Opioids kratom extracts

[tunesey]

I live in the UK and have decided to experiment with Kratom first I tried powder now I have switched to extracts expecting them to be stronger and work better

I have tried 10x which is sticky and hard to manage and 20x which is easer to manage as is comes in a block. I was under the impression this product to be stronger but all to the contrary a couple of hours ago I made a tea with about 15 grams and the effect was just a little relaxation to be honest I am a bit fucked off as I purchased 50g that was not cheap. I have read about kratom WDs but how could you withdraw from this.

I am undecided If I want to try another vendor or knock the Kratom on the head completely. Do you actually get a good buzz from this product or is a little relaxation all I can expect kind regards Tunesey

 

[《Plasticity》]

To be honest, 10x, 15x, 20x etc extracts are for the most part shit and overpriced for the little if any benefit compared to plain leaf. If you've been having trouble getting off on kratom you should try a couple different vendors out to rule out quality issues. If you have and still can't get off but are still eager to catch a buzz UEI (ultra enhanced indonesian) extract is what you want. Even with an opiate tolerance, with the right dose you should be able to catch a quite satisfying buzz as long as your tolerance isn't absurd and your not on suboxone or methadone.

You may also wanna look into FST or full spectrum tincture. It's very similar to UEI but in all honesty I prefer the UEI. As for dependancy issues this goes doube for extract use! The good (and bad lol) is that these extra these are quite pricey so frequent use isn't very cost effective but there are those who still develop a nasty and very costly extract dependency. Save these for the occasional chill night and you should be good to go, though ultimately it's up to how able you are to keep opioid use sparingly that should determine your course of action.

 

[tunesey]

thanks for your feedback captain

 

[tunesey]

hey captain tried the UEI nice buzz little pricey but very nice thanks for the heads up

 

[Stotched]

UEI is just synthetic mitragynine sprayed over kratom, which is why it's so pricey. I've only gotten one natural extract that worked, which was a 15x red borneo from a well known vendor. Gold reserve never really worked on me, and UEI is far too similar to actual opiates for me, as my reason for using kratom is to not go back to heroin. The 15x red borneo extract is decent, although I have gotten minor withdrawals on it. Nothing serious, just after a week of use ended up with crazy restless legs, similar to coming off oxy.

 

[strigoi]

UEI is just synthetic mitragynine sprayed over kratom, which is why it's so pricey. .

A good post, but I want to point out that unless you have some piece of research or evidence I have not seen, nothing substantiates this claim. I keep a rather close eye on UEI/FST 'research' on here and several other boards, and so far no one has been able to say for sure what is in UEI/FST that makes is so different than every other type of kratom.

A form of synthetic mitragynine is a good (leading) theory at this point, but nothing has been proven (that I know of)

 

[《Plasticity》]

Well, we do know that FST contains no mitragynine or kratom alkaloids at all, just a corynantheidine based analog. Mitragynine and friends are all corynantheidine based for those who, like me, didn't know at first. This testing was done by Amanitadine, whom I'm sure your aquainted with strigoi, very smart fella. Sadly, he's no longer with us though.

I think it's more than reasonable to assume the same applies to UEI, I mean is there even any debate as to whether these two contain different substances? I think anyone who has taken both would agree that they contain the same substance... even bluelighters who follow the the subject. They feel exactly the same, and not very ''kratom-like" at all.

Your right though, nothing has been proven in the case of identifying this mystery alkaloid, however quite a bit of chatter regarding the substance has been spoken of. Lots of speculation leaning towards mitragynine pseudoindoxyl. From the sounds of it Amanitadine had some inside info on the subject... but I'm not sure as to whether he truely knew what the contents were.

There was also a thread on opiophile on oxindole products and a reputable vendor chimed in with his 2¢ on the subject, though according to I believe...Hammilton? (Who I'm sure has more info on this topic than I) said he was slightly off on the creator of these extracts, though the thread is very interesting nonetheless...

