Mental Health Lack of legal pain relief in current pain management culture.

[RoaminW]

This a question I had formulated a few months back during one of my extremely painful episodes from lumbar problem. On another thread I have been conversing in, someone brought up the suicidal possibility because of not being able to get relief through legal channels. It’s a bit tongue-in-cheek, but I’m actually dead serious as far as the question goes for what it would be considered.

If someone were to kill themselves because the pain is intractable, and they can’t get a doctor to prescribe anything stronger than, say, Tylenol IV’s, would that be considered an opioid/opiate related suicide, or would it be a depression related suicide?

Thoughts?

 

[Pissed_and_messed]

I have been angry how shitty pain management we have ten years longer than I have had pains really.

It is sometimes like "ok we dont care how shitty you feel as long as you are theoretically ok"

No weed really, possibly not gabapentinoids either and oh yeah there's no hydro anything, it is codeine-tramal-bup-oxy-maybe morphine but probably only if you're dieing. I am no sure how it is nowadays but I have understood that conditions requiring chronic use of hardest drugs commonly are treated or not-so-treated in state pain management clinic and if they are not compliant it gets difficult.

Then there are some meds like etoricoxib and such. At least they seem to do something and are not addictive. Euphoria is side-effect you know.

Luck and status helps.

 

[Just a little pinprick]

This a question I had formulated a few months back during one of my extremely painful episodes from lumbar problem. On another thread I have been conversing in, someone brought up the suicidal possibility because of not being able to get relief through legal channels. It’s a bit tongue-in-cheek, but I’m actually dead serious as far as the question goes for what it would be considered.

If someone were to kill themselves because the pain is intractable, and they can’t get a doctor to prescribe anything stronger than, say, Tylenol IV’s, would that be considered an opioid/opiate related suicide, or would it be a depression related suicide?

Thoughts?

Nobody will know the reason/nor care about the reason the bottom line is you committed suicide and foul play wasn’t involved so if your looking for someone else to blame it on i dont think itll ever come back to haunt them (legally) ,your suicide will be for nothing . I think if your to that point where your contiplating suicide you should seek out a shrink and be honest about everything and it might help/might not but at least your on record officially, go spend three days in a phych ward and let them evaluate you and see what they say , it cant hurt and may even resolve the situation.
If you go to a doctor and ask for a specific drug especially painkillers your going to walk out with shit…

Im assuming you already had xrays then cat scans then mri’s,all of those are needed before someones going to give you anything strong. Did they see anything which could be the source of your pain ?
The first pain doc i went too was for a evaluation and he had a good way to see if i was for real or was faking it he offered to give me a needle in my spine right there in the office so i took off my shirt and he harpooned me with a fat spike with i dont know what (which didnt do anything either), i guess most fakers would decline the offer with a BS excuse or something.i ended up getting 6sessions of facet innjection and burning the nerves to finish the area off ,it did help after the swelling went away about a month later.. i never asked him for pain meds, i went to another pain management clinic about 18 months later when the injections wore off and i was awarded my ssdi and that doctor gave me a script for oxys the same day because everytimg i tried first.
Your pain comes and goes so hes not trying to get you hooked on opiates without exhausting other options first.

 

[ChemicallyEnhanced]

This a question I had formulated a few months back during one of my extremely painful episodes from lumbar problem. On another thread I have been conversing in, someone brought up the suicidal possibility because of not being able to get relief through legal channels. It’s a bit tongue-in-cheek, but I’m actually dead serious as far as the question goes for what it would be considered.

If someone were to kill themselves because the pain is intractable, and they can’t get a doctor to prescribe anything stronger than, say, Tylenol IV’s, would that be considered an opioid/opiate related suicide, or would it be a depression related suicide?

Thoughts?

Dunno, but I've actually considered suicide before due to being refused anything even close to adequate pain relief.

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

Both. Reason for suicide, depression ; means of carrying out suicide, opiates.

