Meyers-Briggs and psychoactive drugs

[ebola?]

Let's speculate on how certain chemical agents might alter certain personality types in different ways.

I think that perhaps and INTP on stimulants may become more of an INTJ...or, or, perhaps the functional breakdown changes from Ti, Ne, Si, Fe to Te, Ne (or maybe there's more sensing going on overall), Se, Fe. I'll have to think about it more.

The funny thing is, even on GABAnergics, I'm more apt to clean and organize stuff than when sober.

Anyone have some other speculations?

ebola

 

[qwe]

I/E introverted / extroverted
N/S intuition / sensing
T/F thinking / feeling
P/J perceiving / judging

before you speculate, get the exact meanings of these words for this particular personality test: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myers-briggs#Concepts

I think that psychedelics tend to pull one from (E) to (I), he can't help but dive in when so many amazing aspects of his mind are illuminated. softening the ego, there is not much of a pre-built framework with which to judge actions, and of course the user is much more 'in the moment' so psychedelics would also pull one from (J) to (P). thoughts get much more abstract, what's in front of you may or may not be real. this is obviously a pull from (S) to (N) [sensing individuals prefer tangible data, iNtuition people prefer a theoretical abstract approach]. and finally, on psychedelics you are pulled from (F) to (T) because as you ego is softened you approach matters less from the 'inside'... your viewpoint is less influenced by all that junk in your mind.

in sum it seems that psychedelics are 'INTP' drugs, which would explain why in the personality-type and drug use thread, every single INTP except one (and there were tons) listed psychedelics as one of their favorites

GABA depressants (alcohol, benzos) tend to increase primitive emotion and decrease 'cognitive executive functioning' so perhaps from (T) to (F). they tend to make people more responsive to external stimuli, especially emotionally, and increase interpersonal interaction (sometimes in a good way, sometimes in a bad way), so also GABA depressants pull one from (I) to (E)

dopa/nora stimulants tend to also orient one towards his senses/environment. (I) to (E). noradrenaline is the fight/flight guy, and one is on high alert on stims, so i would expect a shift from (N) to (S) as the distressed nervous system gets concerned with the very tangible here-now issues

opioids dont seem to me to cause changes in personality type

 

[ebola?]

>>this is obviously a pull from (S) to (N) [sensing individuals prefer tangible data, iNtuition people prefer a theoretical abstract approach].>>

I speculate that people of differing personality types actually have markedly different experiences on psychedelics. If you intuit....especially if you are an INT*, you will be pulled into the whirlwind of abstract concepts. If you tend to sense, though, you might find yourself instead captivated by the beauty of it all.

ebola

 

[ebola?]

>>
dopa/nora stimulants tend to also orient one towards his senses/environment. (I) to (E). noradrenaline is the fight/flight guy, and one is on high alert on stims, so i would expect a shift from (N) to (S) as the distressed nervous system gets concerned with the very tangible here-now issues>>

I dunno. When I find myself twakked on the stim of your choice, I'm just as apt to babble about epistemology, etc. than do typical sensing type things (seek an experience in the "real world", talk of vivid imagery, etc.). But, yes, there is something to be said about suddenly learning to clean...takes some "S"...takes some "J".

ebola

 

[qwe]

^so then perhaps in sum stimulants are 'ESTJ' drugs

 

[yougene]

Let's speculate on how certain chemical agents might alter certain personality types in different ways.

I think that perhaps and INTP on stimulants may become more of an INTJ...or, or, perhaps the functional breakdown changes from Ti, Ne, Si, Fe to Te, Ne (or maybe there's more sensing going on overall), Se, Fe. I'll have to think about it more.

In this situation it's probably best to look at the state of awareness and stage of development(in addition to typology). Giving a tribal people adderal may not make them an INTJ because their capacity for ranking and hierarchy isn't fully developed.

 

[protovack]

I'll take a stab at this.

First a statement of the obvious: I think the effect of the drug depends on the person's personality type and level of development.

Both ebola (intp) and myself (intj) get extremely abstract, conceptual trips. I'm not sure if we get them in the same way. For example, I've never been scared of ego loss possibly because my well developed introverted inuition confers some sort of "protection" to my psyche. While it is not very well structured, it seems to be "immune to attack." Almost like a boulder dropping into a very deep lake. The initial splash is huge but equilibrium returns rapidly and soon there is no evidence of any event. The boulder becomes buried deep in the bottom and future access to it is difficult.

