Mental Health Mindfulness-induced panic attack?

[Red Moon]

Warning: TL;DR because I don't know limits. Maybe just read the last two paragraphs if you don't want to read my life story.

I give in, Bluelight. I deleted all my posts in the past because I realized I had almost nothing to add to this community and didn't really feel comfortable enough to have real, open discussions about things. Visiting some of the forums outside of the Recovery section was bad for me, as well, since it made me think "oh, maybe I should try this/that drug..." and I ended up blowing my extremely limited funds on things that have no value to me. I can barely even believe I have a drug problem at all considering how indifferent or hateful I am towards most drugs that everyone else seems to think are gifts from the gods (opiates, stimulants, cannabis, anyone...?)

But I'm back now, because my anxiety has gotten to the point where I can't just distract myself away. I've been to the ER. I've researched anti-anxiety and antidepressant meds so I have an idea of what I personally should refuse should I be prescribed with something I know will cause harm to me with my unique medical situation. But this process has been absurd... It took far too long to get an initial appointment with a therapist. This initial appointment did not offer any therapy, either, it was just to go over all of my history for two incredibly stressful hours even though I spent two incredibly stressful hours filling out the paperwork they mailed me that asked the exact same questions. At the end of that appointment I practically had a panic attack when I discovered that I can't get in to a psychiatrist until the middle of December.

I begged my doctor (very sweet lady that I really want to like, but I really think I need to change because she has never actually paid attention to important facts) for anti-anxiety meds. It didn't have to be benzos like the ER gave me. But she went with that... Gave me half the amount and half the dose of what the ER gave me. 0.5mg of lorazepam never did the trick when I was trying to recover from the ER debacle while also trying to make the meds last as long as possible. To make matters worse, my doctor apparently is expecting me to cut these 0.5mg tablets in half. She wants me to take 0.25mg of lorazepam. 0.5mg pills are NOT scored. You need a pill splitter to take that kind of dose. Because nobody takes that kind of dose. Especially not to kill panic attacks! I know better than to complain about a doctor's judgement so I just took what I got (which amounted to 3 useful doses and an extra 0.5mg tablet that I basically took for kicks and giggles on a particularly sleepless night where neither zolpidem nor zaleplon (combined, fyi; and kids, don't try this at home if you're not experienced with these drugs as I am) were doing the trick.

Now, I have weekly therapy appointments, and I thought maybe this would be good... After I'd gotten calmed down in the ER I was thinking to myself, "I need therapy. I need medication to keep me stable, and I need talk therapy to help me figure out what is wrong with me and to give me real coping mechanisms instead of the nonsense they taught people 15 years ago." I thought maybe I could make the 3 doses of lorazepam and 20mg of etizolam I had purchased with the very last of my money get me through to mid-December. Optimistic on my part. The etizolam didn't last all that long because I'm still experiencing high anxiety every day, and I'd much rather take that and be highly functional than take lorazepam and become a zombie that can only manage to stare at the TV all day.

In my first real appointment, the therapist basically just told me about two methods to cope with anxiety. The first was the kind of form where you try to rationalize your way through it, like, "what's the best/worse/likely consequence" and "will this affect me a week/month/year from now." Same bullshit they taught me 15 years ago which I'd already tried to use even this year just because rationalizing things is such a rational thought that you'd think it would work. But emotions aren't rational. Even if they were, I've had plenty of negative experiences that happened, guess what? 15 years ago! They still bother me today! I cannot even THINK about taking an SSRI without breaking down crying because of what Celexa did to me when I took it as a child. That's just one of many examples, mind you.

The second was Mindfulness. She described this as kind of just focusing on and describing your physical surroundings, and redirecting your mind back to them when it wanders (which she said it absolutely would wander, so it's not like I was stressed about this). She wanted me to practice it for 1-2 minutes twice a day. For the first few days, it did nothing. But yesterday it did something. Did it ever. It brought on a full-blown panic attack. I don't even understand how or why. It came on very fast, and I had to use meds to end it after spending a few hours just trying to cry it out. When I woke up, it kind of came back even though I didn't try Mindfulness again. So there goes another dose. I have meds to kill off one more panic attack and that's rather frightening to me with how unstable I am right now. Going back to the therapist in a few days is going to be really difficult for me. I don't even know what to tell her. This isn't supposed to happen.

Has ANYONE ever heard of Mindfulness causing panic attacks like this? The only thing I can think of for why it could have possibly happened is that it puts me in an intentionally obsessive mindset when I'm already a very obsessive person, so it just takes one slip into a negative thought and I'm gone. I don't know if that's what happened, but it's my best guess. Does anyone have any input on this whatsoever? Suggestions?