 

[RoaminW]

Nobody will know the reason/nor care about the reason the bottom line is you committed suicide and foul play wasn’t involved so if your looking for someone else to blame it on i dont think itll ever come back to haunt them (legally) ,your suicide will be for nothing . I think if your to that point where your contiplating suicide you should seek out a shrink and be honest about everything and it might help/might not but at least your on record officially, go spend three days in a phych ward and let them evaluate you and see what they say , it cant hurt and may even resolve the situation.
If you go to a doctor and ask for a specific drug especially painkillers your going to walk out with shit…

Im assuming you already had xrays then cat scans then mri’s,all of those are needed before someones going to give you anything strong. Did they see anything which could be the source of your pain ?
The first pain doc i went too was for a evaluation and he had a good way to see if i was for real or was faking it he offered to give me a needle in my spine right there in the office so i took off my shirt and he harpooned me with a fat spike with i dont know what (which didnt do anything either), i guess most fakers would decline the offer with a BS excuse or something.i ended up getting 6sessions of facet innjection and burning the nerves to finish the area off ,it did help after the swelling went away about a month later.. i never asked him for pain meds, i went to another pain management clinic about 18 months later when the injections wore off and i was awarded my ssdi and that doctor gave me a script for oxys the same day because everytimg i tried first.
Your pain comes and goes so hes not trying to get you hooked on opiates without exhausting other options first.

I’m not suicidal. It’s a question I pondered on during a painful episode. But thanks nonetheless.

 

[RoaminW]

Both. Reason for suicide, depression ; means of carrying out suicide, opiates.

Um…in this theoretical question, a lack of opiates would be why the person committed suicide. If they had opiates, they wouldn’t want to kill themselves. Perhaps I should have made myself more clear.

 

[RoaminW]

Nobody will know the reason/nor care about the reason the bottom line is you committed suicide and foul play wasn’t involved so if your looking for someone else to blame it on i dont think itll ever come back to haunt them (legally) ,your suicide will be for nothing . I think if your to that point where your contiplating suicide you should seek out a shrink and be honest about everything and it might help/might not but at least your on record officially, go spend three days in a phych ward and let them evaluate you and see what they say , it cant hurt and may even resolve the situation.
If you go to a doctor and ask for a specific drug especially painkillers your going to walk out with shit…

Im assuming you already had xrays then cat scans then mri’s,all of those are needed before someones going to give you anything strong. Did they see anything which could be the source of your pain ?
The first pain doc i went too was for a evaluation and he had a good way to see if i was for real or was faking it he offered to give me a needle in my spine right there in the office so i took off my shirt and he harpooned me with a fat spike with i dont know what (which didnt do anything either), i guess most fakers would decline the offer with a BS excuse or something.i ended up getting 6sessions of facet innjection and burning the nerves to finish the area off ,it did help after the swelling went away about a month later.. i never asked him for pain meds, i went to another pain management clinic about 18 months later when the injections wore off and i was awarded my ssdi and that doctor gave me a script for oxys the same day because everytimg i tried first.
Your pain comes and goes so hes not trying to get you hooked on opiates without exhausting other options first.

Degeneration since 97. A dozen MRI’s. Two lumbar surgeries. One, a microdiscectomy, the second, ALIF interbody fusion.

 

[TheUltimateFixx]

Um…in this theoretical question, a lack of opiates would be why the person committed suicide. If they had opiates, they wouldn’t want to kill themselves. Perhaps I should have made myself more clear.

I was under the impression that in this hypothetical scenario, the individual is worried that his demise will be chalked up to a 'drug habit'.

 

[Nurse Ratched]

If people don't leave a note detailing WHY they ended their life then the message will never get out. If someone was in intractable pain and wasn't getting relief so they ended their life they should make a very big visible note and explain their predicament. Otherwise their death will be of no importance other than to their loved ones.

If people take an OD of a substance and DON"T leave a note.......their Death certificate will simply say OD and everyone will assume they were a drug addict and succumbed to their habit. Just another statistic. Who cares, right?

Since suicide usually leaves people wondering WHY the person did what they did a note is always the way to go. At least the family members won't go to THEIR grave wondering why their loved one did what they did. They will always mourn your death but at least they will understand it.

 

[RoaminW]

I was under the impression that in this hypothetical scenario, the individual is worried that his demise will be chalked up to a 'drug habit'.

