Kratom Kratom

[jerseyshark]

How many grams per day for a new user coming off two weeks of 6/50mg tramadol habit to have no wd?

 

[negrogesic]

300mg of tramadol a day for 2 weeks?

Maybe 3-4g of kratom every 6 hours. But you will be at significant risk of getting hooked on kratom.

If i were you, i'd get some kratom for maybe just 2 days of use, then switch to immodium (loperamide) at 40mg per day (20 pills) and decrease one pill every other day till zero. I might even do that instead of getting kratom involved at all.

A few days of benzos and that schedule of loperamide should do it. Try to exercise as much as possible to rebound as quickly as possible.

 

[someguyontheinternet]

I would agree to avoid kratom, loperamide isn't reinforcing like kratom is afaik and loperamide always worked for physical withdrawal symptoms for me

 

[Didgital]

As someone who works with kratom, I have to agree with both of the above responses. While I've seen several people completely stop using traditional opioids, prolly 2/3 of them basically migrate the addiction to kratom, and it's almost as ugly if less dangerous. I'd still rather my friends use a plant than fentanyl but addiction is addiction.

I've never been addicted to opioids so I don't have the best advice, just sharing my observations.

As far as other addictions, I've had plenty. It's either taper (which i think is recommended for opioids?) or just cold turkey and suffer for a bit.

 

[LargeAppetite]

Wait a second, you should not really experience any serious withdrawals in the first place from using tramadol for 2 weeks. Everyone seemed to gloss over that fact. Don't pick up a secondary opiate habit in fear of the withdrawals from a 2 week tramadol habit. The length of use and the fact it is tramadol should make the withdrawals like ginger beer or non existent.
Godspeed.

 

[negrogesic]

I think 2 weeks of an opioid is enough to get a taste of withdrawal. If they are asking the question, they probably will experience some withdrawal.

But i was off the mark when I began to recommend kratom. Definitely avoid kratom; the loperamide taper will help and also put the OP's mind at ease just by the act of taking something.

 

[LargeAppetite]

I think 2 weeks of an opioid is enough to get a taste of withdrawal. If they are asking the question, they probably will experience some withdrawal.

But i was off the mark when I began to recommend kratom. Definitely avoid kratom; the loperamide taper will help and also put the OP's mind at ease just by the act of taking something.

I do not understand this kind of reasoning. "If they are asking the question, they probably will experience some withdrawals" is ridiculous and simply not how it works. Having the curiosity to ask a question does not guarantee that it will happen. That is certainly not how withdrawals work. What are you talking about? As a Moderator of this website, nonetheless. If @jerseyshark is wanting to get off their 2 week Tramadol habit then recommending any other benzo or opiate is not the right idea and I am glad to see the general consensus has steered away from that, but damn. A taper may be benificial but it is a 2 week tramadol binge, not a habit. @jerseyshark You may be overestimating how bad it's going to be. Try and get some good rest, water, good food, and give it a shot. If you start experiencing wd then have the loperamide on hand. You are going to be ok.

 

[negrogesic]

I do not understand this kind of reasoning. "If they are asking the question, they probably will experience some withdrawals" is ridiculous and simply not how it works. Having the curiosity to ask a question does not guarantee that it will happen. That is certainly not how withdrawals work. What are you talking about? As a Moderator of this website, nonetheless. If @jerseyshark is wanting to get off their 2 week Tramadol habit then recommending any other benzo or opiate is not the right idea and I am glad to see the general consensus has steered away from that, but damn. A taper may be benificial but it is a 2 week tramadol binge, not a habit.

Perception of withdrawal syndrome symptoms are tied to the knowledge of its existence, particularly at the early stages. Some old lady who has no clue tramadol even has a withdrawal syndrome will feel much less withdrawal symptoms upon discontinuation after 2 weeks than someone who, anxious enough about the phenomenon to post a question about it on an online forum (and is sure that they'll need a replacement) will feel because unlike the clueless old lady, they are not only aware that a withdrawal syndrome can exist, they are expecting it, nervously so, noting every change, whereas the little old lady might a little feel colder than normal, have a bit of a runny nose and some lethargy, and think nothing of it nor trace it back to the discontinuation of the tramadol.

