Benzos need help figuring out phenibut taper please!

[<SpaceHead>]

Thanks for listening, I've never been in a situation like this and I could really use some advise from someone who has.

So I have been using phenibut for a few months, for a while it was about two or three days a week, under 2g a day which didn't seem to produce withdrawal effects but recently I have had alot of stress in my life and I have lost track of my phenibut use, going to four then five days a week and then every day or about the last week or so.

I've gotten up to 2g in the morning and 2g before bed. I've developed a pins and needles feeling in my left hand and in my lips, the feeling isn't too intense yet but it's definitely scary, I've also developed depression and anxiety when not on phenibut, and some insomnia. I haven't experienced any muscle spasms or increased heart rate yet like I have read others experiencing.

So I need some advise on how to taper safely, I have plenty of phenibut left to work with. How fast should I taper to avoid significant WD symptoms but not make my body more dependent on it? I have a lot to do in my daily life and can't afford to be anxious and depressed all the time so I don't mind taking it slow. I'm on 2g in the morning and 2g at night, maybe I should decrease 100mg or 200mg a day? I've never had any kind of physical addiction like this before and I feel really stupid now, but phenibut itself can really fuck up your judgement and make you think everything is fine, I'm finally seeing this now.

 

[oar9fi]

Hi. I used phenibut for about 8mo's total, about 6mo's almost every day. I would use 3-4g a day to get by or 6-8g for a fun night. The WD caused by it was weird for me. It was all psychological but very real. It was hard for me to bring myself to do anything & I got paranoid about stupid things that I knew were just stupid things- mostly in the form of "what if..."s (like, What if the funny shit I wrote on that $20 goes to the Secret Service & they use some hi-tech way to ID my handwriting" lol)
I was also hanging out with my ex-GF who gets in lots of trouble & lies alot and WD made me question everything.
As for how to taper, I'll tell you what worked for me. Wait until it gets pretty bad (~36h after last dose for me) then take "just enough to feel better" (half normal dose) and for me even just knowing that there was SOME phenibut in me made me feel better. I was only dosing once a day, since thats how long it took for the anxiety to manifest. You just have to ride the wave of anxiety down until it's normal/bearable. Staying busy helps because you don't dwell on the negativity. Once I got down to .5g per dose (again, only taken when the anxiety would hit) for a week I had several busy days after which I realized I hadn't taken it in a few days & that was the end of it.
I never had any cravings & I never ran out of it, I do still take it from time to time. But I don't NEED to take it.

, phenibut itself can really fuck up your judgement and make you think everything is fine, I'm finally seeing this now.

And phenibut withdrawl can fuck up your judgement in the exact opposite way, where you worry about trivial things & imagine the worst when in reality everything is fine. Take your time & I'm confident that since you seem to really want to end your dependence, you will. I'd say "good luck" but I don't think luck has much to do with it. "Stay positive" is more appropriate I think. My dose reduction was 50% a week & it took about a month.

Edit: To clarify, I was trying to say that the effects of the WD were mainly psychological, not the addiction itself. There is definitely a chemical dependency involved here. I felt as if any physical issues (slight sweat, decreased appetite etc.) were due to the anxiety which was in turn due to the WD rather than the WD itself manifesting physically.

 

[<SpaceHead>]

Thanks for the feedback! Yea I guess I'm not that deep in in the grand scheme of things, I've read about some nightmare WD's after years of use. I have gotten some intense social anxiety and unreasonable depression a few times before realizing it was the phenibut WD's kicking in. I'm going through an intense time in my life so it has been impossible to separate the real anxiety from the phenibut WD's, I guess the WD's are just greatly exaggerating the real anxieties.

I have gotten what I'm pretty sure are physical symptoms, this weird numb/ buzzing pins and needles feeling in only my left hand and lips and pretty significant nausea. I don't think I'm as deep as you were so maybe I could get off it in two weeks, I'll wait it out and keep a couple grams on hand if things get bad. Anyways thanks so much for the advise I was pretty freaked out because I've had addictions like ketamine where it's just an intense craving for the drug but nothing really happens if you don't take it. This stuff is the opposite, I don't really crave it but I start to feel terrible if I don't take it.

I wonder if I will take phenibut again after I get over this, it is a super useful drug if you take it sparingly. Phenibut and coffee have gotten me through alot of stressful and demanding situations feeling just fine.

 

[Jakeperson]

Oar9fi is right.

