Yeah, I plan on going to law school after college (I'm a philosophy major) and I heard that a good time to take your LSAT was in your jr. year of college, well for me that is gonna be next year, so I was curious as if anyone could offer some helpful hints as to what I gotta expect for the test (ya know like length, type of questions and what not) any help on this would be cool.....
LSAT question for all you lawyers or law students...
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Mahan Atma
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There are many books out there that offer practice LSAT's using old questions.
Don't take the exam until you've prepared for it extensively. If possible, take a course on it; at the very least, do lots of practice exams and study the books out there that give strategies on how to answer the questions.
Presently, the test has three categories of questions. One is reading comprehension. You're asked to read through a passage that is several paragraphs long, usually something that is not legal in nature. Then you answer multiple choice questions on what the author was really trying to say, etc.
Second, there is a category that deals with critical thinking. Typically, you are given a paragraph of facts or a description of some data or a study of some sort, and you are asked to say what kinds of conclusions follow. Usually, these deal with being able to analyze issues of causality between variables.
Third, there is a category of logical puzzles. These are by far the most difficult. They usually involve setting up some constraints and requiring you to work out the implications. They are usually of the form, "Andy, Bill, Chuck and Don are doctors who need to work out an appointment schedule for their patients. Andy can see patients on Monday afternoon, Friday morning, and on Wednesdays, but not on any day Bill sees patients. Chuck can see patients on any day except Tuesday afternoon, Thursday morning and any day prior to Andy. And so on and so on. Who can set up an appointment on Day X at time Y?"
This last category has the questions that require the most preparation, and where you can get the most mileage out of courses/books/etc. Most people, unless they are extremely brilliant, cannot answer very many of these questions correctly unless they have already been taught strategies for solving them. Once you learn the strategies however, you will become vastly more successful.
Finally, there is a writing sample, which some schools ignore. You'll be given some issue, and asked to write down an argument for/against it in a certain amount of space.
Good luck. The key is preparation, the more the better. Do NOT go in and take this test cold, or I guarantee you that you will shoot yourself in the foot, I don't care how smart you are. The required type of intelligence has very little to do with the sort of smarts you need for law school, but schools use it as a way to screen out people who are not seriously committed. You have to demonstrate your level of committment by preparing for the test.
Don't take the exam until you've prepared for it extensively. If possible, take a course on it; at the very least, do lots of practice exams and study the books out there that give strategies on how to answer the questions.
Presently, the test has three categories of questions. One is reading comprehension. You're asked to read through a passage that is several paragraphs long, usually something that is not legal in nature. Then you answer multiple choice questions on what the author was really trying to say, etc.
Second, there is a category that deals with critical thinking. Typically, you are given a paragraph of facts or a description of some data or a study of some sort, and you are asked to say what kinds of conclusions follow. Usually, these deal with being able to analyze issues of causality between variables.
Third, there is a category of logical puzzles. These are by far the most difficult. They usually involve setting up some constraints and requiring you to work out the implications. They are usually of the form, "Andy, Bill, Chuck and Don are doctors who need to work out an appointment schedule for their patients. Andy can see patients on Monday afternoon, Friday morning, and on Wednesdays, but not on any day Bill sees patients. Chuck can see patients on any day except Tuesday afternoon, Thursday morning and any day prior to Andy. And so on and so on. Who can set up an appointment on Day X at time Y?"
This last category has the questions that require the most preparation, and where you can get the most mileage out of courses/books/etc. Most people, unless they are extremely brilliant, cannot answer very many of these questions correctly unless they have already been taught strategies for solving them. Once you learn the strategies however, you will become vastly more successful.
Finally, there is a writing sample, which some schools ignore. You'll be given some issue, and asked to write down an argument for/against it in a certain amount of space.
Good luck. The key is preparation, the more the better. Do NOT go in and take this test cold, or I guarantee you that you will shoot yourself in the foot, I don't care how smart you are. The required type of intelligence has very little to do with the sort of smarts you need for law school, but schools use it as a way to screen out people who are not seriously committed. You have to demonstrate your level of committment by preparing for the test.
shannabanana
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A cheap way to get some practice on the logic section: logic/word problem magazines. You can buy them at the corner store (penny press, dell, etc). They aren't exactly the same, but they start working a part of the brain that doesn't get a lot of exercise.
Dr. J
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Your own university can be a great resource. Usually, there are pre-law clubs around that offer free practice tests under test conditions. I even took a free one offered by Kaplan. You get a score back that tells you what areas you need to work on, etc. The only cost is having to sit through a half hour of them pitching their courses.