Whereas for an INTP (and this is all speculation), the loss of an important conceptual construct from the Ti is like a boulder dropping onto a building. Lacking the autonomous "self correcting" mechanism of the lake water, the Ti must meticulously re-build the constructs, piece by piece. But, the boulder remains open to inspection and analysis.

LSD practically killed my auxiliary function, extroverted thinking. I became completely unable to organize my external environment. One possibility is that LSD knocks out the same function/functions in everyone. Or, it knocks out certain functions in certain people depending on what is dominant.

Either way, I think it probably emphasizes what you are already good at. For example, my trips had significant Ni character - feelings of oneness, and that everything was intimately woven together. Maybe people with poorly developed Ni don't experience this at all.

 

[ebola?]

Let me mull this over.
I'll provisionally put forth that this contrast is valid, but also add that LSD seems to thrust me into Ni rather than augment my primary function.

ebola

 

[protovack]

maybe LSD is the "Ni" drug. And stimulants are the "Te" drug!

 

[Manifespo]

I'm ENTP. At Bonnaroo this year, LSD
sent me into a place where my unconscious intentions manifested
through my external environment.
Through aggressive motions of silence during Manu Chao,
I tapped into the external master mind power.

 

[yougene]

maybe LSD is the "Ni" drug. And stimulants are the "Te" drug!

I think this is accurate as a generality.

It's important to remember that drug experiences can be broken down into phases. Stimulants might really increase your cognitive functions during the first hour so, but you're nearly a vegetable a couple hours later. LSD and psychedelics always seem to lead me through a whole spectrum of typologies.

Some models look at typologies as lines of development. As such psychoactive drugs cause fluctuations throughout the various lines. I prefer this perspective because it adds a level of dynamics and depth.

LSD for example sends my spiritual/intuitive(depends on how you want to cut it) line through the roof, followed by a surge in my cognitive line of development. Followed by a surge in my intersubjective line of development. Not very accurate, but it captures the general point.

 

[Aidan of TCC]

This is a very interesting topic, I don't know if anyone's read "Molecules of Emotion" by Candace Pert (she discovered the opiate receptor in the 70s, the first proven to exist), but she makes a very strong arguement that our personalities are largely influenced by differences in individual biochemistry. An extrovert, for instance, might have a naturally active dopamine system compared to an introvert. This would fit hand in hand with the theory that stimulants can change an introvert into an extrovert (which, from observation, appears to be the case from my perspective).

 

[ebola?]

*bump*
I've had a while to mull it over, and I've changed my opinion:

Stimulants: I believe that these make me more chatty and prosocial, leaving my functional preferences intact. I will usually just share my Ti with whoever I'm with.

Psychedelics, including marijuana:
Ni goes into overdrive, with a smattering of Se, with good music, visuals, etc.
I am also prone to psychedelic trauma, however, as Ti is swept out from under me. I am driven to build stable conceptual maps, and some of these contain my self at their root. When all of these crumble with the seeming impossibility of rebuilding them, I panic. I'm getting better at "going with the flow" as I age though.

Empathogens (principally MDMA):
These open doors to extroverted sensing and feeling. It feels good to explore a function that I'm usually incompetent with/disinclined towards.

ebola

 

[qwe]

^cool bump.

yeah, breakthrough psychedelic experiences do take the T from under your feet (ego loss)

i would say they also make you more P instead of J, like a naked observer, when your ego has been either shed a little, a lot, or totally

 

[Rated E]

>>this is obviously a pull from (S) to (N) [sensing individuals prefer tangible data, iNtuition people prefer a theoretical abstract approach].>>

I speculate that people of differing personality types actually have markedly different experiences on psychedelics. If you intuit....especially if you are an INT*, you will be pulled into the whirlwind of abstract concepts. If you tend to sense, though, you might find yourself instead captivated by the beauty of it all.

Good point.

I have noticed that when people who I perceive to be Sensors (who much more often than not are of the Extraverted Sensation variety) have given accounts of their experience with psychedelics, they have tended to focus hugely on the visual hallucinations that they witnessed. Which they explain in terms of colour, shape and form. And also on the physical sensations that they experienced.

I am not suggesting that these people are oblivious to the more abstract effects of the drugs such as the effect on cognitive processes, etc. But that they do not focus as highly on these as a person with a preference for Intuition tends to.

