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Meditating and Drugs

swilow

Bluelight Crew
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I'm aware this topic has been discussed before- well, at least meditation has, but I was just interested to see if you guys have much experience meditating on drugs.... Most psychedelic trips involve a bit to a lot of meditation for me, which is a simple matter of shutting your eyes. However, I was curious as to what substances you guys use to meditate (if you do)? I generally don't intentionally take drugs to meditate, though chances are that I'm stoned when I do....

Any suggestions?
 
the use of any drugs bar true psychedelics will not enhance but hinder my meditation practice. the drug may provide an illusion of clarity/calm/insight, but i believe this to be illusion not insight. specifically opiates and the like... how do I wanna meditate while I have no worries, the worries having been blasted away by a process totally alien to meditation?

cannabis is a different issue... my mind is simply all over the place and focusing on anything becomes too hard.
 
I often meditated before X and shrooms (the two drugs which i have a lot of pre-trip anxiety). But one time in the words of 'fear and loathing in las vegas' i was left in a "state of catatonic introspection" for a number of hours when i meditated into a shrooms trip, which scared the shit out of me. so meditating and drugs dont mix for me now.
 
Has anyone used any hearbal oneirogenics or anything when meditating? I find that a strong tea of hops and valerian or mugwort often sets the dreamy mood... I agree with Ximot, meditating stoned is virtually impossible, but theres two distinct types of practice we're talking about- psychedelic/trance meditation and sober.
 
Best psychedelic to mediate on is AMT- the mind just dissolves on a light beam of primordial bliss and happiness. Meditation with that was effortless.

I agree about opiates. They quiet the mind but there's no clarity or insight- just stoned euphoric idleness. But I did love that feeling too....

Stimulants like dexedrine were worthless as well. You could meditate but the impulse to DO something was too distracting- there was no peace there...
 
Doing psychedelics evokes the same states as meditation for me.

I see these experiences as a useful spiritual practice but they aren't interchangeable with meditation. Psychedelics aren't a sustainable or ideal way of inhabiting these states. You do them too much and the neurological noise outweighs the benefit. You stop doing them and many of the insights will slowly recede to the depths of your mind over time.

I wouldn't mix a daily sitting practice with psychedelics. Besides the fact that they serve two different purposes there is also the potential for building unhealthy associations and habits between the two.
 
I have a daily meditation practice, every morning upon rising I sit in half-lotus for 30 minutes and concentrate on my breathing.

Tryptamines often put me into a trance state that is close to what some forms of deep meditation are like.

Meditation is linked to alpha waves in the brain. I theorize psychedelic trance states encourage alpha wave rhythm also.

Have you heard about the theory of synchronization that (re)solves the binding problem of the brain. The binding problem is the problem of how, if there are individual and small groups of neurons that react to highly specific stimuli (such as certain colors, or certain shapes), can all these groups of neurons ‘bind’ together to present each feature as part of ONE object. In other words, how is it that neurons that respond to diagonal lines, straight lines, the color blue, bind together to present a blue triangle as ONE thing rather than simply features ‘floating’ around in the brain.

The theory goes (very simply) that neurons are synchronized together across brain regions by oscillating at similar frequencies (around 40-50hz). The neurons, in a sense, recognize the other neurons that are vibrating similarly and ‘bind’ the features together into one whole (i.e. one object).

Alpha waves are oscillations of (iirc) 8-12hz and they actually have the opposite 'job' as the 40-50hz oscillations. That is, they actually inhibit synchronization and binding of one's surroundings (and I theorize something similar is happening to higher cognitive functions such as one's Self-concept and other higher forms of conceptualization).

So, during deep psychedelic trance states, it is not surprising that there is a realization of unity, of indivisibility...when one is staring down at one's legs or one's hands while tripping hard on a tryptamine one cannot individuate the body from the Earth...they appear as if they are One thing (which they ARE under this conceptual framework with the concomitant feature inhibition by alpha wave rhythm).

I am not surprised (but delighted still) that there are so many similarities to deep meditation states to psychedelic states. I believe they can provide similar stimulus that elicits similar response, not only on a macro-psychological level, but also looking at things on a micro-neurophysiological level.

So, in a sense when one is in a psychedelic trance one is very close to deep meditation. Is there a point to the psychedelic state or to meditation? If there is, and I think there is, then one is in very similar cognitive and neurophysiological states (even though the behavior may be wildly different – in one you are formally still, in ancient yoga positions and in the other you may be crawling through the leaves babbling in gibberish and rubbing your body and the dirt, river rocks, and leaves).