Statistically, people who pay thousands of dollars for course work are sometimes no better prepared than for people who take the initiative to study on their own. As Mahan said, practice, practice, practice. The critical reasoning and reading comp are pretty straight forward. As a philosophy student, you should be well acquainted with arguments and their validity, etc. Take a course on logic and critical thinking...this will help. If there's any area that you can study for, it's the logic puzzles. They are the most difficult and annoying part of any test. AND...on one of my tests, I had TWO sections of them. There is always a duplicate section on the exam, but you never know which one is actually going to be scored. However, there are formulas and tables, etc. that can be standardly applied to any number of these logic puzzles, so once you have them down, you will fair much better.
You can get many materials from http://lsac.org , or, as I found, you can get dirt cheap old tests, cd roms, etc. from ebay. Only a fraction of what it would cost you to buy it from the store.
Good luck!!
Statistically, people who pay thousands of dollars for course work are sometimes no better prepared than for people who take the initiative to study on their own. As Mahan said, practice, practice, practice. The critical reasoning and reading comp are pretty straight forward. As a philosophy student, you should be well acquainted with arguments and their validity, etc. Take a course on logic and critical thinking...this will help. If there's any area that you can study for, it's the logic puzzles. They are the most difficult and annoying part of any test. AND...on one of my tests, I had TWO sections of them. There is always a duplicate section on the exam, but you never know which one is actually going to be scored. However, there are formulas and tables, etc. that can be standardly applied to any number of these logic puzzles, so once you have them down, you will fair much better.
You can get many materials from http://lsac.org , or, as I found, you can get dirt cheap old tests, cd roms, etc. from ebay. Only a fraction of what it would cost you to buy it from the store.
Good luck!!
I'm taking my LSAT this June!!! ARRG!!
I'm a Poli SCi undergrad, in my second year.
Best advice I can offer is STUDY STUDY STUDY!
If you aren't going to take the course, then make it realistic (give yourself 35 per sectionj and go through an entire exam!!
I find this helpfully b/c stamina plays a big role, at least for me. After the first two sections my mind starts wonderiung and it takes practice to evetually be able to focus and concentrate for all four section (plus one experimental).
Also, you might want to eliminate a few questions right off the bat...if you find time is slipping when your studying. For example, you might wnat to only do 20 of the 24 reasoning questions in 35 minutes. And just mark C for the rest. Or omit one logic game or reading comp.
All I know is that I've studied realigiously for this test for the past month and a half and I am still antsy and nervous thinking I only have two months left.
But I think deep down I know I am on my way...
WARNING: Get yourself a guidebook...one with REAL LSAT questions/examples...you'll understand why later...
At first its very discouraging especially the logic games but once you sit down and really start practicing you see patterns and reoccuring themes and then it becomes systematic....
The only real issue is the INSANE time pressure you are under, so you have to simulate that in your practice...
Best of luck....
I'm a Poli SCi undergrad, in my second year.
Best advice I can offer is STUDY STUDY STUDY!
If you aren't going to take the course, then make it realistic (give yourself 35 per sectionj and go through an entire exam!!
I find this helpfully b/c stamina plays a big role, at least for me. After the first two sections my mind starts wonderiung and it takes practice to evetually be able to focus and concentrate for all four section (plus one experimental).
Also, you might want to eliminate a few questions right off the bat...if you find time is slipping when your studying. For example, you might wnat to only do 20 of the 24 reasoning questions in 35 minutes. And just mark C for the rest. Or omit one logic game or reading comp.
All I know is that I've studied realigiously for this test for the past month and a half and I am still antsy and nervous thinking I only have two months left.
But I think deep down I know I am on my way...
WARNING: Get yourself a guidebook...one with REAL LSAT questions/examples...you'll understand why later...
At first its very discouraging especially the logic games but once you sit down and really start practicing you see patterns and reoccuring themes and then it becomes systematic....
The only real issue is the INSANE time pressure you are under, so you have to simulate that in your practice...
Best of luck....
I have taken that test and I will disagree with almost everything I've read here.
I would say that you need to take many different tests before the real deal, but this is not for any other reason than familiarity, since it is essentially an IQ test.
You should practice, not study, for at least a month or two prior to test date.
Even the people who improve the most from the first practice exam to the real thing are only going up by a maximum of 8 points or so.
If youre one of the people who considers the logic games and arguments sections fun (like me) you can really make up for a bad undergrad GPA by acing the test and getting into a good school.
I would say that you need to take many different tests before the real deal, but this is not for any other reason than familiarity, since it is essentially an IQ test.