GABA depressants (alcohol, benzos) tend to increase primitive emotion and decrease 'cognitive executive functioning' so perhaps from (T) to (F). they tend to make people more responsive to external stimuli, especially emotionally, and increase interpersonal interaction (sometimes in a good way, sometimes in a bad way), so also GABA depressants pull one from (I) to (E)

This is ok as a general rule. But it has it's limitations in application to individual types, which is what ebola was asking about.

Eg. I, an INFJ, will be very sociable on alcohol or benzos. However if alone, I can get extremely introspective (often in a positive way), I find myself having thoughts about existence and the state of the universe. And just after writing this I came across this:

Either way, I think it probably emphasizes what you are already good at. For example, my trips had significant Ni character - feelings of oneness, and that everything was intimately woven together. Maybe people with poorly developed Ni don't experience this at all.

Excellent. Good to see this worded as such. I relate to this.

 

[Mariposa]

While I recognize that it is natural for humans to look for patterns in behavior, it remains my belief that the MBTI is a flawed system. It discredits those of us who do not fit firmly into one of sixteen categories. Not everyone will fit the subparadigms set forth in this system. I test as an INTJ most often, but others attribute me to be an ENTJ. I could probably test as anything if I were to answer in varying moods.

It is my belief that the MBTI is less a construct and more a hindrance to self-knowledge. It is my further belief that Jung has been taken out of context to the point that the MBTI is pop-psych.

In short, I believe it is useless and counterproductive.

 

[Rated E]

While I recognize that it is natural for humans to look for patterns in behavior, it remains my belief that the MBTI is a flawed system. It discredits those of us who do not fit firmly into one of sixteen categories. Not everyone will fit the subparadigms set forth in this system.

I'd have said that one of its problems is that it is so all encompassing as to be pseudo scientific. But I don't operate under the assumption that MBTI is scientific anyhow.

I test as an INTJ most often, but others attribute me to be an ENTJ. I could probably test as anything if I were to answer in varying moods.

The test is one way of typing people... but I don't think type changes as test results change. One's type is not their test result. But the test result could be one's type.

The other way of typing people is with an understanding of the functions. Labeling behaviour and attitudes as they pertain to a function... in one's opinion.

It is my belief that the MBTI is less a construct and more a hindrance to self-knowledge.

That depends how one views or uses MBTI.

It is my further belief that Jung has been taken out of context to the point that the MBTI is pop-psych.

To me, MBTI is simply a system which organises Jung's functions and makes it more marketable. So yes, pop-psych.


But this is a thread about MBTI and psychoactive drugs, not MBTI itself, of which there are other threads.

 

[MyDoorsAreOpen]

I just took the real trademark Myers-Briggs test for the first time in my life this summer, and it has me pegged for ENFP. Only tested E by a very small margin.

As for the drug part, I wonder if I waffle between I and E based on my marijuana consumption levels. I've only been smoking a little on weekends because I'm back in school and need all the short term memory I can get. But before July, I was a daily user. All the other times I've taken some knockoff of the MBTI, I've been in the middle of a heavy marijuana kick, and when I'm fried a lot, I need a lot of time alone.

I surprised myself with how outgoing I became when I was off the marijuana entirely for a few weeks, including the whole orientation period for my school, and that was when I took the most recent MBTI. Just thought it was kind of interesting.

I put the MBTI in the category of folk philosophy, at this point. It's pretty well entrenched, even though it's a bit blunt of a tool to be useful for a lot of things. It's apparently decent at predicting someone's ideal study habits.

 

[Binge Artist]

A few equations:

Me = INTJ

Me + coke = ESFP

Me + alcohol = ESTJ

Me + opiates = ENFP

Me + cannabis = INFP

 

[ebola?]

It discredits those of us who do not fit firmly into one of sixteen categories. Not everyone will fit the subparadigms set forth in this system.

Can you point to a system of personality typology that does not suffer from this failing? I can point to more nuanced interpretations of the MB that deal with how people deviate from and relate to their types...where the 16 categories are more a jumping off point.

I test as an INTJ most often, but others attribute me to be an ENTJ. I could probably test as anything if I were to answer in varying moods.

Again, how is this specific to MB?

It is my belief that the MBTI is less a construct and more a hindrance to self-knowledge.

My must it be?

ebola