Do you understand the reasoning now? Because the phenomenon is well established in studies of human behavior. Expectation and awareness that something will happen and will feel bad will increase the likelihood and severity of that event.

"If they are asking the question, they probably will experience some withdrawals" is ridiculous and simply not how it works.

You still think that is ridiculous? Because it is how it works; it's human nature. Why do you think methadone clinics sometimes offer "blind dosing" dose tapering for some individuals? It's because the knowledge that ones dose has been reduced can create an expectation of withdrawal in said patient, thus exacerbating the symptomology.

That is certainly not how withdrawals work. What are you talking about? As a Moderator of this website, nonetheless

Again, it is how it works, particularly in circumstances like this. Use some critical thinking before this haughty taughty business, "As a Moderator of this website, nonetheless").

A loperamide taper will do no harm (but going on kratom will, which is why i retracted the idea). This person is obviously anxious about something happening, and the loperamide might reduce some symptoms, and relieve their concerns about what may or may not manifest.

 

[LargeAppetite]

Perception of withdrawal syndrome symptoms are tied to the knowledge of its existence, particularly at the early stages. Some old lady who has no clue tramadol even has a withdrawal syndrome will feel much less withdrawal symptoms upon discontinuation after 2 weeks than someone who, anxious enough about the phenomenon to post a question about it on an online forum (and is sure that they'll need a replacement) will inevitability feel more withdrawal symptoms because they are expecting it, nervously so, noting every change, whereas the little old lady might feel colder than normal, have a bit of a runny nose and some lethargy, and think nothing of it nor tracing it back to the discontinuation of the tramadol.



Do you understand the reasoning now? Because the phenomenon is well established in studies of human behavior. Expectation and awareness that something will happen and will feel bad will increase the likelihood of that emerging. You still think that is ridiculous? Because its human nature.

A loperamide taper will do no harm (but going on kratom will, which is why i retracted the idea). This person is obviously anxious about something happening.

Again, what are you talking about? Perception of withdrawal symptoms are not at all tied to the knowledge of it's existence. You can have no perception of withdrawals ever being a possibility and still physically experience them. If you shoot heroin for a year you will dry heave when you stop. You will feel pain throughout your entire body. Whether you perceive or not it will be your reality. Your physical body does not require your perception of an idea. You are arguing with me and attempting reinforce your status that I have rightfully called you out on. Saying a lot of unnecessary words about how knowing something exists increases the possibility for someone to be anxious about it? Sure, but that is by no means the point. You have side stepped completely. That is not how withdrawals work. We are not talking about some old lady, not some anxiety over the possibility of Wd. Of course I understand that people are anxious about things. Hence why recommending a stronger opiate or benzo is the wrong path. Let's talk about reasoning for a second since you felt the need to bring it back up. You are saying that someone who has been on Tramadol for a year and is unaware of the possibility of Wd is going to have a easier time then this person being on it 2 weeks and having the awareness of Wd?

 

[MedicinalUser247]

I hate withdrawal. After my hand surgery in 2002 I was on Vicodan and Percocet for about a month. After that I went cold turkey and felt like shit for a few days. The cravings were pretty bad.