 

[herbavore]

It sounds to me like maybe when you were trying to practice mindfulness you were overwhelmed with something that must be dammed up inside. I have used both of the techniques that your therapist is pushing and they were both very successful for me but every mind is different. Do you know the source of your panic attacks? Are they related to past trauma or are they seemingly without roots?

 

[CfZrx]

I hear ya Red! I was actually just thinking to myself about "I wonder if anyone else ever feels a pointless/stupid feeling when they try to do mindfulness. It doesn't happen to me every time, but the other day I went to a buddhist 1 hour get together with 30 min meditating, and 20 minutes walking meditating, and what do ya know, it felt somewhat like a waste of time. Sorry you feel so unstable right now. Sounds like just talking is better right now for you...or typing

 

[AuraLee]

I have had a love-hate relationship with mindfulness. I've always felt like what's the point, it won't work, my anxiety is too strong for this, I can't do it, it's too hard etc., but in one of my topics at uni, we did various mindfulness techniques at the start of each lesson. And it actually worked like it should. Since then, my mind still rebels against it but a) previous experience allows me to know it does work (so that calms my anti-) and b) I try to use the techniques in daily life, as opposed to doing the full exercise.

I can think of a few reasons you might panic during mindfulness:
1) the more you TRY to calm your mind, the harder it is "omg, my thoughts aren't doing what I'm telling them to. Ah damn, I got distracted again. Why can't I calm it?" "Omg I'm thinking! Now I'm thinking about thinking! Now I'm thinking about thinking about thinking! Where does this end??? SO META!"
Whereas the point is to be chill with it. Like "ooh I do believe I planned to not think about that, but it's cool. I shall now return to my regular programming" - repeatedly.
(Obviously that's just the attitude, thinking that many words would interrupt it.)
Point is, practise makes it easier.

2) when you're relaxing, it is basically very similar to hypnosis. That can blur the lines in your mind and you can tend to be more emotionally vulnerable, because conscious thought is being dampened and you're on a more instinctive level. So if there is stuff beneath the surface or heavy ambivalence, it can cause emotion, then the anxiety impedes the ability to calm it.

Re obsessions (and even compulsions) what I do is keep mentally (or verbally) saying some version of "Stop" and shortcut the thought/behaviour. It usually starts right back up again but I repeatedly shortcut it over and over and over. Sometimes that enables me to exit the loop faster than I would have otherwise.

One of the most important things is to be accepting of yourself and what your mind is doing. Adding self-blame/shame/frustration on to it causes an entirely new block to getting anywhere (and extra anxiety). The veil of "why can't I control this?/why do I do this?" needs to be released to then enable all the self-work, self-mind-manipulation to begin. (Which is hard enough on its own.)

 

[herbavore]

^wonderful post.

 

[Red Moon]

I'm wondering if you're on to something with your first post, herbavore. But I couldn't tell you. I've had a number of experiences in my life that may or may not have been traumatic. I have no idea what things I might be damming up. I guess I'll get back to you on that a different time, since it seems my therapist is finally starting to actually read through and ask details about the forms I had to fill out. We might end up talking about those things at some point (although I don't really want to...) and maybe she can give me some insight then. For now, all I can tell you is that I don't remember what set me off that time. It might have been seemingly nothing (that would explain why I can't remember it) or maybe it was something that I latched on to but just forgot about because I started being upset about the fact of having a panic attack while trying to practice Mindfulness instead.

I wasn't concerned about my mind wandering or doing it wrong or anything, since I was warned that my mind would wander and that at this point I'm only practicing to get better at it. I've really only just started. But your 2nd point, AuraLee, might very well be what happened... Thanks for your post.

She told me she wants me to keep trying despite the panic attack, and even if anxious thoughts start coming on, to just notice them in a very passive way. Like, "oh, I might be getting a tad anxious. Check out that tachycardia." or something, and continue to observe and describe other things.

 

[herbavore]

We might end up talking about those things at some point (although I don't really want to...) and maybe she can give me some insight then.

I have found that my best teachers, my best healers, are the things I initially want to bury, deflect or run from.

She told me she wants me to keep trying despite the panic attack, and even if anxious thoughts start coming on, to just notice them in a very passive way. Like, "oh, I might be getting a tad anxious. Check out that tachycardia." or something, and continue to observe and describe other things.

I've actually found it kind of fun to learn to notice my thoughts from outside. It's a relief to be like some casual observer saying, "there she goes again with that tired old blaming bullshit. Wonder when she will get tired of pulling that thought out again?"

