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US Politics Mass Shootings and Gun Debate 2021

cduggles

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Old thread:

There was a mass shooting in Atlanta at 3 spas that led to the deaths of at least 8 Asian American women.

Crimes against Asian Americans have been on the rise since COVID.

 
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There was a mass shooting in Atlanta at 3 spas that led to the deaths of at least 8 Asian American women.
Turns out it was a sexually motivated crime, dude had it out for escorts/massage girls.
 
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I've gotta say when I saw a picture of him, I figured it was an Islamic attack because of his beard... but he could be Amish I guess.

 
cduggles said:
the deaths of at least 8 Asian American women

I think 6 of them were Asian. At least one (Paul Andre Michels, 54) was not Asian.

Mr. Long targeted the businesses in retaliation “for providing an outlet for his addiction to sex,” law-enforcement officials said.
 
I've gotta say when I saw a picture of him, I figured it was an Islamic attack because of his beard... but he could be Amish I guess.

Dunno Im getting more reclusive neckbeard compulsive masturbator vibes more than Muslim ones.

Anyway, sad state of affairs, makes me happy to live somewhere where guns aren't a big deal.
 
There have been sex based Islamic terror killings because certain values don't align with the Q'ran. After reading more about the Atlanta shootings, it doesn't seem like this is one of them. I think Bella is right. This guy is just a fucking creep.
 
Atelier3 said:
Imagine blaming sex workers for your sex addiction! Is it the same as blaming drug dealers for your addiction? Or something different?

Blaming sex workers is worse than blaming dealers. If you're selling highly addictive drugs like crack or meth or H or something, you're taking money knowing that there is blood on it. Blaming sex workers for being addicted to sex is like blaming Netflix because you keep binge watching Magnum P.I.

This guy obviously has serious issues. I suspect he probably hates himself for not being able to maintain a healthy consensual relationship with women, but redirects the blame to sex workers. It's not his inadequacies or his neck beard leading him into massage parlours. It's the sex workers fault for being "sirens". They are making him into a pervert. I could be wrong, but I suspect that is probably the gist of it.
 
Is anyone else thinking that these are really sex workers (the women, I mean), but no one is talking about it. Or they weren’t in earlier coverage.

This guy went to three places, all of them staffed by Asians. Either he was in a particular part of town or maybe he had a thing for Asian women? 🤮
 
Is anyone else thinking that these are really sex workers (the women, I mean), but no one is talking about it. Or they weren’t in earlier coverage.

He told police he had a sex addiction and he wanted to eliminate the temptation. I think he either admitted to, or it was suspected, that he had used their services previously.
 
What has been reported here is that they were Asian massage parlours where it was thought that the woman provided extra (sexual) services.
"It was thought." Those places are obvious brothels. You can even find reviews of them on prostitution forums that describe services rendered (up to and including FS. Not just 'happy endings.' Sex.) There's a very good chance the women are trafficked, too. These places often force them to work off debt for human trafficking, confiscating their passports.

There is no question that this was a sex based crime. That the victims were Asian was incidental. That's just who usually provides these services, and they are the most overtly visible and easily accessible form of prostitution.

Connecting these with recent street assaults on Asians is ridiculous. What's more, at least almost all, maybe all, of the perpetrators in those cases were Black. They have their own long standing issues with relations to the Asian community. Nobody is talking about this, and what's even crazier is trying to link in White supremacy and Trump to crimes committed by Black people. It would be hilarious, but it's deadly serious. A very blatant case of media manipulation.
 
This article offered interesting insight into the killings and some of the reactions:

Why do so many straight men come to resent the women they find attractive?​

To be able to experience sexual attraction without it becoming a source of rage requires a degree of respect that the Atlanta suspect, and men like him, do not possess

It’s unclear if Robert Aaron Long, the 21-year-old white man who killed eight people on Tuesday – seven of them women, and six of them Asian women – in a mass shooting across three different massage parlors in the Atlanta area, even knew his victims’ names. After he was arrested and taken into police custody unharmed, Long promptly took responsibility for the shootings. He told officers that he had frequented the massage parlors, which appear to sell sexual services, and that he considers himself to be suffering from a “sex addiction”. He claims that he shot up the massage parlors in order to rid himself of “temptation”. By “temptation” he means, presumably, the temptation that was presented by the women’s existence, and which he thought could be eliminated once they were no longer alive.

