Stimulants Microdosing Amphetamines

[Zon]

Next week I will start to try microdosing amphetamines (speed). I'd just like to ask a few questions and also if there is anything I should know before I do?

I've of course already read the FAQ (http://www.bluelight.org/vb/archive/index.php/t-197113.html), although it doesn't speak much about microdosing.

My plan is to mix the powder in a water bottle, as I won't know how pure it is I will start drinking small measured amounts every hour to find out the correct dose, (likely something around 10-20mg) then continue with that dose once or possibly twice in a day, no more than 3 times per week when I need to be productive. I also plan to take breaks where I won't use it for a few weeks every now and then, but how often I am not sure.

Do you think this is a good amount to not become addicted or increase my tolerance too quickly? I generally don't have an addictive personality, but I'd like to make a plan and strictly stick to it to avoid going down dark roads which I know many people have.

 

[Jabberwocky]

Next week I will start to try microdosing amphetamines (speed). I'd just like to ask a few questions and also if there is anything I should know before I do?

I've of course already read the FAQ (http://www.bluelight.org/vb/archive/index.php/t-197113.html), although it doesn't speak much about microdosing.

My plan is to mix the powder in a water bottle, as I won't know how pure it is I will start drinking small measured amounts every hour to find out the correct dose, (likely something around 10-20mg) then continue with that dose once or possibly twice in a day, no more than 3 times per week when I need to be productive. I also plan to take breaks where I won't use it for a few weeks every now and then, but how often I am not sure.

Do you think this is a good amount to not become addicted or increase my tolerance too quickly? I generally don't have an addictive personality, but I'd like to make a plan and strictly stick to it to avoid going down dark roads which I know many people have.

I think I get what you are saying regarding dosages but just to be sure - you plan on taking 10-20 mg once to twice a day, 3 times a week. That would obviously be 10-40 mg mg a day on the days that you take it. If we are talking pure amphetamine or close to it, when this is by no means a microdose (at least in my mind, a microdose is any amount below the threshold for conceivable subjective effects - as in, you'll only really know what the drug is or isn't doing by looking at it in retrospect)

Regarding your last question, I think that the dosage is less important than the intensity of the experience so I would start low, titrate slowly and find out what works best for you, while keeping in mind that any dosage capable of producing euphoria and/or slight mania should be lowered. Once you've found your spot, it is crucial that you don't start increasing. If you start to notice some tolerance development (and you most likely will) then it's time for a break, not increase in dosage.

If you go through with this then make sure that you have a proper diet and sleeping pattern - it will make the amp work better with less side effects IME.

You might also want to look into supplementing with magnesium (citrate or chelated) and antioxidants.

 

[Hodor]

10-20 mgs of amphetamine twice a day isn't "microdosing", that's just regular "therapeutic" dosing.

Might as well get a script for Adderall - unlike street speed, that stuff is consistent in how much amp it actually contains (cue obligatory "But my dealer is like the most trustworthy ever and his stuff is 95% pure with no crash at all" protesting ) and you'll be less tempted to abuse it when you're given a set number of pills instead of having a big pile of powder / bottle of liquid sitting before you.

 

[Zon]

Yeah maybe 10-20mg is too much. Honestly I have no idea how much the sweet spot will be for me, I don't have microscales or 100% pure stuff anyway so it will just be about trial and error with my first dose of a batch and then stick to that. I definitely don't plan to use it for pleasure though, just enough to be motivated and productive, not a drop more or less

I will likely find out with my own experience soon but when people do this is it usually with a single dose or several smaller doses? As I know adderall is taken up to 3 times per day unless it is extended release.

Oh and adderall is not allowed for adults in my country, otherwise I would go for that :/

 

[nasir~]

Agree about the fact that this wouldn't be 'microdosing'.
More like “therapeutical“ dosing, like hodor said before.

If the OP is NOT from North America, Adderall won't be obtainable.
Some countries like the UK and Switzerland actually have rx Dexedrine.
Germany for example used to have mainly just Mph., and even that only covered by insurance if you are under 18 years old.

Now we have sth. called “Medikinet adult“ , for adult ADHD. The only stimulant for adults that is covered by insurance here.

Also we recently got “Elvanse“(which is just european brand vyvanse) and “Attentin“(dexamphetamine, 5mg tablets). Those are _really_ expensive because -again- It's not covered by insurance .

