Alcohol Moved to alcohol......Should i be worried?

[Zeano]

Hi Guys

So if any of you remember me , you will hopefully know I joined this forum about 6 weeks ago. As I was trying to find out information on Diazepam. My doctor gave me a 4 week prescription of it at 15mg a day.

Anyway, after reading a lot of your comments and other threads I soon relished that Benzos where only a short term fix and could create an extremely long lasting problem, so I weened myself off them in like week 3. 2 days at 10mg, 4 days at 5mg and stopped.

The problem is I have now really began probably moderate drinking. I have not had a benzo for around 20 days but I have had at least 3 alcoholic drinks a day and even if I have a couple of days at 3-4 drinks a day I will then reward myself with an all day binge kinda session. Which can be anything up to 12 drinks a day.

My drinks are just ENGLISH pints of beer...........not them little American cans . And I am doing this because I have really bad anxiety, to the point where I feel generally shaky and panicky 99% of time at moment......and when I get to like the 4 pint mark I feel more relaxed and just want to go out and do something.

I am currently off work with anxiety but plan to be back in 2 weeks. I do not drink any hard stuff to be fair, no vodka, whiskey, rum etc. etc.... as beer still seems to give me the kick I like. At the moment in England as well its REALLY hot and sunny so its hard to stay away from the beer gardens and socialising in pubs.

When my doctor prescribed diazepam I stopped drinking straight for 3 weeks. But prior to him prescribing me them I probably was in this same routine for 2 weeks. I wake up now and kinda count down the time till its acceptable to have a drink .......most days I manage to make it till about 5pm? Out of everything ive tried, even including diazepam......alcohol seems to be the only thing that can really relax me and make me stick my fingers up at anxiety.

Should this behaviour start worrying me? Am I turning into an alcoholic or am I just using the only thing I know to mask anxiety? With such a short period of moderate/heavy drinking, is their really chance for dependency to set in?

we have vodka in the house all the time , but I refuse to drink it as I don't want to move up the ladder. wont even drink wine.....just good ol beer.

any help would be great, thanks

 

[sekio]

I soon relished that Benzos where only a short term fix and could create an extremely long lasting problem,

Sure, but 15 mg diazepam is far less destructive than drinking 4 pints a day! Even though it's "just beer", ethanol is still ethanol - it damages your liver and fucks around with metabolism.

Should this behaviour start worrying me? Am I turning into an alcoholic or am I just using the only thing I know to mask anxiety? With such a short period of moderate/heavy drinking, is their really chance for dependency to set in?

Given that there's about 2.8 standard drinks in an English pint (568ml) of 5%ABV, 3-4pt a day is between 8.5 and 11 standard drinks a day (according to the UK gov't). That's a lot...

You may already be dependent, if you get anxious and shaky without alcohol. A lot of what you said is addict behaviour... waiting until your fix, feeling abnormal without your drug, using it on the regular. The curious fact that anti-anxiety drugs cause you to stop drinking means that it may be an underlying anxiety issue that's better off controlled with other medications.

 

[Bagseed]

Alcoholism can fuck your life, I'd rather have a moderate benzo habit than being alcoholic... Diazepam also has the advantage of a longer half life, because of that it is better in keeping you stabilized.

You should really talk to your doctor about this.

And btw: You sticking to beer for now means nothing. It contains the same drug as vodka after all. The only difference is that it is easier to get drunk with stronger beverages, which you might turn to when the beer isn't strong enough anymore.

 

[Zeano]

Hi

Thanks for the reply sekio.

Also the hard thing is I love to socialize and really struggle with it due to anxiety. I found that benzos just made me feel relaxed but in a lazy way, where alcohol can make me into this social person. I feel that when im drunk nobody knows any different , im this normal guy who is having a laugh, And when im back sober I feel like this guy who just worrys about everything, from health to why are we here, lol. Its truly annoying.

 

[Zeano]

Anxiety is kinda of a mental illness

but I used to smoke weed but stopped now, as I really think it did contribute to panic attacks. but thanks for the advice. I guess sometimes I think its not too bad, because I imagine lots off people drink 3-4 drinks a day?

whether it be cans at home, pints in the pub, wine with dinner, brandy at meetings, after work drinks etc etc. And I have gone onto other forums and about alcholics, and they seem to be drinking pints of vodka at a time.....maybe im just being very naïve?

Back in medieval times especially in france, I believe they did not have much if any fresh drinking water, so they literally drank beer 99% of the time.

 

[Zeano]

Sure, but 15 mg diazepam is far less destructive than drinking 4 pints a day! Even though it's "just beer", ethanol is still ethanol - it damages your liver and fucks around with metabolism.



Given that there's about 2.8 standard drinks in an English pint (568ml) of 5%ABV, 3-4pt a day is between 8.5 and 11 standard drinks a day (according to the UK gov't). That's a lot...

