Mental Health Lithium Questions

RhythmSpring

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I am considering taking lithium orotate (5mg) for bipolar-like symptoms (never been diagnosed), depression, anxiety, and possibly fatigue and extreme salt cravings (I hear the salt thing could go either way).

I was wondering if anyone had any experience with the *orotate* form of Li.

How has it impacted your taste for salt?
Your mood? sleep? appetite? sex drive?
Any other side effects?
How has it impacted your experience of cannabis?
Your experience of psychedelics?

Thanks, RS
 
Would a visit to a doctor not be safer for you than self medicating with Lithium ?

Your symptoms (when combined with cannabis / psychedelic use) could indicate a variety of things that could be wrong. Addisons / Adrenal problems etc (thats just going off a symptoms checker online).
 
Lithium is a drug that must be used under a strict doctors supervision as it has a wide array of potentially harmful side-effects.

Homeless -> Mental Health
 
Do not take Lithium except under the close supervision of a doctor. Lithium can reach toxic levels in your blood which can cause everything from seizures to severe kidney damage. You have to have regular blood tests done especially for the first few months or after a dose change to make sure that your Lithium levels are in the right range.

I have never been on Lithium because getting that many blood tests would be a real pain in the ass for me but i would try it to see if it would work well for my bipolar if i could. If it works for people it generally works pretty good.
 
Did you guys even look up the difference between orotate and carbonate? The form of lithium we are all familiar with is lithium carbonate, which is indeed toxic and given at high doses.

Lithium orotate is given at doses as small as 5mg/day, and has virtually non-existent side-effects profile. I suggest you research these different forms before giving me knee-jerk reactions ("go see a doctor, end of story"). I wonder if anyone can actually answer any of my questions.
 
I wasn't able to find any studies on the safety and effeciacy of lithium orotate vs carbonate. Would you mind linking us to some studies?

Why would one have a more tolerable side-effect profile than the other?
 
Lithium Orotate is available at most places like GNC and The Vitamin Shoppe - I saw it there just the other day, but have no experience with it. This is not to provide a source for it, but rather to differentiate it from the prescription lithium salt.

However, I have been on prescription Lithium. I was on it for a while. I won't dwell on it, since that is not the topic of discussion here, but I feel compelled to reiterate what plenty of others have said - namely, that you ought never self-medicate without doing the proper research along with the indispensable route of consulting with a physician first. Not one person here on Bluelight is qualified to dispense advice that could alter your brain chemistry and re-route the severity of your psychiatric symptoms. Please be aware of this, as it is very important to understand that, while Bluelight is an incredible hub for discussion, it can never substitute for an in-person evaluation.

Additionally, I would be wary of taking lithium orotate without the supervision of a doctor. I am unfamiliar with its pharmacokinetics and side-effect profile, but when I was taking lithium bicarbonate (I believe thats the prescription salt), I had to have routine blood checks and such to evaluate the levels of the drug in my blood. Too much could have adversely altered my health, and the same may be true for lithium orotate.

Use caution and seek professional advice when attempting to pinpoint treatments for psychiatric disorders.
 
Did you guys even look up the difference between orotate and carbonate? The form of lithium we are all familiar with is lithium carbonate, which is indeed toxic and given at high doses.

Lithium orotate is given at doses as small as 5mg/day, and has virtually non-existent side-effects profile. I suggest you research these different forms before giving me knee-jerk reactions ("go see a doctor, end of story"). I wonder if anyone can actually answer any of my questions.

They are just different salts of Lithium. Lithium citrate is also a prescription drug like the carbonate and i think but don't quote me on this that you need less Lithium Citrate then the Carbonate.

I couldn't find any real studies on the safety or Lithium orotate so i am going to say that if you think you need Lithium go see a doctor. If it turns out that you have bipolar disorder Lithium may not even be the best drug for you not to mention the many drug interactions Lithium has.
 
Lithium has allot of side effects and is a pain in the ass as its effectiveness is dependent on levels in the blood. This necessitates monthly blood draws and other things. many people who take lithium can develop a tremor and for some it can become permanent. It has also been liked to possibly causing type one diabetes in some people. It causes flushed and burning skin in many people. I would seriously consider trying lamictal for these symptoms. I have used both drugs before as well as ssri's and benzos. By far the lamictal had the least side effects. There is a rash that can be deadly if someone takes it and doesn't stop if the rash appears. From my personal experience and what I have read I would only take lithium if I had already given lamictal a good chance and it didn't work or if I was unfortunate enough to develop the rash. IMO I dont think the use of lithium will be around that much longer.. it is pretty much betting phased out in the US as far as I know.

