Myths About Pot

[Virtuoso]

Note: I posted this elsewhere, but thought it deserved it's own topic.

There seems to be this conception surrounding marijuana that it isn't a "bad" drug like all the others, and pot smokers in particular get really indignant when medical professionals point out the downsides of the drug. This is largely because drug legislation has been co-opted by political factions.

Drugs are neither good nor bad - they are just objects. For example, morphine has relieved more suffering than any drug in the history of medicine, but for a heroin addict it causes problems. What is bad are the problems that people can develop with the drugs, not the drugs themselves.

Common myths about marijuana:
1. Its not addictive.

In fact, marijuana addiction is the number two most common addiction after alcohol in the clinic I work at.

2. Its a wonderdrug.

It certainly has its uses, but it is by no means a cure-all. Anxiety, one of the most common conditions it is prescribed for in California, is actually made worse with long term marijuana use.

3. Its safer than smoking cigarettes.

Actually, it has almost the exact same carcinogen profile as cigarettes. If you smoke as much weed as an average cigarette smoker, you have an equal likelihood of developing cancer (about 20% ).

4. It has no physical withdrawal.

Ask long-term smokers who have quit. Anxiety, depression, dysphoria, etc. Many smokers, after smoking a number of years, find that the positive effects of the drug disappear and instead cause intense dysphoria. These users often turn to other drugs, like opiates or benzos, in order to retain the ability to get high.

5. Its completely safe.

See above.

6. Its safer than other drugs because its "natural".

This is the stupidest argument of the bunch. Everything is made out of chemicals, from cocaine, to condoms. Whether it is grown in nature or in a lab is completely inconsequential.

Personally, I get no enjoyable euphoria from smoking pot, but my brother and dad love the stuff. Whatever the case, misuse or abuse of any drug can be harmful to individuals. The thing is, prohibition of it obviously does not work, nor does it work with any drug. Why has this drug, out of all of them, deserve the most lenient treatment?

I honestly believe that all drugs should be legalized, which would not only reduce the criminal population and gang violence, but would allow addicts to receive an unadulterated and safe quantity of their drug.

 

[Dr.DOB]

The active ingredient in marijuana cuts tumor growth in common lung cancer in half and significantly reduces the ability of the cancer to spread, say researchers at Harvard University
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2007/04/070417193338.htm

 

[Virtuoso]

The active ingredient in marijuana cuts tumor growth in common lung cancer in half and significantly reduces the ability of the cancer to spread, say researchers at Harvard University

Yeah, if it has been isolated and put into pill form (or in this case, injectable form). Do you really think smoking something is going to help lung cancer at all? Seriously? Use some common sense here.

 

[Dr.DOB]

Common myths about marijuana:
1. Its not addictive.

Marijuana is equally as addictive as fast food, working out at the gym, sex, and less addicting than caffeine. Anything fun can be addicting.


3. Its safer than smoking cigarettes.

It is much safer than cigarettes because cigarettes contain lots of additives and the paper is bad for your lungs too. If you eat marijuana there is a 0% chance to get cancer. If you vaporize there is a 99% reduced chance to get cancer.

4. It has no physical withdrawal.

It does have some physical withdrawal but for most people its almost non existent and not bothersome, unlike alcohol were you can have seizures and die from cessation.

 

[Virtuoso]

Common myths about marijuana:
1. Its not addictive.

Marijuana is equally as addictive as fast food, working out at the gym, sex, and less addicting than caffeine. Anything fun can be addicting.

Here you are just wrong. This is me speaking from clinical and research experience. The reason why is that marijuana substantially affect the dopaminergic pathways, or "reward pathways" in the brain. It does this far more than the activities you mention. The argument you offer is simply not supported by clinical evidence. This is one of those things that you can "disagree" with me on, but all that disagreement is a demonstration of your ignorance on the issue.

3. Its safer than smoking cigarettes.

It is much safer than cigarettes because cigarettes contain lots of additives and the paper is bad for your lungs too. If you eat marijuana there is a 0% chance to get cancer. If you vaporize there is a 99% reduced chance to get cancer.

If you smoke joints, you are getting the same paper and glue. If you vaporize tobacco it is almost exactly the same as vaporizing pot. As far as the additives, its inconsequential as the most harmful carcinogens come from the substance itself (they do). You are right about the eating of the marijuana, but the most common ROA is smoking.