I have been addicted to Phenibut before, didn't taper that time. I would disagree that the withdrawals are psychological, I have been pretty close to seizures when I have let myself see how bad the withdrawals are. I find the best way is to start dropping your daily dose by a few hundred milligrams, also one of the things that has helped me so much is waiting as LONG as possible before taking my dose as it gives my body some time to clear it out and the tolerance to drop slightly. I found that after a few weeks of dropping my dose like that, that I could last 48 hours before my withdrawals hit instead of 24. So now I am taking less than my daily dose every second day. I tried dropping from 2g to 1g tonight but that was a bit rash judging from how my body feels.

Also if you have any liver conditions, take any other medications, recreational drugs or alcohol then it would be wise to get a liver function test from your doctor after (or during) long term phenibut use. It sure as hell aint good for it.

 

[Jakeperson]

The seizure thing is probably because of the fact that I am only about 1 month into benzo withdrawal as well.

I would advise against taking Phenibut ever again, if you do take it sparingly next time (I started like that) you will notice a bunch of side-effects and just generally feeling like shit the next day. And it's quite easy to fall back into the daily routine of it.

 

[xxxyyy]

if phenibut behaves anything like ghb/gbl, which it should, try getting some baclofen. high doses of that were what got me through the ghb withdrawal, which was pure hell.

also, the second time i was stupid enough to get physically addicted to ghb, i tapered off very slowly, over the course of three weeks. from what i know about phenibut (never taken it personally) i'd recommend doing the same. a more steep taper was simply not tolerable without concurrent use of benzos or opiates and my goal at the time was to be completely drug-free. didn't last long.

 

[<SpaceHead>]

Update:
so ive been doing really well getting off phenibut. got some kava kava capsules and smoking small amounts of weed help.with nausea and anxiety, got 10 days worth of ambien to sleep. Each night I can sleep a little longer. Something id like to say for others out there is dont psyche yourself out with all the online horror stories. it does suck but reading all of the nightmare reports was making me way more anxious. Take it one day at a time and remember the anxiety is just a chemical imbalance that will pass with time. also have been taking some piracetam to combat the spaced out feeling. And i have been meditating, focusing on the breath and trying to let the anxios thoughts pass by without getting sucked into them. I dont think i was as deep as i expected but im never gona do this again.

 

[oar9fi]

That's good to hear. It sounds like you have it under control. Yeah, all of the horror stories will make you expect the worst, & that, in turn causes more anxiety. I also found piracetam very useful for preventing those twitches (myoclonus) that caused me to spill drinks on everything while on phenibut. I also use pira when I feel "blah" & have stuff to do. As for seizures from phenibut withdrawl, I've never found a case where anyone actually had a seizure due to phenibut withdrawl (I read one report of one a month after stopping, but I doubt it was related as the guy was taking amphetamine.) Baclofen withdrawl can cause seizures, so I'm not saying it's impossible, just very unlikely.

Thanks for updating the thread... most phenibut WD threads are like "OMG What should I do? This is bad." etc. then they don't give an update, leaving it up to ones imagination as to how it all turned out, and not giving others who may be in the same boat reassurance to know that it can be managed/beaten.
PeesOut Brahthurs & Systurs. - oar9fi

 

[<SpaceHead>]

another update: managing withdrawal symptoms

The kava pills are useful but must be used sparingly. The ones I have suggest taking only three pills a day which add up to 225mg kavalactones. I've found taking anywhere over about five in a day or trying to actually get high on it instead of just mildly curbing the anxiety can cause a nasty headache and gross stomach pains, not worth the mild high.

Same with weed, must be used sparingly. I got some really high quality weed and smoked it to relax when I was anxious and got thrown into an introspective hellhole for an hour or so, too much pot amplifies anxiety.

Alcohol helps momentarily but the hangover seems greatly increased.

Another frequent problem is nightmares disturbing my sleep, so when I do take phenibut I figure it may be better to take it around noon, afternoon instead of 8 am so some is still in my system as I'm sleeping to prevent these alarming dreams.

So I went from 2g in the morning and 2g at night to

monday morning 2.7g,

tuesday, none, kava pills, meditation, pot, piracetam, ambien 10mg valarian root and melatonin to sleep

wenesday 1.6g meditation, pot, piracetam, ambien 10mg valarian root and melatonin to sleep

thursday none, kava pills, meditation, pot, piracetam, ambien 10mg valarian root and melatonin to sleep

friday 1.4g meditation, pot, piracetam later ended up getting drunk on whiskey, had a great time but not so much the next day 5mg ambient to sleep

Saturday woke up with a nasty hangover and feeling really depressed. The depression got the best of me, took 1.7g phenibut. The phenibut altered my judgement and I took a decent dose of kratom. The kratom had me feeling amazing for the after noon but became very depressed again as it wore off.