You should practice, not study, for at least a month or two prior to test date.
Even the people who improve the most from the first practice exam to the real thing are only going up by a maximum of 8 points or so.
If youre one of the people who considers the logic games and arguments sections fun (like me) you can really make up for a bad undergrad GPA by acing the test and getting into a good school.
LivinginBPM
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yup.
Carmello's right.
One month. That's all you need. It's an IQ test. Practice will help your read faster and eliminate bad answers faster so you can spend more time thinking.
That's ALL you can do.
Oh, and reading comp isn't that bad. Learn to read discerningly, and there is no reason to get any of those wrong. The two skills you REALLY need are
1. learn the differences between the two "good" answers in arguments so you can pick the "right" one.
2. figure out those damn games.
good luck to all of you who haven't taken it. Truth is, once you're in law school, though, you'll look back and say, "goddamn that shit was easy compared to this."
later
Carmello's right.
One month. That's all you need. It's an IQ test. Practice will help your read faster and eliminate bad answers faster so you can spend more time thinking.
That's ALL you can do.
Oh, and reading comp isn't that bad. Learn to read discerningly, and there is no reason to get any of those wrong. The two skills you REALLY need are
1. learn the differences between the two "good" answers in arguments so you can pick the "right" one.
2. figure out those damn games.
good luck to all of you who haven't taken it. Truth is, once you're in law school, though, you'll look back and say, "goddamn that shit was easy compared to this."
later
magicalmythman
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Question, is it recommended that it be taken in your junior year? im considering doing a masters in poli sci before going on to law school, would it be alright for me to wait to take the LSAT?
Mahan Atma
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magicalmythman said:
Yes, wait to take it. You'll do better then, after having spent time in grad school.
I disagree with some of the above posters. There are tricks to solving the logic puzzles, and you have to do more than just practice them. Find a reference or take a class that teaches you techniques for solving them.
And I think you should take more than a month to prepare, especially if you really want to get into one of the top schools. Look at the LSAT scores for admits to the schools like Harvard, Yale, Stanford and so on. They are in the 98th percentile on average. Unless you are a serious genius, you've got to prepare pretty hard to do that well.
J.T.
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With all due respect, is this a test where if you study infinately hard you can get a perfect score?
NO WAY.
The people who do well are born that way. You can familiarize yourself with the types of questions that they ask (which can buy you a few points, thats it), but there is no "universe of information" that you can continue to learn.
Actually, I have seen people think they are "studying" so hard and when they sit for the test, they are literally frozen by the fact that they havent ever seen a game like this.
You know why? Becayse every one is different, and if you think you can get to know them all, you are setting yourself up for faliure.
To answer the last question, take that shit now. The test is good for 3 years, might as well take it if youre applying by then, an undergrad spring term is per-fect.
NO WAY.
The people who do well are born that way. You can familiarize yourself with the types of questions that they ask (which can buy you a few points, thats it), but there is no "universe of information" that you can continue to learn.
Actually, I have seen people think they are "studying" so hard and when they sit for the test, they are literally frozen by the fact that they havent ever seen a game like this.
You know why? Becayse every one is different, and if you think you can get to know them all, you are setting yourself up for faliure.
To answer the last question, take that shit now. The test is good for 3 years, might as well take it if youre applying by then, an undergrad spring term is per-fect.
Mahan Atma
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I really don't think people who do well on the test are "born that way". All the skills tested for can be learned.
Do it after you've been in grad school for a while. I went through 6 years of grad school (PhD), then took the test and got into a top ranked law school. I can see very clearly that skills I learned in grad school helped me on the exam.
I guarantee you that the analytical skills you pick up in grad school will benefit you greatly. There's no reason to take it now - You will ONLY get smarter in grad school.
Do it after you've been in grad school for a while. I went through 6 years of grad school (PhD), then took the test and got into a top ranked law school. I can see very clearly that skills I learned in grad school helped me on the exam.
I guarantee you that the analytical skills you pick up in grad school will benefit you greatly. There's no reason to take it now - You will ONLY get smarter in grad school.
magicalmythman
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You learn your whole life until you cannot learn any further.
During high school one of my teachers used to always through logic puzzles and questions at us for fun, never really understood why till i got to see the LSAT. During my freshman year in college i took senior level courses that emphaized anaylzing articles closely. I believe your whole college life is a preparation for the LSAT its just how well you choose to apply yourself. I took a practice LSAT just after glancing over format and i got 173 which is pretty darn good. Im considering doing a masters first because i believe i still have a lot more to learn and i can make a 180 if i perfect my skills.