After doing my own little bit of research on the UK drink aware website. Your figures do not appear right? A male in the UK is recommended no more than 3-4 units a day. And 4 pints of fosters (which is what i drink) at 568ml works out at 9.2 units. which is just over double my recommended daily intake. Which I agree is not healthy.....but its not crazy? is it?

 

[bunge]

Its not about the amount you drink OP or even what you drink.
I believe what sekio was driving at (apologies if im wrong sekio) is that the way you talk about alcohol shows the hallmarks of addictive behaviour.
For instance, having to drink to feel capable of socializing, waiting for an 'acceptable time' to drink and rewarding yourself with extra alcohol.
These are all alarm bells for a growing alcohol dependence.
If you have a genuine anxiety condition then self medicating with alcohol will end in tears i can assure you.
If your unhappy with the side effects from diazepam then pregabalin (lyrica) could be a good option for you. Its generally well tolerated and while very effective for anxiety it doesnt have the very pronunced effects of the benzos.
Either way another chat with your doctor is the best advice we can give you.

 

[.:Holy::Toast:.]

Alcohol can create withdrawal symptoms nearly identical to benzos including length and chance of seizures and Death, it just takes a much longer period to develop physical withdrawal symptoms.
I'd stick to the benzos, but if you have the money or are covered by insurance or a form of socialized healthcare id seek out a psychiatrist and try cognitive behavioral therapy.
It's supposedly a long difficult road but if done correctly could remove a large portion of your anxiety and possibly leave you drug free, or atleast much less dependent.

 

[sekio]

Four warning signs that you may be dependent on alcohol

Worrying about where your next drink is coming from and planning social, family and work events around alcohol.
Finding you have a compulsive need to drink and finding it hard to stop once you start.
Waking up and drinking – or feeling the need to have a drink in the morning.
Suffering from withdrawal symptoms, such as sweating, shaking and nausea, which stop once you drink alcohol.

If you’re worried that you have any of these symptoms of alcohol dependence, talk to your GP or seek further information from one of the organisations at the bottom of this page.

The government advises that people should not regularly drink more than the daily unit guidelines of 3-4 units of alcohol for men (equivalent to a pint and a half of 4% beer) and 2-3 units of alcohol for women (equivalent to a 175 ml glass of wine). ‘Regularly’ means drinking every day or most days of the week.

Just because it's socially accepted and other people have worse habits than you do, doesn't mean that consuming 4 pints a day is good for you. (The life expectancy of obligate beer-drinkers is much lower than that of modern humans, and with the advent of sanitation you no longer need alcohol to sterilise all your drink)

Finding ways to justify your consumption when it might be excessive, or getting defensive when confronted, is another sign that you might have a problem with alcohol.

If you can't stop drinking (specifically) without feeling uncomfortable, that's not normal. There are all sorts of ways to relieve stress, there has to be something else besides alcohol that works. In the long term, consuming alcohol every day is not good for you - it damages the liver, the mind, and the body - especially if you binge on alcohol.

It is not normal to drink 3-4 pints a day at minimum, with added binge days on that too. Eventually your body will wear out. You should talk to a counsellor or doctor about this - they can help you find ways to deal with anxiety that won't be so destructive in the long run. You don't have to stop drinking right away; just start working towards improving your situation. Think about what's going to happen when the amount you're currently drinking doesn't work for you any more?

And if you're not fixing the underlying anxiety - just masking it with alcohol, who's to say you're any better off consuming it all the time? When it wears off it will just make your anxiety even worse.

It's good that you recognize you might have a problem. Don't be decieved into thinking that because other people have worse problems than you, that you're in the clear, though.

 

[CaveBear]

im 42, my liver is shot. after all the benzos, heroin, coke, weed, and a variety of other pills. alcohol is going to kill me. plain ole beer is my death sentence. pretty soon 3-4 pints wont give the desired effect and you'll be drinking 5,6,7,8..etc pints a day, everyday just to feel "normal". you wont be waiting till 5pm to drink because you'll wake up with the shakes and NEED a few pints just to get right. find another way to overcome your anxiety or you'll die an early death just like im going to. best wishes - Bear.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Consume some weed (instead of alcohol) some nights to break up your alcohol consumption if it is a real issue, nothing wrong with doing that in my opinion - unless you have an underlying mental illness...

Yes but continuing to smoke weed in adult years would make someone become a looser.

 

[Jabberwocky]

im 42, my liver is shot. after all the benzos, heroin, coke, weed, and a variety of other pills. alcohol is going to kill me. plain ole beer is my death sentence. pretty soon 3-4 pints wont give the desired effect and you'll be drinking 5,6,7,8..etc pints a day, everyday just to feel "normal". you wont be waiting till 5pm to drink because you'll wake up with the shakes and NEED a few pints just to get right. find another way to overcome your anxiety or you'll die an early death just like im going to. best wishes - Bear.