Sunday went to see my family, took 1.6g, got alot of physical exercise and was able to sleep a full night without ambien, I think physical exertion is very very helpful.

Monday no phenibut, forgot to bring my kava pills, was feeling pretty depressed until later in the night my mood started to improve.

tuesday, today, meditation, kava pills, piracetam, green tea, getting things done helps me feel more confident. It's 1pm and I feel mostly good so far, if I don't feel terrible later today I will be quitting the phenibut entirely here.

I'll update at the end of the week to see if I make it off today.

Hope this is of any use to others trying to get off phenibut.

 

[PhenibutUser]

I had to register to comment that this was the first thread I've seen that also mentions the pins&needles (paresthesia) in the arms and lips. I've been using Phenibut for 18 months, and the first indication of this was after about 6 months of use (when dosage had started to approach daily). I managed to keep overall dosage to reasonable levels and recreational spikes would cap at 2.4 grams, but generally increasing to where I was averaging around .9-1.2grams a day. The paresthesia has come and gone but been pretty bad lately. Like an idiot I refused to blame the phenibut and blamed a physical abnormality (thinking it was ulnar nerve pinching at the elbow) in combination with too hard an exercise regime, except I was even suspect of that theory because for me it became both arms rather rapidly which made the likely theory some kind of systemic problem (or brain). Actually, the numbness at the lips is extremely mild but I have detected it, as well as general face. Anyway, long story short last Saturday I had the first extremely negative reaction that I am still recovering from wherein I had taken 3.6 grams on Friday (something I did maybe 3 times) and then 2.4 grams on Saturday and then put in 2.5 hours of basketball, and then later that day my brain just broke, felt like a stroke, miserable, and now three days later not back to normal. Anyhow I am committed now to quitting to see if it cleans up the paresthesia and have been at 1.2 grams a day for Sun,Mon,Tues. Will drop to .9,.6 grams and then declare free. Even now I have an odd throbbing at my temples and my brain has felt almost the same as having a severe fever. When the paresthesia is bad, the hands will get warm and the skin will feel stiff and burn and the veins will seem to bulge. The area around the elbow where the ulnar nerve passes gets painful, and putting pressure on that area increases the problem. If phenibut is to blame, then it clearly increases the sensitivity of the nerves themselves.

So my only question to Spacehead is what his progress on the paresthesia is.

If there is more confirmation of the paresthesia from other users, I think this is a side-effect that people need to be aware of. If it doesn't reverse itself now that I am off the drug, well I am gonna be an unhappy fella.

 

[<SpaceHead>]

Yea the paresthesia effect went away once I got to really low dosages or off phenibut completely. I got the weird buzzing numbness in one arm and the lips which was similar to the feeling you get from taking nitrous oxide but unpleasant instead of pleasant. It is a really sketchy feeling and freaked me out a lot, but don't over think it just take your taper slow and steady. Every day that you take less you're making progress. My sleep has finally returned to normal, actually I wake up after about 7 hours feeling awake which is nice because I used to sleep in way too much, I guess that's the only perceivable benefit to phenibut withdrawal for me. But yea make a plan of action, keep track of your dosages and don't beat yourself up if you have to taper a little slower than planned, the paresthesia will go away soon!

 

[PhenibutUser]

The taper is going fine thanks but yeah 4-5 hours is about my limit. I wake up and there is no chance of going back to sleep. I'm at 900mg without any serious WD effects of the depressive variety. I still feel the paresthesia but assume at best case it will take until I'm completely off + 3 days or so. Still it surprises me that we are the only two people on the internets to have mentioned this side-effect. I see some reference to it in benzo withdrawal cases.

I'm wondering now if I had a mini-seizure on Saturday. That sucked. I continue to have mild after-effects.

I really did love this drug once. I suppose that's a familiar story.

 

[<SpaceHead>]

Haha yea whats not to love in a day of worry free disinhibited fun, until you cant sleep unless you take it. I actualy read one other person describing the paresthsia effect forget if it was here or another forum. Also I dont think you had a seizure, it seems very rare with phenibut WDs and I've read of people getting off way higher daily doses than you that didn't have seizures. It is pretty scary but try not to freak yourself out too much you'll be feeling back to normal soon.