Long’s attacks come after a long year of mounting hate crimes and street harassment against Asian people. Reports of anti-Asian hate crimes are up 150% over the past year, and many speculate that the rise in anti-Asian hatred has been provoked by the racist fearmongering of Donald Trump and other Republican politicians, who have blamed the Covid-19 pandemic on what they hatefully term the “China virus”.

Long’s acts have also illuminated the vulnerability of sex workers, whose industry is largely illegal and unregulated, and who have few protections as workers and few opportunities to advocate for better pay, safer working conditions, or greater control over their own bodies and images, and few avenues to avoid or de-escalate confrontations with the police – who frequently arrest, incarcerate or deport sex workers on the flimsy and paternalistic pretext of “rescue”. As sex workers’ rights advocates have long and eloquently argued, the answer to sex workers’ vulnerability is not more policing, as police have often been the source of sex workers’ suffering. Instead, decriminalization will keep sex workers out of jails and prisons – and robust immigration reform will allow those sex workers who come to the US from other countries to work and organize without the exacerbating pressures of possible deportation and debt. When people cannot work in the open, either due to the fear of arrest or deportation, they will not stop working. They will keep working, but under clandestine conditions that make them more vulnerable to exploitation and abuse. As a practical matter, these policy interventions are needed for sex workers to live with greater safety and dignity.

Long, if we are to take his own account seriously, seems to have killed the women because he, personally, found them attractive. His account of his own motive points to a broader problem not only with the status of sex work, but with the dynamics of heterosexuality in a culture that prizes male strength and female submission: Long seems to have experienced his own desire for the women who worked at the parlors as enraging, offensive and intolerable.

The conflation of sexual desire and hate for the object of that desire in male heterosexuality is a pattern that becomes obvious once you know how to look for it. Sexual culture abounds with the eroticized contempt of women, and with the understanding of straight sex, in particular, as implicitly adversarial – a needlessly reductive and limiting understanding of heterosexuality, yet nevertheless a popular one. There is some evidence that even the police officers who arrested Long feel some empathy with his experience of desire for women as an affliction or affront. At a press conference, Jay Baker, the Cherokee county captain, said of Long’s rampage: “He was pretty much fed up and at the end of his rope. It was a really bad day for him, and this is what he did.” The characterization of a man who killed seven women as the victim of a “really bad day” doesn’t make sense unless the person making that claim understands Long’s hatred of attractive women as at least a somewhat legitimate grievance.

Why do so many straight men come to resent and hate the women they find attractive? Maybe it’s a question of power. People often experience being sexually attracted to someone as if that person has a kind of power over them, and for a straight, white man like Long, positioned at the top of so many social hierarchies, this is likely one of his most acute experiences of another person’s power that he has ever faced. For men socialized in a sexist culture where rigid strictures of masculinity dictate that another person’s power over a man constitutes a failure of his masculinity, attraction to a woman can be interpreted as a threat posed by that woman – at least, it can for men of especially weak character. It is not hard to deduce how a racist and sexist man, reared in a culture of white supremacy and masculine entitlement, could experience his own powerlessness over his attraction to the women at the spas as a distressing humiliation. To be able to experience sexual attraction to another person without that feeling becoming a source of shame and rage requires a degree of self assurance and respect that Long, and men like him, evidently do not possess.