Mu, the vendor, also seems to have a hunch that it's M-PI. Some interesting, but mainly speculation related discussion can be found somewhere in the last kratom megathread as well, maybe about 3/4 in. This post isn't necessarily directed at you strigoi as I'm sure you already know all of this, just interesting info for those who don't. I can probably dig up more discussion on this, but it's early, I'm lazy, and this post is long enough for now.

http://forum.opiophile.org/showthread.php?46006-Rocket-Fuel-aka-Oxindole-bali

@Tunesey NP, just go easy on the stuff. I see it as no less habit forming than traditional opioids, perhaps even worse than some I would assume.

 

[Doldrugs]

I've had positive but not repeatable experiences with plain kratom. I've had the best results with the enhanced options like uei, ueb, gold reserve, and 50x (no it was not actually 50 times more powerful, but it was effective). I know the tolerance issues but since I use so infrequently I prefer the extracts. Never tried FST, though.

 

[al-laddin]

I live in the UK and have decided to experiment with Kratom first I tried powder now I have switched to extracts expecting them to be stronger and work better

I have tried 10x which is sticky and hard to manage and 20x which is easer to manage as is comes in a block. I was under the impression this product to be stronger but all to the contrary a couple of hours ago I made a tea with about 15 grams and the effect was just a little relaxation to be honest I am a bit fucked off as I purchased 50g that was not cheap. I have read about kratom WDs but how could you withdraw from this.

I am undecided If I want to try another vendor or knock the Kratom on the head completely. Do you actually get a good buzz from this product or is a little relaxation all I can expect kind regards Tunesey

Soething about these types of extracts are i dunno, subpar on their own, but trust me from a long time kratom user THEY DO COME IN HANDY. It seems the full buzz from kratom comes from the numerous alkaloids interacting with one another in the leaf and basic extract do little on their own because of this. Chances are on one or just a few alkalioids are extracted through any single process. It would require different typed of extractions to remove all of them form the leaf. Even then, what seems to be the reason for extracts is an attemt to remove the seiling effect from kratom. Im 99% sure you will find a use for these extracts but you probably wont go through it all very quick. Try throwing a gram or two on TOP of some plain leaf. It helps lift the buzz even more. Most extratcs are fucking useles unless used in this way. YOu need the full spectrum of alkaloids to get that opiod like buzz from kratom. However there are a few ingenoius extracts out there that are natural and then a few as said above seem like some chemical tinkering is going on.


Im yet to find a decent UEI and FST. Ive had complet garbage....took up to 2 grams to feel anything and had the typical kratom shakes /wobbles...So I dont think these product were real UEI. ...Ive been dying to try it and cannot find a good vendor I guess....

 

[《Plasticity》]

There are several "full-spectrum" extracts on the market, so it's not like all extracts fall into the category of products that provide a rather hollowed experience. I personally don't bother much with them because real UEI just always seems more worth it IMO, it feels like a speedy, but clean full agonist opioid. IME these adulterated extracts can hold there own as well, though I would agree that adding some plain leaf makes for a more whole experience.

Nowadays though, I can't... my body has physically started to reject kratom. After the come-up I start shaking, get incredibly anxious, skin burns up etc... basically a bunch of unpleasant stuff. I've had to resort to using only UEI because it's all my body can tolerate, though I only use it about once a week or whenever I'm coming down from a psychedelic or empathogen.

It's weird, it's the reason I quit kratom... out of nowher kratom started really fucking with me so I had to drop it altogether. Even though I've been off for months I still can't tolerate more than one dose. It's gotta be those stimulant alkaloids .

Anyways, I'm getting off topic. I will say that what you took doesn't sound like UEI al-laddin. I've got nothing but typical pure opioid effects and with my low tolerance 1-1.2g gets me high as a kite for hours. I love the stuff, but if I was actually able to tolerate kratom I would use UEI more infrequently. You live outside the US right? All vendors I've seen who carry legit UEI are US only, maybe the stuff is just really scarce, or even non-existant overseas.