So much to think about. :)
 
Depends on what kind of meditation you're looking for.

I find that small ammounts of Alcohol, Opiates, Nicotine, or Ketamine can help with creating a state of inner calm.

Ketamine in and of itself is enough to create the dissociation sought after by Sufi practices (which is what seems to work most for me, sober or on K). As a matter of fact, whirling (as in whirling dervishes) tends to produce a state very, very similar to that produced by dissociatives, at least in my limited experience. The body and the ego are slowly ground up and anhilated with each whirl untill Nothing is left. Last time I did it, I fell, but didn't notice that I did untill much later, because to me it felt as if I started flying =D.

But I digress. Serotonergics I find difficult for any kind of meditation. Benzos seem to hinder any attempt. Stimulants can be useful or distructive, probably depending on dose and drug, but I haven't experimented much here.

All in all, opiates are the best for meditation, I find. But at the end, I prefer to be sober.
 
There's some interesting conversation or maybe a tricky analogy to be had about the intersection of open eye and close eye visual experience on psychedelics to open or closed eye meditation. Someone smarter than me figure it out. ;)
 
personal opinion but cannabis is much too cognitive of a drug for meditation. I sincerely enjoy closing my eyes in a dark room and exploring my thoughts after smoking (lately, this is the most I can do with this now powerfully psychedelic drug), but its no good for actual proper meditation. Too scattered.

caveat, I don't smoke often, maybe once a month now and when I do its really a full on psychedelic experience, with complete open eye visuals and deep intricate CEVs.
 
/\ that may well be because of your frequent use of psychedelics.Psychedelic use has definitely altered my cannabis high over the years, and is also one reason I feel that it may be beneficial for me not to do it so often.

The way you describe the smoking experience is pretty much how I experience it too - and yet I've been smoking it all the time lately... even socially, in fact especially socially cos I hang out with stoners... and it really just makes me go inward, which is kinda pointless. I'm gonna stop using daily, definitely. Might even help me reestablish and keep a daily meditation practice. I am such a lazy git! Sloth and torpor...
 
samadhi_smiles said:
personal opinion but cannabis is much too cognitive of a drug for meditation. I sincerely enjoy closing my eyes in a dark room and exploring my thoughts after smoking (lately, this is the most I can do with this now powerfully psychedelic drug), but its no good for actual proper meditation. Too scattered.
I think it depends on what you consider meditation. Cannabis always put me in touch with my subtle/dream body(energy circulating throughout the body). I can easily get lost focusing in on it, and fall into deeper states.

I know I'm repeating myself but I don't think it's precise to say that you meditate while on drugs. When you smoke pot do you choose to turn inward or are you drawn inward? When you close your eyes on a good psychedelic dose do you choose to close your eyes or do you feel almost impelled to close your eyes? The chronology and sense of will are the reverse of each other in these two practices.
 
Just finished the book above, Cannabis and Meditation. Whooooaaaaaa:) I was fine until it got onto the last chapters about ways of reaching enlightenment and understanding reality, this is a real headfuck that has made me feel quite strange. Anyone read anything about the Buddhist term 'emptiness'? I didn't realise that meditation like I'd always imagined it to be isn't really the way to get enlightened, it's more about understanding reality and...and....I need to lie down..........:)

LR
 
^^^I've be reading about emptiness lately as well. It's a funny thing because reading or thinking about emptiness gives me these weird rushing 'spiritual' feelings, but reading or thinking about emptiness are almost the opposite of the experience of emptiness itself...

To Willow, If you're still following this thread: I have tried meditating sober, while high on marijuana, and while tripping on 2c-b. I have to agree with others that sober was definitely the most 'useful', though to use that term in regards to meditation seems weird because usefulness only exists in relationship to the ego, and the reason I meditate is to diminish the confusion caused by ego (fucking ego, even this writing is full of it:! ).

High, I've had interesting experiences trying to meditate, but they were interesting in that they allowed me to get deeper into thoughts and whatnot, which isn't really the point of meditation at all imo. I think that a little cannabis might be more beneficial before attempting a more active form of meditation like yoga, as I find it really makes one aware of ones own body.

On 2c-b, my senses, especially hearing, were amplified so much as to make meditation nearly impossible. But if I hadn't attempted to meditate, I never would have realized the degree to which 2c-b enhance ones senses, so there you go...
 
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