But if some men understand their attraction to women as a kind of power that those women hold over them, for women themselves, it often doesn’t feel that way. Unsolicited male sexual attention can often be experienced as threatening – in part, because it is often communicated as a threat. Few women do not have stories of being harassed in public with expressions of desire from male strangers that are explicitly framed as anger. Women receive unsolicited messages from men on social media who begin polite but revert to rageful invectives when rejected or not indulged. Most brutally, when women are murdered, it is usually by a current or former male sex partner – someone who found them attractive. One UK study found that 61% of women killed by men are murdered by a current or former romantic partner. In the US, 1,527 women were killed by a romantic partner in 2017 – more than four women a day. These varying aggressions are not morally equal and do not impact women in the same way, but they do all contain the simultaneous expression of male desire and male rage. If men feel that when they are attracted to a woman, that woman necessarily has more power than they do in their interactions, they should perhaps consider how often men’s attraction to women is communicated with the threat of that desire being enforced, and of the woman being punished for it.

Punishment for his own desire seems to be something that Long wanted to inflict upon the women he killed. It is interesting that Long identifies himself has experiencing sex addiction, a phrase that casts his desire for the women he killed into the realm of the medical. Wanting these women, in his mind, is something that happened to him. But when he felt discomfort with his own sexual desires, Long did not address this discomfort with a therapist or a religious leader. He did not go into a 12-step program for sex addiction – several of which are available, free and active in the Atlanta area. He did not seek out a friend for advice. Instead, he killed seven women and one man. Because he understood his desire as their power – he also understood his desire as their responsibility.

Long says that he patronized the spas where he committed his murders, but it’s unclear if he was ever attended to by any of the women he killed. If he was, it’s not clear whether or not he knew their names. But we do know the names of some of these women. They were Xiaojie Tan, Daoyou Feng, Delania Ashley Yaun Gonzalez, Julie Park and Heyeon Jeong Park. Each one of them deserved better.
 
@cduggles

Interesting article.

The fact that he used the word temptation (plus he's a white American with a neck beard) leads me to think that the killings were influenced by religion. I highly suspect he had a Christian upbringing and was raised to feel guilty for seeking out contractual sex, which he probably had little control over due to being socially dysfunctional. Perhaps in his mind, in a world without pornography or sex workers, there would be no way for him to sin... Obviously that's just speculation.

I try not to call people evil who do wrong, even if they are monsters. I called him a creep before and I'm sure he is a creep, but why is he a creep?

many speculate that the rise in anti-Asian hatred has been provoked by the racist fearmongering of Donald Trump and other Republican politicians, who have blamed the Covid-19 pandemic on what they hatefully term the “China virus”.

There has been a rise in anti-Asian sentiment worldwide. I don't believe it is caused by Trump or the Republican party. There are a bunch of people I know in NZ that are unhappy with China. It's hard not to be. I don't think the term "China virus" is hateful. The Chinese Communist Party is a horrible organization with a long history of serious human rights violations and they totally screwed the world with COVID.

They haven't adequately apologized for mishandling the outbreak. On the contrary, they are photoshopping images of Australian soldiers killing Afghani kids and threatening to destroy trade agreements.

Trump didn't help the situation, but he didn't create it either. China created it. When Biden and Harris blamed the Trump administration for COVID deaths during the presidential and VP debates... I was left wondering, are they willing to blame China at all? If it is not the "China virus", it isn't the "Trump virus" either.

Imagine if the pandemic had come from the USA and the Trump administration had lied to the world about it and tried to cover it up. In that situation. would you be concerned about calling it the Trump virus?

I get that there's a difference. One is a man. The other is a country... but keep in mind that historically viruses have been named after their suspected place of origin. Spanish Flu. Asian Flu. etc.

I can't help but associate COVID with China.

But if some men understand their attraction to women as a kind of power that those women hold over them, for women themselves, it often doesn’t feel that way.

I thought this bit, in particular, was interesting. Some men definitely blame women for this power they have over them. I've known a lot of males that hate pretty women because they perceive them as flirtatious and out of reach. This is why the Islamic religions get women to cover up, because - apparently - men cannot control themselves. The onus is on women to not be attractive, rather than on men to not behave like animals.
 
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