4. It has no physical withdrawal.

It does have some physical withdrawal but for most people its almost non existent and not bothersome, unlike alcohol were you can have seizures and die from cessation.

It may not have the same physical withdrawal as alcohol, but it does have enough of a physical withdrawal to create a barrier to quitting for many individuals. Also, unlike opiate withdrawal (as an example), the effects tend to be more subtle but last substantially longer (up to a year). Finally, what you consider to not be "bothersome", may not be the case for others. Withdrawal affects many people differently.

This is just another example of people who smoke pot either misrepresenting or misunderstanding the nature of their drug of choice. It is not benign, nor is any drug.

 

[kel1127]

If you smoke joints, you are getting the same paper and glue. If you vaporize tobacco it is almost exactly the same as vaporizing pot. As far as the additives, its inconsequential as the most harmful carcinogens come from the substance itself (they do). You are right about the eating of the marijuana, but the most common ROA is smoking.



It may not have the same physical withdrawal as alcohol, but it does have enough of a physical withdrawal to create a barrier to quitting for many individuals. Also, unlike opiate withdrawal (as an example), the effects tend to be more subtle but last substantially longer (up to a year). Finally, what you consider to not be "bothersome", may not be the case for others.
.

Where is there glue in rolling paper?

Marijuana Withdrawl is nothing and if you can't go two days having trouble sleeping, lack of appetite, and slight depression, then you're just a complete loser. It does not last a year, where have you been getting that fact? Hell, I smoked for a year straight, quit cold turkey, and felt refreshed after 2 days.

I am an athlete(soccer, basketball, etc.). I smoked all soccer season, marijuana that is. Never had any cardio problems, none what so ever. But lately I've started smoking cigarettes and those are killer on your cardio, so if your going to attack something for being bad for your lungs, then attack tobacco.

 

[mr.dopeman]

^ there is a small film of glue you lick to make the papers stick.

 

[Virtuoso]

Where is there glue in rolling paper?

Marijuana Withdrawl is nothing and if you can't go two days having trouble sleeping, lack of appetite, and slight depression, then you're just a complete loser. It does not last a year, where have you been getting that fact? Hell, I smoked for a year straight, quit cold turkey, and felt refreshed after 2 days.

I am an athlete(soccer, basketball, etc.). I smoked all soccer season, marijuana that is. Never had any cardio problems, none what so ever. But lately I've started smoking cigarettes and those are killer on your cardio, so if your going to attack something for being bad for your lungs, then attack tobacco.

I got that information from clinical experience and conducting research in the area. While most people get over the intense withdrawal by about 30 days, often singular symptoms (insomnia, restlessness, depression, anxiety) will last about a year. And some rolling papers have a glue strip at the end of the paper to keep the joint together.

Link.


I really don't get why pot smokers are so indignant about their drug of choice. Why is this such a threat to your worldview? Nothing is harmless, and the reason why the full detriments of marijuana were never really known until now is due to the prior bannings on research. Now that more research, and specifically longitudinal studies can be done, we can view the full spectrum of effects, both positive and negative.

 

[beta1]

Virtuoso, I don't have time to shut down all the stuff you said with practical/real answers.

But I sure will later

 

[kzorro]

Myth: Pot isn't a drug 8)

 

[beannehmer]

Standard Sucht
4. Medizin: Experte für Lungenkrankheiten fordert Legalisierung

Mehr als 30 Jahre galt der US-amerikanische Mediziner Dr. Donald Tashkin als einer der aktivsten forschenden Marihuanagegner.

Manch einer sah im Lungespezialisten und langjährigen Leiter der medizinischen Fakultät der Universität von Los Angeles gar ein US-Pendant zum Hamburger Prof. Dr. Rainer Thomasius.

Dass er diesen Titel zu Unrecht trägt, bewies Taskin Ende Mai, als er die Veröffentlichung einer Studie über das Lungenkrebsrisiko von Marihuanakonsumenten dazu nutzte, sich öffentlich für dessen Legalisierung einzusetzen.

Early on, when our research appeared as if there would be a negative impact on lung health, I was opposed to legalization because I thought it would lead to increased use and that would lead to increased health effects.
But at this point, I'd be in favor of legalization. I wouldn't encourage anybody to smoke any substances. But I don't think it should be stigmatized as an illegal substance. Tobacco smoking causes far more harm. And in terms of an intoxicant, alcohol causes far more harm.
this is from a lungspecialist from the university of Los Angeles Dr. Donald Tashkin.
sorry about the german words in that articel it just goes together.
beannehmer

 

[Virtuoso]

Standard Sucht
4. Medizin: Experte für Lungenkrankheiten fordert Legalisierung

Mehr als 30 Jahre galt der US-amerikanische Mediziner Dr. Donald Tashkin als einer der aktivsten forschenden Marihuanagegner.