Exercise, Sleep and Diet!

- Join a rehab.
- Talk to a doctor.
- etc.

 

[bunge]

Yes but continuing to smoke weed in adult years would make someone become a looser.

İ started to get angry at the ignorance obviously evident in this statement...
İ know plenty of successful, intelligent longterm cannabis smokers.
However, the thought occurred quickly to me that someone that comes out with such inane comments and gets a kick out of patronizing people with drug problems, all the while being unable to spell "loser", is likely not worthy of my anger in the first place.

 

[CaveBear]

Exercise, Sleep and Diet!

- Join a rehab.
- Talk to a doctor.
- etc.

Done, done, done. 5 rehabs, a dozen detoxes, doctors, shrinks, AA, NA. I'm done trying to abstain completely. I smoke more weed now than I do drink and although I drink frequently my volume has dropped considerably. I used to drink up 24 12oz beers a day. Now its more like 6-10. I attribute this mostly to smoking more. I dont want to die, I enjoy my life as it is now. I've just come to accept my life for what it is and were its going. Once I did that, I've felt more peace and contentment than ever before.

 

[.:Holy::Toast:.]

The fact remains that 6-10 beers a day could very easily kill you if continued.
Hell there are some of the old resilient drinkers who are 75 and drink a case a day and smoke two packs a day and are still alive, but that's very rare, and any I've seen their quality of life is absolute shit

 

[CaveBear]

The fact remains that 6-10 beers a day could very easily kill you if continued.
Hell there are some of the old resilient drinkers who are 75 and drink a case a day and smoke two packs a day and are still alive, but that's very rare, and any I've seen their quality of life is absolute shit

I'm not changing my lifestyle any further than I have. I gave legit sobriety a run a few times, staying sober for a few years each time. I'm done now. I'll smoke and have my beers and when my times up, its up. I'm a heroin addict that od'd and died in 2008, havent touched it since that night, not one time. I used to do a large amount of coke, no more. I do occasionally take some pills, buts its kinda like a once every few months type a thing now. My life is pretty good, other than a bum liver, my health aint to bad. Thing is, with liver failure, you just never know when it could just stop working. I'm not yellow, I have no pain. My quality of life hasnt as of yet been affected other than fatigue. My Dr basically told me it could be 6 months -2 years. That was about 10 months ago. I dont buy into her time frame to be honest. My liver function numbers are in the high 200's - 300's..thats very high so I know damage is being done. Hell as far as I know it could be 10 years. I'm ok with it either way.

All I can do now is attempt to warn others of what my type of lifestyle can lead to. An early death with the booze and immediate death when you decide to load up a spike, once you push the plunger, you never know.

 

[blight12]

Ok cant comment on the causes of your anxiety (which are always very specific and personal and require detailed info), bit i can comment on the relationship between alcohol and anxiety on a practical experience level.

Unfortunately and fortunately on a practical basic and non risk considered level alcohol is a amazing anti anxiety drug, one of the best.

But thats only when you are under the short lived effects.

The problem is that when it wears off and especially the next day during the hangover (which means the withdrawals), the anxiety returns with a vengeance and mimics the anxiety caused by the issues you started drinking in the first place for, further justifying another drink to feel the relief provided by the intoxicated period.

The result is that you want to drink drink again to quell the anxiety and end up living live life with a perpetual hangover effect thinking the alcohol is giving relief (which it definitely does during intoxication )but not knowing that you only need the relief because you where hungover and suffering amplified anxiety due to perpetual withdrawals/other after effects in the first place.

I went many years self medicating with a bottle of hard alcohol a day starting due to seemingly heavy anxiety and PTSD (benzos, even the strongest didnt work as well) and only recently when i stopped (with much help and effort) did i realize the anxiety was 85% alc addiction related and 15% real issues which where piss compared to the anxiety amplification from alcohol.

I realized i had succumbed to the perpetual anxiety hangover "must drink more every day to feel better" cycle of doom thats all to common.

It takes about 5 days off alcohol to feel the reduction in anxiety and identify how you would feel without medicating with alcohol. Its an amazing experience if you can get there. Recently assisted a family member with the same thing and they are amazed at how negligible and utterly manageable without medication their anxiety is after stopping drinking compared to what level they thought the anxiety was at justifying their need to drink.

Alc is the worst thing for anxiety based on many years or personal experience. What i will say is that suffering through anxiety medicating with alcohol makes anxiety when off alcohol seem like child's play. I guess its like learning the hard way, but puts things in perspective, if thats your thing.

 

[bukweat]

Like my sponsor tells me at least once a week; Dammit Bukky the rationalization will send you right back to where you were.

 

[Psychedelic Jay]

It’s all on your rational...

They are both going to put you in the same boat anyway...