During high school one of my teachers used to always through logic puzzles and questions at us for fun, never really understood why till i got to see the LSAT. During my freshman year in college i took senior level courses that emphaized anaylzing articles closely. I believe your whole college life is a preparation for the LSAT its just how well you choose to apply yourself. I took a practice LSAT just after glancing over format and i got 173 which is pretty darn good. Im considering doing a masters first because i believe i still have a lot more to learn and i can make a 180 if i perfect my skills.
Mahan Atma
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J.T. said:
You can get a hell of a lot smarter between 20 and 30. And between 30 and 40, and so on. You can know more AND get smarter.
Unless you are physically retarded, there's absolutely no reason why you would "stop getting smarter" at age 20. The brain is like a muscle. Exercise it, and it will grow stronger.
Trust me on this. I'm in my mid-thirties, and I am a great deal smarter than when I was 20. And it isn't simply knowing more; I have analytical skills I didn't have then. I can also concentrate harder and longer. Grad school and law school at a world-class university will do that for you.
There is a difference between having learned more and being smarter.
The test does not test how much you know, rather it tests how you think.
Last time I was in school, Thinking 101 had not been created.
And, last time I checked, all these years on the planet have only made me less smart, but hey, thats just me.
The test does not test how much you know, rather it tests how you think.
Last time I was in school, Thinking 101 had not been created.
And, last time I checked, all these years on the planet have only made me less smart, but hey, thats just me.
magicalmythman
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its the brainwashing media...lol
Mahan Atma
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carmello said:
Where are you people going to school, anyway?
I took a great many courses in school which taught me thinking skills. In fact, that's primarily what law school is all about. As far as substantive knowledge goes, there's only a small amount you can learn in three years. Any experienced lawyer or judge will tell you that law school only scratches the surface of any given area of law.
What law school teaches you -- and you'll hear this repeatedly if you are paying attention -- is how to think like a lawyer. You can argue about how successful any given teacher or school is with respect to this goal, but this is the objective.
Look -- Even if all you get out of grad school is the ability to concentrate longer and harder, this will help you a great deal. The LSAT lasts hours, and requires a great deal of intellectual stamina to do well. Having prepared for far more difficult exams -- like my masters' exam in statistics (a six-hour, closed-book exam packed with high-level mathematics and probability theory), or my PhD orals (a high-pressure, 3-hour grilling at the blackboard) definitely gave me a big edge on the LSAT.
Even that extra degree of emotional maturity goes a long way. Having been through many high-pressure exams let me put the whole thing in perspective, eliminating any chance that I would "freeze up".
Is there ANY reason not to wait? Does anybody seriously contend that you are going to get dumber by going to grad school? Come on...
Dr. J
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Mahan,
For once I completely and 100% agree with everything you have said
You mean, KNOW, right? And yes, they do teach thinking 101, but more in the form of logic and reasoning classes. They teach you how to refute arguments point by point, the validity of statements, and essentially how TO THINK at a higher level. So clearly, if you can expose yourself to more of these courses, coupled with additional skills you'll pick up in school, it makes MUCH more sense to wait to take the LSAT. If you seriously want to take it, go in and do a practice exam. At least that way you'll know where you are sitting, right now, without having to hurt your record. Upset with a 155? Don't worry, you'll still have more time to improve your score. And, while some may argue you can get only 8 more points, for example, I know a 163 is a hell of a lot better than a 155. You could go from little financial aid to a full-ride scholarship.
For once I completely and 100% agree with everything you have said
You mean, KNOW, right? And yes, they do teach thinking 101, but more in the form of logic and reasoning classes. They teach you how to refute arguments point by point, the validity of statements, and essentially how TO THINK at a higher level. So clearly, if you can expose yourself to more of these courses, coupled with additional skills you'll pick up in school, it makes MUCH more sense to wait to take the LSAT. If you seriously want to take it, go in and do a practice exam. At least that way you'll know where you are sitting, right now, without having to hurt your record. Upset with a 155? Don't worry, you'll still have more time to improve your score. And, while some may argue you can get only 8 more points, for example, I know a 163 is a hell of a lot better than a 155. You could go from little financial aid to a full-ride scholarship.
Mahan Atma
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^^^^ Smart man.
Dr. J is absolutely right. What schools really care about is the quantile you're in, not so much your raw score. If you're in the meaty part of the curve (near the average), a small increase in your raw score can substantially raise your quantile ranking.
Dr. J is absolutely right. What schools really care about is the quantile you're in, not so much your raw score. If you're in the meaty part of the curve (near the average), a small increase in your raw score can substantially raise your quantile ranking.