Manch einer sah im Lungespezialisten und langjährigen Leiter der medizinischen Fakultät der Universität von Los Angeles gar ein US-Pendant zum Hamburger Prof. Dr. Rainer Thomasius.

Dass er diesen Titel zu Unrecht trägt, bewies Taskin Ende Mai, als er die Veröffentlichung einer Studie über das Lungenkrebsrisiko von Marihuanakonsumenten dazu nutzte, sich öffentlich für dessen Legalisierung einzusetzen.

Early on, when our research appeared as if there would be a negative impact on lung health, I was opposed to legalization because I thought it would lead to increased use and that would lead to increased health effects.
But at this point, I'd be in favor of legalization. I wouldn't encourage anybody to smoke any substances. But I don't think it should be stigmatized as an illegal substance. Tobacco smoking causes far more harm. And in terms of an intoxicant, alcohol causes far more harm.
this is from a lungspecialist from the university of Los Angeles Dr. Donald Tashkin.
sorry about the german words in that articel it just goes together.
beannehmer

I am all for legalization. I think drug prohibition in general is both ineffective, disproportionately harms the lower classes, and and a violation of human liberty.

But, pot is not a magic herb with no negative consequences, like many seem to believe. Beta1, I look forward to your response. I will expect citations, sir.

 

[beta1]

There seems to be this conception surrounding marijuana that it isn't a "bad" drug like all the others, and pot smokers in particular get really indignant when medical professionals point out the downsides of the drug. This is largely because drug legislation has been co-opted by political factions.

Well thats because it isn't.. Sure there are negative health effects and general downsides and side effects, but its common knowledge thats its pretty much the safest recreational drug out there. Not all drugs are the same, and shouldn't be treated as such.

Drugs are neither good nor bad - they are just objects. For example, morphine has relieved more suffering than any drug in the history of medicine, but for a heroin addict it causes problems. What is bad are the problems that people can develop with the drugs, not the drugs themselves.

Usually thats true.

Common myths about marijuana:
1. Its not addictive.
In fact, marijuana addiction is the number two most common addiction after alcohol in the clinic I work at.

Ummm, no. It may be the #2 "addiction" that gets treated at your clinic, but that means pretty much nothing. I believe its like 98% of all people that are admitted to a treatment program for "marijuana addiction" do so against their will (either by a parent/guardian or judge/court). So.. Pretty much no one goes into marijuana addiction treatment without being forced, doesn't that tell you something?

2. Its a wonderdrug.
It certainly has its uses, but it is by no means a cure-all. Anxiety, one of the most common conditions it is prescribed for in California, is actually made worse with long term marijuana use.

Totally depends on the person and how the medication is used. It is true that long-term marijuana use can cause anxiety, but what does that have to do with anything? A side-effect of most anti-depressants is depression, that doesn't automatically disqualify them as a viable treatment for depression.

3. Its safer than smoking cigarettes.
Actually, it has almost the exact same carcinogen profile as cigarettes. If you smoke as much weed as an average cigarette smoker, you have an equal likelihood of developing cancer (about 20% ).

Smoke as much weed as a cigarette smoker? Lets look at this realistically instead of hypothetically. Lets say the average cigarette smoker smokes a pack a day (20 cigs) and the average pothead smokes 3 joints a day (which is alot if your smoking them alone). Thats not even CLOSE to the same amount of smoke intake.

Bottom-line is even if weed did cause the same damage in the same way (which it doesn't), it wouldn't matter. Because almost no one out there is smoking a comparable amount of pot. Sure maybe smoking 20 joints a day could lead to lung cancer, but in real life no one smokes 20 joints a day, so its irrelevant.

4. It has no physical withdrawal.
Ask long-term smokers who have quit. Anxiety, depression, dysphoria, etc. Many smokers, after smoking a number of years, find that the positive effects of the drug disappear and instead cause intense dysphoria. These users often turn to other drugs, like opiates or benzos, in order to retain the ability to get high.

