It does help the pain, but briefly, and it feels like the pain killing properties are overshadowed by the negatives (of which I can name many, lack of energy, the need to take more to get the same painkiller effects, rebound pain, memory issues, etc.).

I've considered all of theses things and want to try quitting the meds and assessing my pain level from there. I also have ideas of natural ways to control the pain - because I have an autoimmune condition, most of what I do impacts how I feel. If I don't rest enough, I get a flare-up, if I don't eat right, I get a flare-up, if I don't take my medication just one day, I get a flare-up, etc. Over the years, I've become better at managing the rest of my lifestyle so that I minimize the amount of pain I'm in. I believe, with that, and some ideas I want to try that I'm not able to try on opiates, I'm in a good place to try and control my pain naturally.

I plan to do a very quick taper, very quick. I can taper for 5 days at most, before I need to quit altogether. I don't have a lot of flexibility because of my work and the amount of time I'm able to take off. Besides that, I've never had success tapering, and a long taper just isn't something I can do. I don't have the willpower to do anything long term. I need to be able to taper quickly, jump off, and be capable of working a demanding job within three weeks from the beginning of the taper. I think that's more than enough time to be successful - but I won't have weeks to slowly taper.

I plan to ask for the following medications:
something for sleep
clonodine
(I need help with the rest! What else might I need?)

So my question - what other meds do you think I should talk to my doctor about? I'm on about 80mgs of oxy per day. Does my plan sound solid to you guys? Thank you for any feedback you can provide. I'm very nervous about this appointment. I like my doctor a lot, and I don't want him to be frustrated or angry with me if I approach this the wrong way.

- VE

 

[VastEmpty]

Hey! Yes those meds are over the counter. 500mg of l-tryptophan mixed in with melatonin will help rest you...you may not sleep but you will feel rested.

You are going to need to change your friends if you don't want people talking you into anything. Part of your addiction is going to be insidious. If something triggers you, it is like planting a weed in your brain that eventually grows into active use. I had to stop being friends with a lot of people because I cannot save them, only myself, and my recovery is important to me and those that care about me. I want to say that if you truly want to recover from this you have to be willing to change everything in your life.

I would highly suggest discussing non-narcotic ways of controlling your pain with your GP. Generally they can find other medications or exercises that will help manage it. You have to be willing to be uncomfortable though. I have severe anxiety problems. I quit benzos because it was not sustainable for me to take them. I had to accept the fact that I probably will never feel 100% calm ever again. I'm okay with that. You may never be pain free...you will just have to do what you can and accept what you cannot do.

You can do this my friend! You are doing awesome so far, and I am in your corner!
-ManBoyChef
head chef at "Suk Mi Wok" chinese russian fusion restaurant.

ManBoy -

what at in the heck is a "Russian fusion restaurant?" That sounds a-mazing! I'm pretty much as far away from Florida as I can be in the continental US - but I might have to put it on my bucket list to go to a Florida Russian fusion restaurant!

i actually don't had many friends actively using. So I won't need much of a lifestyle change, but some will certainly be necessary. The good thing about me is that I don't often make the same mistake twice. I've taken steps to be sure the two stumbling blocks I ran into are removed from this upcoming attempt.

I have discussed non-narcotic ways to control my pain for years with my doctor. Unfortunately, I really think I've never given them my all because of the opiates. Maybe I'm kidding myself, but opiates take away my motivation to stick with something or to go through anything even remotely painful - and sometimes you have to push through stuff like that. I can't. I cave. However, without the opiates I do so much better! I can stick with a healthy diet, exercise, cutting down on smoking, etc. last time I quit, I was down from a pack a day smoking to just 3-4 per day. As soon as I relapsed my smoking shot up again.

I don't know if I'm even making sense, but I feel like it's all or nothing - all-natural or all-unnatural! So I'm moving in the direction of all-natural. No chemicals, period. For at least six months. If none of the natural ways work after I have actually given them a shot, then I will need to reassess where I'm at. But that's six months clean - so I've got a long time before I have to worry about that.right now, this is my number one priority!

- VE

 

[MrRoot]

Well on a anime serie (Durarara! (My profile pic is from that serie)) there was a Russian sushi restaurant which sounded something that couldn't exist in the real world but now I don't doubt it anymore

VastEmpty, if tapering from oxy is done right way it will take time. I tapered this spring from 160mgs a day to zero and it took months, not days. In a zero phase I was given zolpidem (Ambien in the states) as part of the experiment of my Dr. and it worked really well. I didn't have any problems tapering and first weeks without nothing went quite well.

Sadly I continued to use after a while but that is another story as I had recreational use too.

Talk with your Dr. about the tapering. I am sure he/she won't vouch for a few day tapering.

 

[VastEmpty]

Well on a anime serie (Durarara! (My profile pic is from that serie)) there was a Russian sushi restaurant which sounded something that couldn't exist in the real world but now I don't doubt it anymore

VastEmpty, if tapering from oxy is done right way it will take time. I tapered this spring from 160mgs a day to zero and it took months, not days. In a zero phase I was given zolpidem (Ambien in the states) as part of the experiment of my Dr. and it worked really well. I didn't have any problems tapering and first weeks without nothing went quite well.

Sadly I continued to use after a while but that is another story as I had recreational use too.

Talk with your Dr. about the tapering. I am sure he/she won't vouch for a few day tapering.