 

[negrogesic]

Again, what are you talking about? Perception of withdrawal symptoms are not at all tied to the knowledge of it's existence. You can have no perception of withdrawals ever being a possibility and still physically experience them. If you shoot heroin for a year you will dry heave when you stop. You will feel pain throughout your entire body. Whether you perceive or not it will be your reality. Your physical body does not require your perception of an idea. You are arguing with me and attempting reinforce your status that I have rightfully called you out on. Saying a lot of unnecessary words about how knowing something exists increases the possibility for someone to be anxious about it? Sure, but that is by no means the point. You have side stepped completely. That is not how withdrawals work. We are not talking about some old lady, not some anxiety over the possibility of Wd. Of course I understand that people are anxious about things. Hence why recommending a stronger opiate or benzo is the wrong path. Let's talk about reasoning for a second since you felt the need to bring it back up. You are saying that someone who has been on Tramadol for a year and is unaware of the possibility of Wd is going to have a easier time then this person being on it 2 weeks and having the awareness of Wd?

Read everything i said again, and the answers to all your questions are there. Not gonna type it out again.

And again, maybe your reading comprehension isn't so great, but i nixxed the kratom suggestion in the very same post i started to mention it
And a few times after that. A few doses of a benzo would be harmless in this case if they for whatever reason felt they needed it.

Just reread cause im not repeating. Any logical person would see it as reasonable.

 

[LargeAppetite]

Read everything i said again, and the answers to all your questions are there. Not gonna type it out again.

And again, maybe your reading comprehension isn't so great, but i nixxed the kratom suggestion in the very same post i started to mention it
And a few times after that. A few doses of a benzo would be harmless in this case if they for whatever reason felt they needed it.

Just reread cause im not repeating. Any logical person would see it as reasonable.

You could just answer the question. In the face of not having the answer or it being wrong you are going to continue to be smug and insult my intellect. You have a false perception that what you see as "logical" people, will read what you have said and see any reasoning whatsoever.

 

[MedicinalUser247]

He gets on everybodys case. Don't worry about it.

 

[jerseyshark]

I do not understand this kind of reasoning. "If they are asking the question, they probably will experience some withdrawals" is ridiculous and simply not how it works. Having the curiosity to ask a question does not guarantee that it will happen. That is certainly not how withdrawals work. What are you talking about? As a Moderator of this website, nonetheless. If @jerseyshark is wanting to get off their 2 week Tramadol habit then recommending any other benzo or opiate is not the right idea and I am glad to see the general consensus has steered away from that, but damn. A taper may be benificial but it is a 2 week tramadol binge, not a habit. @jerseyshark You may be overestimating how bad it's going to be. Try and get some good rest, water, good food, and give it a shot. If you start experiencing wd then have the loperamide on hand. You are going to be ok.

I understand the psychological issues you've outlined in quite detail. 2 weeks of binging on tramadol isn't my thing. I used it to edge my oxy I had been reduced due to my pharmacy I've been going to not have 15s but 10s, and a 60 pill reduction due to limits posed on them for moving to a new location by the DEA. I your reasoning and it's valid. Dig it. Thank you

 

[LargeAppetite]

I looked at your other post after my mind altering conversation with our dear moderator here and realized that there was some oxy habit mixed into the whole situation. That does change things slightly, I know firsthand. Dropping from 15's to 10's and reducing 60 pills is 300mg of your medication. I feel that is the more viable reason to need something that may help you withdrawal. I have been there. Tramadol for 2 weeks doesn't hold a candle to all the sudden having your script reduced by 300mg. I am sorry you are going through that."Edging" with the Tramadol was just to hold you over for 2 weeks. You may experience some Wd's but it will be from the, at bay, oxy habit and not the other. Thank you for the last part. One starts to get genuinely concerned about the status of the world when these, psuedo-intelectual, troglodytes spew nonsense all over a board that is here to help and guide people through taboo topics. This board and the freedom that it brings are truly sacred in my heart and have been for may years now. Offer some good and in reality solutions and information to promote harm reduction an destigmatize drug use or kick rocks.

I understand the psychological issues you've outlined in quite detail. 2 weeks of binging on tramadol isn't my thing. I used it to edge my oxy I had been reduced due to my pharmacy I've been going to not have 15s but 10s, and a 60 pill reduction due to limits posed on them for moving to a new location by the DEA. I your reasoning and it's valid. Dig it. Thank you