 

[al-laddin]

There are several "full-spectrum" extracts on the market, so it's not like all extracts fall into the category of products that provide a rather hollowed experience. I personally don't bother much with them because real UEI just always seems more worth it IMO, it feels like a speedy, but clean full agonist opioid.

GOD!! Ive bought UEI from reputable vendors a half dozen times and I have NEVER experienced this and that's exactly what Im looking for ....for an occasional treat. Ive heard people over on opiophile with IV tolerances say that this UEI was ther new DOC.....no shit!! Someones gotta have the real stuff....when I say Ive used reutable vendors , Im talking about highly rated highly recommended aficionado level vendors.....what gives???? Ill have one guy say "oh, such and such has the REAL UEI" and then Ill buy and be disappointed. Ill tell another kratom user my experience and they say "oh no!!! MAN! don't buy from such and such, go with such and such for REEEEALLL UEI"...and its just me chasing my fucking tail and I don't have a very high tolerance...I don't know whats going on

No captain, Im in the US....I just have poor grammar LOL...In fact Im in the same state as you.

 

[liftedgift]

There are several "full-spectrum" extracts on the market, so it's not like all extracts fall into the category of products that provide a rather hollowed experience. I personally don't bother much with them because real UEI just always seems more worth it IMO, it feels like a speedy, but clean full agonist opioid. IME these adulterated extracts can hold there own as well, though I would agree that adding some plain leaf makes for a more whole experience.

Nowadays though, I can't... my body has physically started to reject kratom. After the come-up I start shaking, get incredibly anxious, skin burns up etc... basically a bunch of unpleasant stuff. I've had to resort to using only UEI because it's all my body can tolerate, though I only use it about once a week or whenever I'm coming down from a psychedelic or empathogen.

It's weird, it's the reason I quit kratom... out of nowher kratom started really fucking with me so I had to drop it altogether. Even though I've been off for months I still can't tolerate more than one dose. It's gotta be those stimulant alkaloids .

Anyways, I'm getting off topic. I will say that what you took doesn't sound like UEI al-laddin. I've got nothing but typical pure opioid effects and with my low tolerance 1-1.2g gets me high as a kite for hours. I love the stuff, but if I was actually able to tolerate kratom I would use UEI more infrequently. You live outside the US right? All vendors I've seen who carry legit UEI are US only, maybe the stuff is just really scarce, or even non-existant overseas.

I would get red faced and shakes if I took too much plain leaf. It almost seemed to cause anxiety at times.

 

[《Plasticity》]

I would get red faced and shakes if I took too much plain leaf. It almost seemed to cause anxiety at times.

Sadly, that's not it . Regardless of the dose, I just can't tolerate the the shit anymore. Well it did get a little better, I can get away with one, maybe two and then I gotta take a week or two break or it comes back.

It starts out nice during the come-up then I'm immediately hit with panic, flushing, sweatiness, an extreme crawling sensation amongst a whole array of other symptoms. It got so intense that I would have rather been in full blown withdrawal than take another dose, even maintanance doses felt horrible...hence why I just said fuck it and quit.

I noticed this started happening a little while after I got into etizolam, and what's funny is that during the first month and a half of etizolam withdrawal I developed a similar intolerance to a wide variety of other drugs so I'm starting to think etiz had something to do with it... I mean I tolerated fine for over 3.5 years before it started to turn on me, whatever...idk.

Now that my etiz withdrawal is closing up I may be able to tolerate kratom again, but I sure as hell ain't gonna find out. The last thing I want is for kratom to turn on ke again after dependancy sets in. It does feel good to be dependance free, so I guess that's a plus

 

[liftedgift]

Yeah that sounds very strange. I take etizolam weekly now but I never did while I was taking kratom so I'm not sure how they react to each other. But are you saying that the etizolam WD might have caused it? You took the two together for awhile right?

 

[al-laddin]

Its weird, sounds like what heappens when they give naltrexone to an opiod dependant person. Antagonists at work?

