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Life exists so that the universe can observe itself

hiphophippy said:
Because of millions of cosmic events that created a very specific and rare set of circumstances where it could.
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You are correct. I don't think we disagree on anything.
Life can exist because the circumstances are there. Life itself is a thing, where inanimate objects become animated, so that the universe can observe itself.

I'm pretty sure we don't disagree?
 
I'm somewhat of what we'll call a neo-determinist. My comment was supposed to be kind of neutral yes. I don't disagree with you par se. If you take my context as disagreeing it is, if not then it is supporting as a wonderful event of chance. Becasue it is kind of both haha.


Consider this, if we can make equations that quantify and explain/give evidence for chaos theory then it isn't very chaotic now is it?
 
hiphophippy said:
Consider this, if we can make equations that quantify and explain/give evidence for chaos theory then it isn't very chaotic now is it?
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that's because the mathematical definition of 'chaos' and the common usage of the word are different. it's a common mistake.

alasdair
 
Yeah there is no randomness if everything can be determined from it's previous states. There's just a lot of variables humans can't calculate.

and to ninja; how else would the universe observe itself, if everything that is not alive is inanimate and therefore does not observe anything?
 
alasdairm said:
that's because the mathematical definition of 'chaos' and the common usage of the word are different. it's a common mistake.

alasdair
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Yes, but the question still applies, Oh hey look at this mathematical irregularity, (that can be explained this way mathematically) my goodness D: CHAOOOOSSSS AAAAAAAAAHhhhhhhhhhhhhh
 
^ if you feel that there's a paradox there, you do not understand the basic idea of chaos theory.

alasdair
 
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A Blind Guy said:
and to ninja; how else would the universe observe itself, if everything that is not alive is inanimate and therefore does not observe anything?
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do you think computer could become conscious ? do you think they would inevitably need to become alive to reach consciousness ?

life implies death, what a living being can observe is gonna contain that bias, what a universe is gonna see through life is only one aspect of what it (the universe) can be
if you take the definition of inanimate as "lacking the quality or ability of motion" then isnt the universe in constant motion, does it needs to die to be validate as capable of recording data

what about a mirror, i can observe myself in a mirror, if i was the universe would i need the mirror to be alive to make it possible for me to observe myself ?
 
ninjadanslarbretabar said:
do you think computer could become conscious ? do you think they would inevitably need to become alive to reach consciousness ?

life implies death, what a living being can observe is gonna contain that bias, what a universe is gonna see through life is only one aspect of what it (the universe) can be
if you take the definition of inanimate as "lacking the quality or ability of motion" then isnt the universe in constant motion, does it needs to die to be validate as capable of recording data

what about a mirror, i can observe myself in a mirror, if i was the universe would i need the mirror to be alive to make it possible for me to observe myself ?
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artificial intelligence is a possibility, and an artificially intelligent machine would, for all intents and purposes, be considered "alive". Although it clearly is not alive, it has a sense of self. It could observe the universe, then, too. But artificially intelligent machines are the products of living organisms. You can't skip that step.

what did you mean by your statement "only one aspect of what the universe can be"? Are you speaking of the realm of unknowns that exists beyond this three dimensional existence of ours?

And yes the universe is in constant motion, but it isn't animate, so it does not observe. Technically a crater is recorded data, so even inanimate objects can record data and preserve that data, but only an animate, intelligent thing can actually "observe", you know what I mean?

And if you were the universe, you would need to be alive in order for you to observe yourself in a mirror. The mirror doesn't make you alive.
 
nah i was talking about the dimension of aliveness

as for the mirror how would you know you are alive if you cant self reflect ?
isnt that needed for observation ?
 
A Blind Guy said:
"Life exists so that the universe can observe itself"
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the idea seem to imply that there was or is a purpose to the universe
im not really into intelligent design, i dont believe that things have a purpose outside of what we make of it
and if you believe that the universe did not contain life inside the big bang, and that it possibly took billions of year before we got life on some planet then why did it took so long ?
why not create life from the start so that it could observe itself ?
because it could have being phrased like this : life exist which makes it possible for the universe to observe itself
but the "so that" implies that there is meaning, that there was intent from the begining, which would side with the idea of a god creator

im not a fan of giving meaning to life (outside of our own), and in this case i feel it implies that the universe gave meaning to life
 
ninjadanslarbretabar said:
the idea seem to imply that there was or is a purpose to the universe
im not really into intelligent design, i dont believe that things have a purpose outside of what we make of it
and if you believe that the universe did not contain life inside the big bang, and that it possibly took billions of year before we got life on some planet then why did it took so long ?
why not create life from the start so that it could observe itself ?
because it could have being phrased like this : life exist which makes it possible for the universe to observe itself
but the "so that" implies that there is meaning, that there was intent from the begining, which would side with the idea of a god creator

im not a fan of giving meaning to life (outside of our own), and in this case i feel it implies that the universe gave meaning to life
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The universe may be a part to a larger whole, and given it's temporary state, that seems like a possibility. Certainly we can't live in the only universe. So there could be a purpose to the universe as a part of... something else. It definitely isn't the construct of some deity, though.

As for "why did life take so long"... well it was probably waiting for the universe to cool down so that life could actually exist in it.
Yes, it could be phrased "life exists which allows the universe to observe itself".
I understand that there really isn't a point, as far as we can tell, for the existence of our universe. It starts, it ends, we're in it. But if the universe started and ended with no life in it? That would be the ultimate pointlessness. Nothing was observed. It might as well not have even happened.

I think the quote is meant to mean that life is even a thing that happens, so that the universe can observe itself. Like, amino acids and chemicals can come together and form something that can take action and observe so that the universe can observe itself. Does that make more sense? The universe could have been completely devoid of organic elements, or there could be no such thing as organic elements; there could be no fuel for life. But there is, and it might be so that the universe can self observe.

also, in your first post, what exactly are the "dimensions of aliveness"?
as for the mirror, you said you need to be able to self reflect in order to understand that you are alive... that might not necessarily be true. Animals cannot understand that their reflection in the mirror is themselves, and cannot self reflect, but they fear death. They don't know that they are going to die (can't plan for it, don't think that far into the future) but know when they are dying and fear it. Isn't that knowledge of life?

And any living thing can observe. cells observe, because they interpret their environment into information that makes sense to them. They don't observe as well as we do, but that's only because our perceptions are more advanced than theirs.
 
I fail to see any depth or explanatory power in that quote. Why ought the universe observe itself? Please give your threads a descriptive title in the future. Better yet, abstain from posting threads with the format ""QUOTE" -Discuss."
 
... thought you would appreciate this, OP.

Wake up to find out that you are the eyes of the world,
The heart has it's beaches, it's homeland and thoughts of it's own.
Wake now, discover that you are the song that the morning brings,
But the heart has it's seasons, it's evenings and songs of it's own.

There comes a redeemer, and he slowly too fades away,
And there follows his wagon behind him that's loaded with clay.
And the seeds that were silent all burst into bloom, and decay,
And night comes so quiet, it's close on the heels of the day.
- Robert Hunter
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^^SheHerHeHimWhoIsAll: every-where as time and light; Thee Aeon Divine Mother Gleaming Sophia - the Observing Seed Sower.
 
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