Furthermore there is also racemic amphetamine and dexamphetamine obtainable when you ask/ 'engage' a pharmacy to make you -for the lack of a better word- a homemade generic. This works out quite cheap actually.

So you might visit a doctor, right?

 

[Lylawinesnob]

Depends

Yeah maybe 10-20mg is too much. Honestly I have no idea how much the sweet spot will be for me, I don't have microscales or 100% pure stuff anyway so it will just be about trial and error with my first dose of a batch and then stick to that. I definitely don't plan to use it for pleasure though, just enough to be motivated and productive, not a drop more or less

I will likely find out with my own experience soon but when people do this is it usually with a single dose or several smaller doses? As I know adderall is taken up to 3 times per day unless it is extended release.

Oh and adderall is not allowed for adults in my country, otherwise I would go for that :/

So, I understand what you are saying. I personally use meth instead of adderall, I get high occasionally, but rarely. It MUST be in small frequent doses. If you use a large amount you get very high until it wears off. Get to your inspiration place and stop. Then when you start to drop, edge it up with just a touch more. I like to be focused and I don't have health insurance anymore, so I switched to meth. The problem is that what works at first won't continue to work, a gram used to last me 9-13 days, now it only lasts 3-5. I sleep every night, eat healthy foods, and am all around a successful, thoughtful motivated adult, unlike when I am not using. I would be cautious about eating it, in my experience the euphoria is wild, like molly. I tend to think only about sex when I eat it. If I smoke it then I can bang out week of work like nothing. I will say this, Meth/Speed/Etc is a tool to be used. You can use the tool to your advantage, but be cautious. You use the drugs, do not let the drugs use you. I had a moment where I thought, "fuck I NEED to get high". I immediately put it down and walked away for two weeks. if you ever think you NEED it to manage your life, not just WANT it to give you a push, put it down. Take a break then start again. Better safe than sorry. I have been using in place of ritalin for a long period of time if you have any questions for me.

 

[Zon]

Agree about the fact that this wouldn't be 'microdosing'.
More like “therapeutical“ dosing, like hodor said before.

If the OP is NOT from North America, Adderall won't be obtainable.
Some countries like the UK and Switzerland actually have rx Dexedrine.
Germany for example used to have mainly just Mph., and even that only covered by insurance if you are under 18 years old.

Now we have sth. called “Medikinet adult“ , for adult ADHD. The only stimulant for adults that is covered by insurance here.

Also we recently got “Elvanse“(which is just european brand vyvanse) and “Attentin“(dexamphetamine, 5mg tablets). Those are _really_ expensive because -again- It's not covered by insurance .

Furthermore there is also racemic amphetamine and dexamphetamine obtainable when you ask/ 'engage' a pharmacy to make you -for the lack of a better word- a homemade generic. This works out quite cheap actually.

So you might visit a doctor, right?

Hey Nasir, actually I am also in Germany, donno if you knew that or not What did you mean about asking a pharmacy to make a generic amphetamine? Sounds very interesting.

Am also wondering, do you know if it would be possible to get a prescription for modafinil here if we pay for it ourselves? I asked before and the doctor said no but I'm now wondering if he just meant it isn't covered by insurance for off lable use, but maybe if I am paying it is a different story?

 

[Hodor]

Hey Nasir, actually I am also in Germany, donno if you knew that or not What did you mean about asking a pharmacy to make a generic amphetamine? Sounds very interesting.

A doctor can write you a prescription for Amphetamine sulfate, and a so-called "compounding pharmacy" will custom-make you syrup/pills. Still, seeing as how it's in Anlage Hahanofuckingway of the BtmG, the only way you'll get a script is probably if you were diagnosed with ADHD, showed insufficient response to Methylphenidate (Ritalin/Medikinet/Concerta) and do not raise even the slightest suspicion of been a drug user/seeker.

Am also wondering, do you know if it would be possible to get a prescription for modafinil here if we pay for it ourselves? I asked before and the doctor said no but I'm now wondering if he just meant it isn't covered by insurance for off lable use, but maybe if I am paying it is a different story?

If you've been diagnosed with ADHD or treatment-resistant depression, you may well find a doctor to write you a Privatrezept for Modafinil, yes. It's pretty expensive though, like 200 Euros per month at 2x100mg/day.