 

[《Plasticity》]

It was incredibly weird... and equally as shitty . Yes I used them together, what happened was I was using kratom for years, starting taking etizolam at what I though was a decent enough schedule to keep from dependancy (2x a week, rarely 3x for three weeks each month), 3-4 months later kratom started causing this, I quit kratom and kept using etizolam at the same pace for another month or two, slipped up and used etiz 1 week straight, quit, and was sent into the shitty day to day torture thais is etizolam withdrawal for about two months.

Wasn't strain related either, I cycled through about 10 or so strains before giving up on kratom and they all had this effect. Oh and another thing, I only noticed rebound effects for a few days each break off etiz until I used that week straight, so I'm not even sure if I was fully dependant on etiz during the time kratom started acting up, I think I was...but just on the border of full blown dependancy.

As I said though, I noticed the same symptoms when I would take all sorts of drugs, whether it be gabapentin, 4-fa, phenibut among countless others... only thing I could tolerate was cannabis. Within the last two weeks this has reversed though, I even took 6-apdb last week which if your not familiar with it's an MDA analogue that can be quite a load on the body and I was fine. I would've been destroyed physically if I were to attempt this while that intolerance was still in effect.

Its weird, sounds like what heappens when they give naltrexone to an opiod dependant person. Antagonists at work?

As much as I would like to believe this, Corynantheidine is present in miniscule amounts, either 1% or 5% of total alkaloid content, can't quite remember. It would have to be a potent antagonist to have any negligable effect, but unfortunately I haven't seen any info on the potency so I have nothing to work with.

I would think that if it were indeed potent enough to have an effect it would overide the mu agonism, idk. Somehow I doubt it's the antagonist though, I'm thinking it's the adrenergics and my intolerance caused by etizolam withdrawal. I couldn't even eat soy based products in etiz withdrawal, it may me extremely sensitive to everything and it was a a terrible feeling. I guess in a way it feel like opioid withdrawal to an extent, but also way different. There were also a handful of symptoms that I didn't get from kratom withdrawal, and it actually felt worse than acute withdrawal. I got a similar reaction to taking 4-fa in etiz withdrawal.

 

[al-laddin]

Ya know, I wouldn't believ that the antagonists in kratom where effective if it weren't for the fact that my tolerance to kratom only slightly fluctuates. Granted its not as euphoric as it was when I first used it but if I were to use oxy at the frequency I use kratom ..within a week I would have to more than double my dose of oxy to achive anything close to the effects I got in the beginning of the week. My dose with kratom has been 6 grams in the morning 4 in the afternoon and 3 at night for two years....only fluctuating within a grams range.

 

[《Plasticity》]

Yeah tolerance is definately slow building, well it was for maybe three years then I would have to take 1-2 week breaks every couple months because my tolerance would double (from 5-10g per dose). But then again I was dosing up to 3x a day and I was taking plenty of breaks before that and you know what they say, "every time you quit withdrawal gets worse"... same can be said for the time it takes for tolerance to rebuild, gets shorter and shorter.

I think the fact that mitragynine isn't a full agonist and that there is a ceiling to how euphoric kratom can get plays some roll in the slow builing of tolerance compared to opioids but I could be wrong, kratom is strange and theres so many alkaloids and possibility for synergy that I have no clue honestly. I know there's a calcium channel blocker present, don't those reduce the build of opiate tolerance? I'm quite sure they do, or have at least been explored for that purpose.

 

[al-laddin]

Hmm I have no idea about the channel blockers, but I do know that they reduce blood pressure which is obviously a good thing..but then again the yohimbine like alks must raise BP? So maybe they cancel each other out. I think Ive had ome odd overstimulated experiences from all these funky alks in kratom. Kratom acts like a natural Viagra to....makes me a bull in the sack lol

 

[《Plasticity》]

My blood pressure was definately lower when using kratom than it is now but I think that's due to the benzo withdrawal because I'm eating healthier than ever... and yeah, kratom made sex WAY better until, it killed my sex drive completely . Anyways, I think we derailed this thread enough lol. My bad OP, it's a bad habit of mine unfortunately.