No, it’s like putting yourself out of misery because the medical community has decided to abandon patients’ needs. See?

 

[paranoid android]

Well youl be dead so it really won't matter to you. I feel your pain though getting doctors to write out opiates is not fucking easy no matter what your condition

 

[PtahTek]

Tylenol IV’s, would that be considered an opioid/opiate related suicide, or would it be a depression related suicide

No.
Dont even try is please.
That apap will make ya wanna die but it doesn't come... misery for days.
Make wait til tomorrow and do the research... might turn ya into a veggie. worth it? not in my opinion.
ya still around?

 

[arrowpenny]

This a question I had formulated a few months back during one of my extremely painful episodes from lumbar problem. On another thread I have been conversing in, someone brought up the suicidal possibility because of not being able to get relief through legal channels. It’s a bit tongue-in-cheek, but I’m actually dead serious as far as the question goes for what it would be considered.

If someone were to kill themselves because the pain is intractable, and they can’t get a doctor to prescribe anything stronger than, say, Tylenol IV’s, would that be considered an opioid/opiate related suicide, or would it be a depression related suicide?

Thoughts?

I have herniated discs in my neck. I can't get doctors to prescribe me anything except gabapentin and some other non narcotic stuff that does nothing. I am in constant pain daily. I am not sure how long I can deal with this. So far its been 4 years.

 

[Fertile]

I concluded that strong analgesics are never given for pain. They MIGHT be given if the pain impacts your health in other ways. In my case without analgesics, I cannot sleep and have seizures. So the doctor is not giving me the analgesics for the pain but because a related condition would end my life and they would be blamed.

My advocate is the one who talks to the doctor and she sent the doctor a registered letter pointing out that pain had led to seizures had led to me being in hospital for a week. The doctor confirmed they had the letter via E-mail, so their is proof.

But EVERY month they screw up the prescription so weigh up if the stress and problems associated with getting the analgesics is worth it. I've kept the dose down even when offered more because who knows when I will get cut off?

 

[paranoid android]

Can you get a new doctor? This one sounds like they are fucking you around really.

 

[Fertile]

Ah - I forgot to mention that I'm 52, look 65 and have a leg held together with (now broken) pins and (now displaced) ceramic disks. I think they assume I will be dead before the therapeutic window becomes a problem.

 

[RedRum OG]

Ah - I forgot to mention that I'm 52, look 65 and have a leg held together with (now broken) pins and (now displaced) ceramic disks. I think they assume I will be dead before the therapeutic window becomes a problem.

Brutal. Curious- what do you take for pain?

 

[Jerry Atrick]

Hey @Dilapidated, I'm really sorry you are going through this. You are correct that the last half of your post is triggering. No you will not be infracted or banned but the jury is still out on whether we will edit out the triggering content.

Just wanted to state that it would be against Posting Rules of The Dark Side for anyone to recommend methods for ending one's life.

Now that the business is out of the way, I totally understand why you feel the way you do. My dad attempted suicide after a botched spinal fusion surgery. Twenty years later his brother, my uncle, accidentally ODd on fentanyl patches he was applying improperly after a car wreck that shattered his pelvis into like 40 pieces. When times get desperate sometimes people do desperate things. My dad lived and is still alive, my uncle not so much.

Please try to get clean and give the surgery a chance before taking any final steps. I know kicking benzos is easier said than done but I think the effort would be worth it if it meant getting the pain at least down to a manageable level. Peace and love

 

[hjalmar]

This a question I had formulated a few months back during one of my extremely painful episodes from lumbar problem. On another thread I have been conversing in, someone brought up the suicidal possibility because of not being able to get relief through legal channels. It’s a bit tongue-in-cheek, but I’m actually dead serious as far as the question goes for what it would be considered.

If someone were to kill themselves because the pain is intractable, and they can’t get a doctor to prescribe anything stronger than, say, Tylenol IV’s, would that be considered an opioid/opiate related suicide, or would it be a depression related suicide?

Thoughts?

In places like Iran opium is decriminalized and its use acceptable at least for old people and chronic pain patients. That's how they did it here in the old days too.