Well first off thats complete bullshit, no one moving to opiates/benzos because of weed. Sure, there is some physical w/d that usually gets ignored when talking about marijuana. But it gets ignored for good reason, its very very minor/manageable comparable to harder drugs. Legal highs like alcohol and nicotine are generally much harder to w/d from.

5. Its completely safe.
See above.

Nothing out there is "completely safe". So saying marijuana isn't, isn't much of an argument.

6. Its safer than other drugs because its "natural".
This is the stupidest argument of the bunch. Everything is made out of chemicals, from cocaine, to condoms. Whether it is grown in nature or in a lab is completely inconsequential.

Personally, I get no enjoyable euphoria from smoking pot, but my brother and dad love the stuff. Whatever the case, misuse or abuse of any drug can be harmful to individuals. The thing is, prohibition of it obviously does not work, nor does it work with any drug. Why has this drug, out of all of them, deserve the most lenient treatment?

I honestly believe that all drugs should be legalized, which would not only reduce the criminal population and gang violence, but would allow addicts to receive an unadulterated and safe quantity of their drug.

I agree with you on these points about drugs and their legalization. Weed gets the most attention on that front because it should be legal even based on the governments own dumbass logic and its massively popular so naturally there are going to be more people fighting for its legalization. Not saying its "right", but thats how it is.

 

[Virtuoso]

Well thats because it isn't.. Sure there are negative health effects and general downsides and side effects, but its common knowledge thats its pretty much the safest recreational drug out there. Not all drugs are the same, and shouldn't be treated as such.

Being the "safest" and being completely safe are completely different.

Ummm, no. It may be the #2 "addiction" that gets treated at your clinic, but that means pretty much nothing. I believe its like 98% of all people that are admitted to a treatment program for "marijuana addiction" do so against their will (either by a parent/guardian or judge/court). So.. Pretty much no one goes into marijuana addiction treatment without being forced, doesn't that tell you something?

Give me a citation or put that number squarely back into your ass, where you got it from :D Look, you can believe me or not, but people cannot be interned by the state for marijuana use and abuse. It just doesn't happen. They go to jail, or they go home, but the only time they come to my hospital is through their own volition. I would estimate that this is the same in other states as well. At most they would get court ordered NA meetings, but I am talking about things like inpatient treatment and sober living facilities. I wish I could find the numbers, but Drew Pinsky (the guy on Loveline) is an addictionologist in California, where pot is basically decriminalized. He states that he treats almost as many patients with marijuana addiction as he does alcoholism. At the moment I cannot seem to find any hard numbers though.

Totally depends on the person and how the medication is used. It is true that long-term marijuana use can cause anxiety, but what does that have to do with anything? A side-effect of most anti-depressants is depression, that doesn't automatically disqualify them as a viable treatment for depression.

A potential side effect of anti-depressants is depression, but with almost every long term marijuana addict I have found (we are talking people that have smoked for 20, 25 years) anxiety is a given.

Smoke as much weed as a cigarette smoker? Lets look at this realistically instead of hypothetically. Lets say the average cigarette smoker smokes a pack a day (20 cigs) and the average pothead smokes 3 joints a day (which is alot if your smoking them alone). Thats not even CLOSE to the same amount of smoke intake.

Never said it was. My point was, however, that it is still bad for you. In fact, some studies suggest that it creates 5-7x as much tar, creating the potential for emphysema later in life. Once again, we are talking about the argument that pot is completely benign, when it clearly isn't.

Bottom-line is even if weed did cause the same damage in the same way (which it doesn't), it wouldn't matter. Because almost no one out there is smoking a comparable amount of pot. Sure maybe smoking 20 joints a day could lead to lung cancer, but in real life no one smokes 20 joints a day, so its irrelevant.

Well, don't say no one. My brother smokes half an ounce a day, and I know he isn't the only one.

Well first off thats complete bullshit, no one moving to opiates/benzos because of weed. Sure, there is some physical w/d that usually gets ignored when talking about marijuana. But it gets ignored for good reason, its very very minor/manageable comparable to harder drugs. Legal highs like alcohol and nicotine are generally much harder to w/d from.

Based just on my clinical experience, I can tell you that after a certain period of time marijuana stops having the same effect on long-time smokers that it did initially. Instead of causing euphoria, it begins to cause dysphoria, which often confuses these individuals. They try to solve the problem by smoking more pot, which makes the problem worse. I would estimate that roughly 50% turn to alternative medications in order to aid the acute withdrawal period, and many of those continue to use said alternative substances. There is a study that states that, but I don't have an online version available, and I cannot seem to find a version of it that even states the abstract.