 

[nasir~]

Hey Nasir, actually I am also in Germany, donno if you knew that or not

Hey
After some time you get a feeling where a person is from, by subtile hints like the way someone is expressing oneself(regarding language), what kind of infos and details are mentioned, etc.

What did you mean about asking a pharmacy to make a generic amphetamine? Sounds very interesting.

I just realized that I was wording it quite stupid.
What I actually meant was that you could ask a compounding pharmacy to make some kind of adequatly dosed amphetamine-based medication.

I'll try once again in german :Wenn Dir ein Arzt ein Rezept für beispielsweise 20mg Amphetamin(-razemat in der Regel; also “normales“ Amphetamin) 2× am Tag ausstellt, dann kannst Du eine Apotheke bitten dies bereitzustellen.
Dazu muss die Apotheke in der Regel den Rohstoff(Amphetamin) bei einem groß Händler bestellen und dann daraus ein adäquates Medikament herstellen.
z.B. Kapseln mit 10mg. oder 20mg. oder eine Amphetamin-haltige Lösung(In Deutschland oft als “Amphetaminsaft“ bezeichnet)
Das ist deutlich günstiger als alle anderen Varianten.

Am also wondering, do you know if it would be possible to get a prescription for modafinil here if we pay for it ourselves? I asked before and the doctor said no but I'm now wondering if he just meant it isn't covered by insurance for off lable use, but maybe if I am paying it is a different story?

I'm Not sure about that. But you can _definitely_ get an “Off label“ prescription for modafinil.
Btw. Modafinil was always pretty meh for me. Useful for some days, but far from being able to replace amphetamine - not even in the functionality department.

 

[nasir~]

Ah

Just saw Hodor already answered your questions pretty much.

 

[Zon]

Well yeah you are half right I am in Germany but I don't actually speak German very well, but I think I understood the gist of it Anyway I think Hodor is right, it would be extremely difficult to get a prescription for any amphetamine type drugs here, especially without speaking better German... I'll give my original plan a try for now and see how it goes, and keep trying for Modafinil as I think I do at least have a small chance of getting that. I've seen online for around 1 euro per 200mg pill coming from India so not too expensive, just need the script to show the damn Zollamt when it arrives... nothing gets past those guys.. :/

 

[InterestingFACT]

People are reacting to how high the "micro dose" the OP suggested is.

Now, I'm not familiar with European street speed, but I was under the impression that it was usually quite low purity--like 50% or less. I've even heard people claim only 30% or even 10-20% pure by weight (for cheaper, wetter, paste I imagine).

So here's the deal. A 10mg adderall pill contains 2.5 mg of racemic amphetamine sulfate, 2.5mg of dextroamphetamine sulfate, 2.5mg of dextroamphetamine sacharate, an 2.5mg of racemic amphetamine aspartate monohydrate.

These figures are measures of the amphetamine base included in the pill--so it's a 25/25/25/25 molar distribution of the various salts, not based on mass.

This comes out to 7.5mg of dextroamphetamine (base) and 2.5mg of levoamphetamine (base).
---
European street speed is heavily cut racemic amphetamine sulfate. And you'll be measuring by weight of the entire sulfate salt, plus whatever % cut. Now it's important to be aware that the sulfate salt is actually a hemisulfate--meaning that two amphetamine molecules bind to each sulfate molecule to form the salt. This means that while amphetamine base has a molar mass of 135 g/mol, d,l-amphetamine sulfate has a molar mass of 386g/mol (and including two molecules of amphetamine).

Therefore, if you theoretically had 100% pure racemic amphetamine sulfate powder, to get the equivalent amount of dextroamphetamine base in your system (7.5mg/135g/mol = 0.5555 mMols) you would need ~21.5mg of racemic amphetamine sulfate (0.5555 mMols x 386g/mol)--resulting in 7.5mg dextroamphetamine base, 7.5mg levoamphetamine base, and ~6.5mg sulfate counteracid by weight.

Now, this does result in a greater dose of levoamphetamine--which is stimulating in its own right and this should cause a dose adjustment downwards.

However, when you account for the presumed quality of your street speed... At 70% purity you're expecting a ~30mg equivalent dose. At 50% purity, ~40mg. If it's wet paste as low as 20-30% pure you're talking about ~60mg of street product just to reach dose parity with a 10mg adderall IR pill.