I didn't get the impression that you were going to just start taking the lithium on your own but since other posters have warned against this I will throw in with that.. everyone needs a different specific dose and the only way to determine and maintain the correct dose is through blood analysis. If you are too low it doesn't work and If you go to high you die. Not being dramatic just letting you know.. and the difference between this is really small. Oh and if you and your doctor choose litium you will have to be really scheduled with your dose as it needs to be taken at the same times every day for it to work and not be dangerous.

Lamictal

As far as the craving things.. to me this indicates that you have a dopamine imbalance and I would try and pursue natural ways pf increasing your dopamine.. meditation, positive thinking, sex, exercise, giving yourself credit for small accomplishments, great music..

Hope this helps and good luck.
 
You're right to warn of the (many) undesirable side-effects of lithium, but I couldn't help but remark upon a couple of things.

Apologies for bumping an old thread, and I realise the OP's question has been answered already, but I thought it might help people who view this thread in future.

many people who take lithium can develop a tremor and for some it can become permanent. It has also been liked to possibly causing type one diabetes in some people.

I was under the impression it could cause diabetes insipidus, and not type one diabetes? There's obviously quite a difference there.

As for the permanent hand tremor, I take it you're referring to the possiblility of permanent damage to the cerebellum as a result of lithium toxicity? That's the only way I'm aware of lithium use ever resulting in a permanent tremor. There is a fine tremor associated with high lithium levels, yes, but this subsides upon withdrawal of the drug.

IMO I dont think the use of lithium will be around that much longer.. it is pretty much betting phased out in the US as far as I know.

It's still the gold standard in many other countries, and it would still be my first choice treatment. I wouldn't like to go near something like Lamictal unless I was forced to stop the lithium.

Sorry, just had to jump in there. I'm done now. :)
 
I'd say give it a shot. 5mg lithium orotate contain roughly .03mmol lithium. A common therapeutic dosage of lithium carbonate is 900mg/d, containing 24.4mmol lithium.

So in conclusion, you should be perfectly safe taking an 800th of a therapeutical lithium dose per day. Will it have any effects? I honestly can't tell you. It has been found that there is a higher incidence oif suicides in areas with lower lithium levels in drinking water (don't quote me on this, I might be misrepresenting the facts here). I have just got started on lithium myself (24.4mmol/d) and the effects are extremely subtle, unlike those of neuroleptics or ssri. Don't expect too much.

I think it's a little hypocritical that people start ranting about how it'd be important to see a doctor before taking miniscule amounts of a naturally occuring alkali metal, while abuse of hard drugs is pretty fucking common on these forums. He was not asking for self medicating with what is considered a "therapeutical dose" of lithium in the medical world, but merely asking about our experiences with lithium as an otc supplement. We should also keep in mind that not everyone has the chance to "just go see a doctor".

I was under the impression it could cause diabetes insipidus, and not type one diabetes? There's obviously quite a difference there.
Yes, diabetes insipidus has nothing to do whatsoever with diabetes mellitus type I or II, except for both causing thirst and frequent urinating, which is why they share the same name. Also, it was my understanding that the nephrogenic diabetes insipidus caused by lithium is transient and only occurs when lithium levels are either too high or have just been raised.

As Sammy has stated, the tremor should also only be occuring at lithium levels which are considered toxic. Some people are more sensitive and experience it on a therapeutic dose, but it's nothing that you should expect to happen.

The biggest danger of lithium is surely the damage it can do to the kidneys, especially if a person lacks discipline to consume sufficient amounts of water every day. It can also damage the thyroid gland which can happen very quickly for some individuals (matter of weeks) or not at all for others. Fortunately, we do not need our thyroid since supplementing thyroid hormones does not mean a lower life expectancy or lower quality of life (except for having to take more pills...). Should a patient's kidneys take damage, that patient will be switched from lithium to another medication.

I live in Germany and lithium is still the first line treatment for bipolar disorder over here. I am pretty sure it is that way in every part of the world right now. Needless to say, the pharmaceutical industry is pretty keen on pushing more expensive drugs for off label use, like lamictal and valproate. It is true, some people seem to tolerate lamotrigine or valproate better (the latter mostly for people far on the manic side of the spectrum), but neither one has been proven to have an efficacy as high as lithium, nor are they particularly safe for long term usw. Valproic acid has been used for a long time now (it's side effects profile isn't really that attractive either though), but lamotrigine has been around for less than 20 years now, so only god knows the long term damage it can do (wait, not even god does).
 
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