I agree with you on these points about drugs and their legalization. Weed gets the most attention on that front because it should be legal even based on the governments own dumbass logic and its massively popular so naturally there are going to be more people fighting for its legalization. Not saying its "right", but thats how it is.

Drugs are drugs are drugs. I had some guy tell me that weed should be legal because its not a "chemical, like other drugs". Seriously, did he think it was magic that was getting him high or something? Weed may be less harmful than many other drugs, but there is still a high incidence of marijuana addiction and abuse, there is a documented acute withdrawal syndrome, and there are finally decent longitudinal studies on marijuana abuse.

Part of the reason why there is such a high incidence of marijuana addiction is because people have the same misconceptions about it that you do; that it is completely benign. It isn't, and no amount of rhetoric is going to trump the facts. This doesn't mean it should be illegal, but it certainly means that individuals who use should be wary of the potential consequences.

For you reading benefit:

Studies on MWS
Link
Link
Link

Studies on Marijuana Addiction
Link
Link
Link

 

[beta1]

Drugs are drugs are drugs

If you believe that, your more hopeless then your brother who smokes a half an ounce a day.

But nevertheless, I am always up for some healthy debate .. So I'll respond to everything else later when I have more time brother.

 

[Virtuoso]

If you believe that, your more hopeless then your brother who smokes a half an ounce a day.

But nevertheless, I am always up for some healthy debate .. So I'll respond to everything else later when I have more time brother.

I believe that because its true. Dude, I work with addicts almost every day. I actually have the clinical expertise to discuss this.

Alcohol, marijuana, cocaine, methamphetamine, benzodiazepines, opiates

They all change the functioning of the dopaminergic pathways, they all can create negative behavior, they all can make people unhappy, and they all can have deleterious effects on an individual's health. The disease of addiction is almost identical between individuals (causes, methods of successful treatment, etc) even if the DOC isn't.

 

[beta1]

Bro, I have been an opiate addict since I was 15. I smoke weed everyday. Its not the same (its like saying saying getting a paper-cut and getting shot are the same thing. I mean, they both hurt right? They MUST be the same).

I have better than clinical experience, I have real life experience. To say marijuana "addiction" and opiate addiction are even in the same category (as it applies to practical life), is just wrong. And no, smoking an ounce a day doesn't really count. If someone took 3000 Tylenol a day the underlying negative side effects would obviously come through more than if used as directed. I think your having a problem differentiating between marijuana "use" and "abuse" because you are obviously surrounded by many abusers and not enough responsible users.

I'm the last guy who thinks pot is "harmless", but when people try to make the case its not different than other recreational drugs I find they are usually only looking at the science and not the practical facts as they apply to real life :/.

 

[cookiemonster420]

IMO its the people who believe that its not only "not that bad for you," but also how it could be use it to subside the common cold (eyerolls).

And to beta no one is comparing the two as one causes you not only physical cravings and pains, but also extreme mental anxiety. They are just saying that it's not something people should look over because than it allows weed to become this gateway drug as someone could think, "Oh the big bad pot addiction that I used to learn about when I was young doesn't seem too bad.. vicodin cant be to bad.... now that that's not too bad heroin/morphine cant be too worse." Hell I just seen it happen to a buddy of mine : /

People need to accept all these studies do not allow anyone to talk about how it helps or hurts, as this legalization we had created this false negative(illegal)/positive(forbidden fruit) world that drugs have been all about. It's just hurting your head, body, and mind because our concious self enjoys it.

 

[tylerwashere]

i agree with beta on this one. Marijuana and an addictive drug like an opiate. i've been a opiate addict for 2 years and i guarantee no matter how much clinical research suggests you will never find a marijuana user robbing someone for weed money, or spending their food money on a dime bag of herb. Even people who abuse marijuana, smoke a quarter ounce a day even, will not be in the bathroom throwing up or begging their friends for money when their funds run out and they cannot buy any weed for a day or two. The two dont even belong is the same category, and those who say they do have not seen both drugs from a real life perspective.

and whats the line between using marijuana responsively and abuse by the way?

 

[harley89]

' I'm Thergood Jenkins, and im here because im addicted to marijuana'

'You ever suck a dick for some cannabis?'

'No?'

'Boooo this man..boooooooooooooooooooooooo!'

lol half baked.