His proposed dosages were not out of line. People--especially those of us who've been prescribed amphetamines for years--don't realize how strong adderall is: to someone wth no amphetamine tolerance 10mg WILL have you feeling speedy and even euphoric. I think his proposal of taking 10-20mg of his street speed, maybe twice per day, is a pretty place to guess at appropriate (minimum effective) dosage--at least past the first experience, which is likely to be euphoric almost regardless of the dosage taken).

...now, as to whether it's advisable? Tougher question. If possible, it's always a much better idea to try get a doctor's supervision--though I understand the pain of paying the full cost for Vyvanse--though I have insurance my high deductible means I still pay full price for that medicine and, frankly, a month's prescription of the stuff costs more than a 1-2 year supply of black market meth or amphetamine phosphate at equivalent dosages.

Personally, I stand by Vyvanse as a great, great medicine. Worth the cost, if you can afford it. It's just qualitatively better: it's not moreish at all, due to its extremely long duration and gradual onset, meaning that while dependency may develop, craving and dose escalation is not a problem. Additionally, it's a much smoother ride than other XR or multiply-dosed IR stimulant medications--there's almost no perceptible comedown, and while it enhances focus, it doesn't make you feel like someone who isn't you.

Of course, this is only my own experience, and others may differ in their opinion. And certainly not everyone can afford to spend that kind of money out-of-insurance. I'll admit to supplementing with grey-market or black-market alternatives in order to reduce the number of prescriptions I need to fill per year. And this isn't even getting into the issue of whether you're likely to get a doctor to prescribe it to you, given Germany's tougher stance on prescription stimulants relative to the USA.
---

Whatever you decide to do, be careful. Obviously start slow, and DO NOT SEEK THE HYPERFOCUS. When people first try amphetamines, they feel the hyper-vigilance and motivating effect, and become convinced that that's what it's supposed to be doing for them. The truth is, it's not. Amphetamines will cease to motivate within a few weeks at a constant dosage--your limbic system will adjust. Your pre-frontal cortex, on the other hand, will not--and will in fact eventually become permanently re-wired such that plastic improvements in cortical function will remain even years after you cease taking amphetamines. So just remember, the drug is a tool. And it's job isn't to kick your ass into gear. That's just an early-adopter perk. It's job is only to reduce the number of distracting thoughts that derail you as you attempt to get work done. Just because you stop "feeling" your dose doesn't mean that the dose is no longer effective. Analyze your behavior, not your mindset.

 

[Hodor]

One question: Why don't you go to a psychiatrist, get yourself tested for ADD, and get a script for Methylphenidate ("Ritalin")? While it apparently produces more anxiety than dextroamphetamine, it is still a highly effective stimulant, and your insurance would likely cover the instant release version (and even if they don't it's pretty damn cheap).

If you're looking for straight up stimulation, Ritalin is much closer to amphetamine than Modafinil.

 

[BarryC01]

Yeah maybe 10-20mg is too much. Honestly I have no idea how much the sweet spot will be for me, I don't have microscales or 100% pure stuff anyway so it will just be about trial and error with my first dose of a batch and then stick to that. I definitely don't plan to use it for pleasure though, just enough to be motivated and productive, not a drop more or less

I will likely find out with my own experience soon but when people do this is it usually with a single dose or several smaller doses? As I know adderall is taken up to 3 times per day unless it is extended release.

Oh and adderall is not allowed for adults in my country, otherwise I would go for that :/

In England you can have them imported *Adderall and you can pay for them via your Visa and if you don?t receive them they will do you a reship and if you don?t get them after that you paid via Visa you can claim the money back from them or your bank. You have to search online. I did, I found more than one site. Not as many as you would think. Most of them sounded really good then you would check the payment options and all there is is Western Union etc and umm no. No falling for it. If there is zero safety net don?t go for it. I?m (in a few days) ordering some Phenylpiracetam that mimics the effects of Adderall with zero side effects and is a Racetam. Until I can get Adderall I am going to put about 10-15mgs of Amp? in the tabs. Phenylpiracetam lasts 4 hours so you would probably need two tabs a day but if you can afford it it is well worth it. (So I?ve heard). I?ve been addicted to the stuff Amp? a long time ago and never want to go through that rubbish again. But I know the benefits outweigh the cons.