Thanks for the response, Root. When you tapered, did you have work/school - and if so, how were you able to make it through that? I would love to do a slow taper, I just can't afford to prolong withdrawals! Mostly because I can't get much more than three weeks off of work to do my taper/cold turkey - whichever I choose. That's why I thought a quick five day taper might be best. Sort of a hybrid of taper and cold turkey.

On another note - why in the hell do they call it "cold turkey"?

- VE

 

[MrRoot]

I am somewhat entitled to have decent living without doing nothing due my veteran compensation but I do write articles and novels in my native language.

Anyhow the tapering process was done really slow as it was dropped 10mg per week and I didn't notice any physical withdrawals during the whole process. I had cravings of course but could control my use during tapering. After I hit zero I was given zolpidem to be taken even during day and it worked well for cravings and some minor discomfort I was having.

I had a surgery which pretty much fixed all the pain and that was why I discontinued the use of oxycodone. As the pain was gone I could do things I couldn't do before and that helped me wih the tapering process.

As what comes to productivity I could write and edit my novel 8-12 hours per day or write articles so as the the pain was gone my productivity went up and tapering process didn't hinder it. Actually I believe that my cognitive abilities went better as I wasn't clouded by opioid haze.

Going cold turkey currently I believe originates from the feeling people have when kicking the habit suddenly as most people get goosebumps and therefore might even look like refrigated turkey

Phrase has been used before (in the early 20th century before addicts appeared in the media) in other sense as talk turkey means talking plainly and cold has been used as meaning straightforward.

 

[Notsoprettyinpink]

Your story VastEmpty sounds extremely familiar to mine. I felt like half of what I was reading is me to a "t". I just read what you wrote back to me on MrRoot's thread (and responded) and then came onto your thread and many of our similarities are unreal. I have Reflex Sympathetic Dystrophy though and a slew of other ailments but pain wise that's my "top dog".

I, also, was at about 80 to sometimes a little over 100 mgs of oxys (pink 10's) plus some methadone mixed in to not be "sick".

I also am prescribed a multitude of other meds (non narcotic) but never gave them a real chance to see if they would help with my disorder. I just relied on the oxys and even "forgot" on most days to take my other meds.

As for feeling the wd's for so long? I, too, am the same. Still sweating profusely, hot/cold flashes and my sleep is sure not the best either. For me that's the most discouraging part. I'm still feeling them after around a month but am also dealing with an astronomical amount of PAWS. When you have a chance (although I can see you have a busy life), read what I wrote back to you.

You're not alone and this site (and forum specifically) proves it especially since it's filled with nothing but kind, caring and non judgemental, loving people who've been through it. I'm not at the "end" yet but it helped me immensely reading what you've written. It also helps immensely to always be receiving such good, sound advise from others.

All and all I can relate to nearly everything. Even the smoking. I had quit and am now up to over a pack per day (which is horrible for my RSD, and is even more then I used to smoke, yet I'm back to doing it and only started back up after I quit the opiates cold turkey).

Towards the end I used methadone for 3 days (but already had a small tolerance to it so I, unsafely, overused my other prescribed meds....3 being Xanax, Seroquel and Baclofen) and then somehow felt great. Or at least I thought so because my pulse was no longer almost 200 (I overtook my heart meds as well) and with the help of loperamide (which of all things required me to have a hospitalization stay and I did some pretty hard core damage that I just found out about on Friday....long story...longer then my post back...haha) and cetrizycline I didn't endure any vomiting or diarrhea. Trust me, I'm NOT saying that how I got off was safe at all. The over usage of Baclofen alone? I could've drowned in my tub because I kept passing out. I was mostly shocked at what the loperamide did though but it was actually a disaster that ended as a "blessing in disguise" because for me (not for all), just a few days of it made me sicker then the wd's and the sickness never went away so I ended up having a colonoscopy done which showed I had 4 large precancerous cysts in my duodenum (small intestine) and in my stomach.

Again, please trust me when I say that my approach was NOT SAFE but at the time I felt it was safeER then taking all the narcotics I was and enduring the horrific wd's each month anyway.

It's 7 am where I live (no sleep last night.....an obstacle that seems to come and go but I am going to try what's been recommended on your thread as well as mine) so I am a bit tired now to say the least (fortunately for me I was able to take an indefinite leave from my nursing career but my supervisor believes it's all health related....and much is....but I took it to attempt to end my useage of the oxycodone).......so to be honest, I just briefly skimmed everything and will thoroughly read later. Besides the RSD, I also have fibroyalgia so I'm more then knowledgeable when it comes to autoimmune disorders. Although the RSD is not considered to be one, I beg to differ a bit since it was caused by a fall that led to my nervous system to go haywire in the effected limb 2 months later and then progressed to my non infected limb and may continue to spread so that to me is "autoimmune" since my own body is "fighting" itself for no good reason besides a fall around 2 years ago.

Anyway, I'm not sure what you have or what you take but if you'd like, I would be more then happy to share with you what has been prescribed to me (non narcotic) for my conditions. They are certainly not helping my PAWS but are helping my pain.

Lastly, 42 days is amazing. You did alot of hard work to make it to that number and I hope and pray to as well.

Much love, support and strength to you,
Bernadette

 

[Jabberwocky]

Yup, that is why they call it cold turkey