 

[LuiBliss]

Check this out, a different but very similar experience that occurred while meditating:-

 

[Cosmic Trigger]

I find doing the body scan "meditation" is the best way of doing something mindful with less chance of things going weird. When you do this with focus there is little chance that your mind can think on/about itself if you get my drift. I'm sorry you're struggling with all this. I've heard of regular meditation backfiring many times with many people and it's not for everyone. Just ask U G Krishnamurti lol. He thinks it's one of the worst things most people can do to themselves like in the video above. UG's got a very interesting take on it.

 

[LuiBliss]

I find doing the body scan "meditation" is the best way of doing something mindful with less chance of things going weird. When you do this with focus there is little chance that your mind can think on/about itself if you get my drift. I'm sorry you're struggling with all this. I've heard of regular meditation backfiring many times with many people and it's not for everyone. Just ask U G Krishnamurti lol. He thinks it's one of the worst things most people can do to themselves like in the video above. UG's got a very interesting take on it.

The video above discuses a body scan meditation. Which is essentially what the vipassana meditation is. Ofcourse, the combination and history of the individual also has an effect on the result.

My question to you is, what is it you are referring to about 'U G Krishnamurti' can you please share a link to what you are trying to say, thanks.

 

[Cosmic Trigger]

I don't agree or disagree. I do think he often makes valid points about humanity and spirituality etc.

 

[Bella P]

I have ptsd and at times can suffer from derealisation.
Mindfulness, for me, only works if I focus on my physical surroundings. i rub my hands over the couch or my pants, I focus on the temperature around me, I also (at times of desperation) will stab myself with a sewing needle to bring my mind back to the present.

Anxiety is a bitch but make that bitch work for you. IF its trauma related (like me) just remind yourself that basically the worst thing ever has already happened and you survived it.

Best of luck. its a hard life but its still a life x

 

[LuiBliss]

I would hate someone to take away my meditation. It is a time of peace. And if I want to deeply contemplate about something, whether material or eternal I can.

How can being with yourself, and posing yourself questions be evil. This is absurd.

How can watching your breath, which is the essence of meditation be evil. Watching something that is very real and based in reality. The breath which connects from your internal body to the external life. That which is life, be evil, please explain.

 

[herbavore]

How can being with yourself, and posing yourself questions be evil. This is absurd.

How can watching your breath, which is the essence of meditation be evil.

I agree. Reminds me of the old days when they warned people not to touch themselves because it was "evil". Evil has one definition as far as I'm concerned and that is wanting to cause pain and suffering to another living being.

 

[Red Moon]

Mindfulness, for me, only works if I focus on my physical surroundings. i rub my hands over the couch or my pants, I focus on the temperature around me, I also (at times of desperation) will stab myself with a sewing needle to bring my mind back to the present.

Anxiety is a bitch but make that bitch work for you. IF its trauma related (like me) just remind yourself that basically the worst thing ever has already happened and you survived it.

Maybe that's what I need to focus on. Just my physical surroundings. I was still having problems with it so my therapist suggested I try some guided meditation, and while that didn't bring on any panic attacks, I felt like I was going to come close to one when it told me to focus on my breathing and my heartbeat... There was also one that asked to focus on your face/head, and how it feels, and when I did that I just felt this huge pressure in my head. It's like everything is too intense when I have to focus on it, or something, at least when it comes to my thoughts and body. Unfortunately, I've tried over and over to tell myself that my life will never be as bad as it was, that it's in the past and it doesn't have to control my future... but it doesn't seem to help me. :/

I also had a sneaking suspicion about something and dug out an old psychological workup from the Mayo from when I was ten. It confirmed what I thought -- I'd already had cognitive behavioral therapy. No wonder only the mindfulness meditation seemed new to me. I've been trying to make CBT work for years from therapy I had over 10 years ago without even realizing it. I talked with my therapist about it and pretty much told her that I don't think CBT is ever going to work for me, given the amount of time I've been trying to use its techniques to deal with my life. So she decided that she wants me to try to compress any negative thoughts that spiral out of control into a single sentence metaphor and see if that can help me to be able to move away from getting stuck on the thoughts.

She also wants me to write down, in as much detail as I can, at least as much as I can tolerate it, everything that happened to me during the worst part of my life (when I was a kid, unfortunately). We kind of came to the conclusion during my last session that the reason I cannot think or talk about it long before breaking down into tears and huge anxiety may be because I've never actually processed what happened to me as an adult. I cannot think about it rationally, because I've never given myself the chance to. All I'm stuck with are the emotionally-charged memories of everything I felt back then, just way more intense because years of those feelings come back to me all in one moment. This isn't going to be fun, but I'm hopeful that it might make some kind of difference, at least with regards to that issue...

I guess there wasn't really any point in posting this. It probably didn't really call for a follow-up post, but there you go.